DJI to restrict non-compliant drones at next software update

[Former Member]

Im really enjoying reading this thread and it's responses. It has brought out some really great and well thought out responses from many of our most notable member's insights and also newer members. The different opinions, conspiracy theories and right or wrong speculation, gives me so much more information to dwell on and try to understand. I have the feeling that this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[limbows]

I recently got an email from dji about this. And all this will take effect by the end of this week...

 

[Former Member]

The 1st point is right from what I get from this I don't agree with DJI handicapping my drone in any way, shape or form because I do not want to upgrade my MP and sign into my DJI account and agreed to their new terms of service. I would not have got the MP if this was what they were going to do with it. Its like a phone I paid for and its mine and if I want to jail break it I can. It clearly states if you do not upgrade you won't be able to use the live feed and they limit how far away it will fly. I do not want to upgrade!

I compare your analogy to someone buying a Mavic and owning a Galaxy S7 to fly it. Out of nowhere, DJI takes the S7 off it's compatibility list. So what are your options? Buy a new phone? Sell the drone? I had to sell a perfectly good S5 Active because it wasn't on their list of approved devices any more. Thats long since been forgiven but not forgotten. It's the same drone, but phone didnt work because of firmware updates.

We endure DJI's constant updating of firmware, horrible customer service, and delays because we love our DJI products. Once we have a full grasp of the widespread effect this will have on all of us, hopefully things will calm down a little bit, and the facts will be evident as to the restrictions DJI is imposing on us.

In the mean time, Im going to be flying as much as possible before the forced update.

 

[Rabman]

I am really surprised at the hostility one or two people have shown to Adiru. He is only trying to help out people and yet he is getting grief from a few people on the forum.

Let me tell you a little story. Ironically it happened two months ago to the day when I made a post and asked the following question:

_______________________
I heard a rumor that Go4.05 has a new feature in it that binds the the Sim Chips phone number to the Mavic.
Supposedly if you take out the Sim the Mavic works fine but if you change the SIM to a new number you will get some sort of error that requires some kind of re authentication. Can anyone test this. My iPhone 6+ does not have a Sim in it.

I am really hoping this report is false.

Rob
-----------------------------------------

The link is here:
Can anyone test a mobile device with 2 different SIM chips on the Mavic


I left out details in this post because I was afraid people would label me a paranoid nut job like they are doing to Adiru.

So now that the subject has come full circle let me tell you what I left out.

I had picked up this info from an exchange between a group of Chinese DJI Beta testers. I was using google to translate so it was not very clear exactly what they were saying but I did get enough to know that they were complaining that the latest Beta version they were testing required a SIM Chip to be in whatever device they were using and that the device was broadcasting their flight telemetry info directly to DJI.

One guy was complaining that his privacy was being invaded and another complained that his data plan was being eaten up and another was saying he was upset that he had to buy a new device that used a Sim card.

They also mentioned that their telephone numbers were on record with DJI's servers and that they tried changing the Sim cards, but when they did the Mavic would no longer fly. One guy was trying to comfort the guy complaining about his data being used up by saying that he was able to start the Mavic and then remove the Sim card and it still flew. A loophole which might have been intentional or was fixed in the next version.

Now I might have gotten the versions they were using mixed up and there is no way to be certain when this code was added but I do know that whatever was in Beta tests two months ago had the code in it.

I know many of you will sit back in comfort thinking that this is only a problem for the Chinese pilots. The fact is that this code is in every version that has been released in the last 6 weeks. That is the reason that I started posting seven weeks ago about trying to backup the .400 firmware and IOS app and why I was obsessed with staying on my old version.

As it stands DJI is just one button press from implementing this feature in any country they want to.

My assumption based on current events is that they are worried about legal problems that may develop if they force Sim chip use or monitor and shutdown a drone from a user in the wrong country. So they are trying to gather an exact Geo location that is given and approved by the owner of the drone. This would exonerating them in a court of law should this happen.

Any pilot in America or the EU can sit back and stick your head in the sand, but all the evidence to date seems to point to the fact that DJI is putting into place a flight monitoring system that can be activated should the laws in your country require it.

If you think about it, this is a request that Homeland security could fast track through congress very quickly. And just in case DJI was thinking that they are two steps ahead of the average person, I think I already know why your so willing to do this DJI. If the USA requires this it would mean that all other drone companies are blindsided and DJI in effect would be the only company that would have drones that can be legally sold in the USA.

As for the blame game that will come. DJI will say that they are sorry, but due to US law you are now required to use a device that has a SIM chip in it with a data plan. And for those that are going to ask what about me! I don't have cell reception where I fly! Maybe that is why the Chinese guy was able to fly without a Sim Chip in it. I would bet that the system will use the DAT file and allow you to fly for maybe a day or two before it will shutdown and require a sync with the DJI server.

Rob

I think this is *highly* unlikely. Tying the DJI Go App and SDK to a particular device based on SIM card would be extremely draconian and would cripple their market here in North America (phone or device with data plan required to use? No thanks.) Not to mention, flight telemetry being sent back to DJI would raise some considerable privacy concerns as you point out, and there would need to be a method to opt out.

 

[Robbyg]

I don't know why you think your post is comparable to adiru's. All you did was ask a question and express some opinions. There's no problem with that. The problem is when someone asserts something to be true which clearly isn't, and when you call them out on it they either ignore you and continue to make the assertion or they deflect.

Adiru has made multiple posts on multiple forums making 2 unsupported claims. The first is that unless you downgrade to an earlier firmware version your mavic will be severely restricted. Even in DJI's own communications it's clear that that's not the case. If however you update the firmware version but fail to re-activate, or you update the app and fail to follow through with updating the firmware and re-activating, then there will be restrictions. When he was called out on this he even went so far as to claim that DJI has installed a kill switch on all versions of the firmware, so that even if you don't update the app or firmware, eventually after a certain period of time the firmware will expire and you will be forced to update it. But wait, there's more. He also claimed that it wouldn't be enough to roll back the date on your phone to try and fool the mavic and delay the kill switch because the mavic uses GPS signals to check the date and time. All of this is pure imagination on his part, but he goes around spreading this stuff to scare people.

The second fictional claim he's made is that the reason behind the latest update is so that DJI can make your drone trackable by radio signal, and that everyone, even your neighbors, will be able to identify your drone by radio signal when it's flying. This is also pure fantasy, all dreamed up from a white paper he found which explores a far less fanciful version of this idea. It is NOT a paper that reveals any hidden reason behind the latest firmware update.

Can we please stop talking about this now?

Why should we stop talking about it?

Adiru is perfectly correct when he says you are further restricted with newer updates. I am running .0400 and have only encountered an NFZ message when I turned on my Mavic as a test near to a Major Airport. The moment I went to .0500 I had lots of NFZ messages even when I was not close to anything listed on a NFZ map. This is not something new, it is a well documented fact by numerous pilots. The NFZ list is growing with each update, that is another fact and the accuracy of it seems to decrease as DJI frantically adds new and unverified locations.

I would also point out that you can add me into the Nut camp of people that thinks a Kill switch is already installed in the existing firmware. Companies do not tell you in advance that they are going to release an update that will make your product more restricted! Who would be that stupid? They only tell you after they know a high percentage of their customers have already installed a version that has a method to force an upgrade should it become necessary.

If your expecting to jump up and down and tell me "I told you so" a few weeks from now, you will be wasting your time. Whatever they installed will not be activated until a law is passed in your Geo region that requires the device to be tracked. So yes you might be fine not upgrading from .0700 for the next month or even a year, but if a law is passed in the USA requiring monitoring I will bet good money that if you turn on any kind of Data on your device you will find that your locked and required to login and get the latest updates. I suspect people who are running older versions will just get the usual click bait that you need to update. Then you just ignore it and fly.

I am also puzzled by your statement that GPS time is some sort of myth. One of the features of GPS is to transmit very accurate UTC time. It would be absolutely shocking if DJI was not already using it for all sorts of things in the Mavic.

I think Adiru idea of tracking via radio signal as you said is based purely on the DJI documents. It probably was an idea at one point but all the statements I have seen from Chinese Beta testers indicate that they are using the internet to transmit the data via cell service.

Rob

 

[Former Member]

Perhaps this the brainchild of a diabolical Chinese company to gather as much data about the locations and details of users lives, details of landscapes and other key data to be used for some other purpose? Or are we blowing this all out of proportion?

I think you might be on to something there... Fred Wang has a little more hair though.

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[Former Member]

One day we will have a couple thousand fly aways only to realize a couple days later they were really just gathering intelligence for the invasion . Perfect Trojan horse maybe ?

That would make Pearl Harbor look like a picnic.

 

[Former Member]

Problem is DJI could strongarm litchi, something like if you don't force update your Litchi apps to comply with our standards, we'll stop letting you access to our SDK.

I dont think there would be any love lost between the 2 companies. Litchi already has their hands full trying to keep up with DJI's incessant firmware updates.

 

[MrMavic]

I don't have time to read this entire confusing thread, and I bet I'm not the only one. So in simple terms, what are we up against? We will all have to update eventually or lose our distance past 50 meters, right? So if we do update, nothing much will change? Someone just put it in a nutshell for those of us that do not have 2 hours to read all this.

 

[Former Member]

I concur, my legal analysis
Does anyone can find post with link to screenshot DJI legal stating upgrade optional and that suasne

It is one thing to impose whatever draconian rules they wish on brand new Mavic's being sold, pre-activation. But to require or otherwise force a re-activation and update/etc retroactively on old units already sold and activated and flying or else face having a severely locked down and handicapped Mavic will most definitely expose DJI to the possibility of a class action.

Not sure if DJI customers could muster up enough plaintiffs to bring forward a class action suit about this one. Never saw a class action suit about the massive Mavic delays, and that one was bordering on criminal conversion by theft on DJI's part. Better path would be an injunction to stop this update from happening, but the fact that it's going to be happening this week, would be expensive, time consuming, and of limited value once we have all been forced to update to the new SW and FW, not sure who it would benefit. A tiger never changes his stripes, especially a market king such as DJI.

 

[Robbyg]

I think this is *highly* unlikely. Tying the DJI Go App and SDK to a particular device based on SIM card would be extremely draconian and would cripple their market here in North America (phone or device with data plan required to use? No thanks.) Not to mention, flight telemetry being sent back to DJI would raise some considerable privacy concerns as you point out, and there would need to be a method to opt out.

Whats so unusual about it?
When I changed my Sim card in my phone I had to create a new Whatsapp account. DJI will say if you want to change your Sim card just login to their servers and request a change of telephone number.

What are you going to do? When you consider what I am saying keep in mind that at that point in time any drone sold in your country will have the same limitations by law. The problem I think a lot of people are having a hard time grasping, is the time line. DJI seems to be putting this in place very slowly, but most people are expecting come the 24th some sort of explosive event is going to happen. NO! The 24th is just a larger move in a plan that has many more moves to be fully implemented.

Look to see what is happening to the Chinese pilots and I think you will get an idea of what the future holds. Just because China is a communist country does not make them special in this regard. If anything China was more open to drones than most countries and it's only in the last several months that they have cracked down. Canada by far is a worst place in terms of drone laws and who knows when America will follow.

Rob

 

[Former Member]

Yes, but Mavic was never pitched as "drone rental as a service"
DJI also never stated to prospective customers that DJI Go app would be a requirement to fly. In fact in all its advertising and press it said that customers can fly with only the remote controller if they wished.

And customers can also eliminate the controller altogether and fly by flipping the wifi switch and using your device to fly it.

As in most software cases, you dont own the software, you only own the license to use it.

 

[Former Member]

Whats so unusual about it?
When I changed my Sim card in my phone I had to create a new Whatsapp account. DJI will say if you want to change your Sim card just login to their servers and request a change of telephone number.

What are you going to do? When you consider what I am saying keep in mind that at that point in time any drone sold in your country will have the same limitations by law. The problem I think a lot of people are having a hard time grasping, is the time line. DJI seems to be putting this in place very slowly, but most people are expecting come the 24th some sort of explosive event is going to happen. NO! The 24th is just a larger move in a plan that has many more moves to be fully implemented.

Look to see what is happening to the Chinese pilots and I think you will get an idea of what the future holds. Just because China is a communist country does not make them special in this regard. If anything China was more open to drones than most countries and it's only in the last several months that they have cracked down. Canada by far is a worst place in terms of drone laws and who knows when America will follow.

Rob

The good news is that the FAA was denied the appeal to require all drones to be registered. That's a good starting point and I think it was helped by the lobby and testimony from the Academy of Model Aeronautics here in the USA.

 

[Former Member]

But like I said the burden of the fallout should not be subsidized by the end users at the consumer's expense.
Either DJI does appropriate grandfathering in or they give option for those not accepting the new Terms to have their Mavic refunded.A buyback if you will, like how software says if you don't accept the EULA, you can return it for a refund prior to opening said software package. Mavic's already activated should not be forced to be re-activated to accept "new terms" unless DJI gives users who do not consent a way out, such as their money back.

But what they are trying to get away with is very shady business practices. Potentially unlawful.

In DJI's convoluted mind, if enough people came forward and complained, they would probably offer us $50 off the purchase of a new Mavic that already has the most recent firmware installed, and will make you download the latest restrictive DJI Go app.

DJI refuses to take culpability for any of their errors, whether accidental or intentional.

 

[skiddyfisk]

I've been using a firewall app to cut off apps from internet access that don't need it. Time to add anything DJI to the list!

I have no real issues with the drone not flying where it legally can't, or it being traceable back to me, but the possibility of false positives and DJI's track record is of concern to me.

My first drone was a cheap used Phantom - cheap because an official DJI firmware update straight up fried the camera and they refused to make any attempt at fixing it for the previous owner. For that reason, under no circumstances will I be updating any DJI product's firmware until it's been out and stable for a LONG time. This company absolutely cannot be trusted to be there for a customer when their own software damages their expensive device.

 

[Robbyg]

Not sure if DJI customers could muster up enough plaintiffs to bring forward a class action suit about this one. Never saw a class action suit about the massive Mavic delays, and that one was bordering on criminal conversion by theft on DJI's part. Better path would be an injunction to stop this update from happening, but the fact that it's going to be happening this week, would be expensive, time consuming, and of limited value once we have all been forced to update to the new SW and FW, not sure who it would benefit. A tiger never changes his stripes, especially a market king such as DJI.

Thunderdrones I do not think we will be forced to update.
I believe DJI when they say it's voluntary (for now).

A typical company strategy is to first let the 50% of the eager beavers go ahead and do it on their own in order to download some Pop bang new gee wiz feature! Fixed wing is already used, so look out for some other new feature to be announced tomorrow to start sucking in the masses.

They will then keep offering more "improvements" over the next few months, all designed to break the will of another 40% of the user base. Then when they only have 10% of the people remaining they will make a move.

Rob

 

[Former Member]

Thunderdrones I do not think we will be forced to update.
I believe DJI when they say it's voluntary (for now).

A typical company strategy is to first let the 50% of the eager beavers go ahead and do it on their own in order to download some Pop bang new gee wiz feature! Fixed wing is already used, so look out for some other new feature to be announced tomorrow to start sucking in the masses.

They will then keep offering more "improvements" over the next few months, all designed to break the will of another 40% of the user base. Then when they only have 10% of the people remaining they will make a move.

Rob

Rob,

Can you help me navigate my way around this statement from DJI? It seems like they are forcing users to update, or be restricted, no matter how many times I read it. I fix alot of Mavics, and always try to install the latest FW before sending it back to the customer. For my future repairs, and in order to give the customer the benefit of the latest firmware, will he need to update his device to make it compatible with the expected new firmware release? I usually use one of my devices to perform the repair, not sure how this will affect using my phone and sim to fix someones drone.

"If this activation process is not performed, the aircraft will not have access to the correct geospatial information and flight functions for that region, and its operations will be restricted if you update the upcoming firmware: Live camera streaming will be disabled, and flight will be limited to a 50-meter (164-foot) radius up to 30 meters (98 feet) high."

 

[Former Member]

And just how do you expect a class action suit to proceed against a company based in China? Good luck with that....

They have a corporate office and service of process address in Carson Ca, (soon to be Cerritos)

 

[Nightowl702]

I could be completely missing something here but wont your Mavic only be locked down IF YOU UPDATE and not re activate? I still have not seen anything that says your drone will be locked down If you don't update. The way I see it: No update, no need to re activate, no problems. JUST DON'T UPDATE THE APP!!! In addition with the timing of Dji pulling the .400 firmware makes me think the new version of the app wont work with it so that is another reason not to update.

 

[Smokey5159]

Thunderdrones I do not think we will be forced to update.
I believe DJI when they say it's voluntary (for now).

A typical company strategy is to first let the 50% of the eager beavers go ahead and do it on their own in order to download some Pop bang new gee wiz feature! Fixed wing is already used, so look out for some other new feature to be announced tomorrow to start sucking in the masses.

They will then keep offering more "improvements" over the next few months, all designed to break the will of another 40% of the user base. Then when they only have 10% of the people remaining they will make a move.

Rob

Hey there Rob,
Thanks for your input. I just can't help feeling that there is a limit to what DJI can "do" to those 'non-conforming pilots'. I still have my Mavic on .400, my app on .4 versions - and I always fly in airplane mode. I also disable the Go4 app after use (Android) whilst still in airplane mode, and I have a Firewall app that blocks all data in and out from whatever app I delegate. Interesting when I checked on the DJI app just how many times (100's) it tried to log into China. Guess what I'm trying to suggest is - the Mavic/RC and app realistically are never capable of knowing anything other than what's currently programed within when they are effectively severed from the Internet. I have not received any prompt through the app. I've reinstalled the .4 app after deleting all the previous files, engaged the firewall, and after disabling the app after use there have been no attempts to contact China - and I'm happy enough to continue this way with my Mavic oblivious to the outside world.
Just my thoughts.
Smokey