End of the road for Minis in India

[atsphenomenon]

It's really frustrating to be taken thru the draconian laws here. I've been using a mini for about a year now and while I've had my share of ups and downs with the mini, there's been an updated version of dji fly that's been pushed. What that does, is essentially limit the height at 15m for the mini. Yup, the app itself doesn't let you go above that and cites the DGCA regulations as the bottleneck. The only way around, currently, is to downgrade the app but it's only about time before that also implements this limitation.
I had anyway ordered a mini2 wanting to experience the better transmission. But with the necessity to use the new fly app, I'm assuming mini 2 would also be limited to 15m height.

Could anyone using litchi throw light on this - would the 15m restriction be bypassed if using litchi? In which case, I'd rather cancel plans for the mini2 and stick around with mini using litchi.

PS : I'm aware of the DGCA regulations around 15m for the nano category drones - but my view here is that responsible flyers should get the workaround atleast till the time laws change.

 

[Dbez1]

Sorry about your restrictions. I hope laws relax in the future for you.

 

[karlblessing]

Could anyone using litchi throw light on this - would the 15m restriction be bypassed if using litchi? In which case, I'd rather cancel plans for the mini2 and stick around with mini using litchi.

Litchi won't even do authorizations (you have to unlock in the DJI Fly app and then close and go back to Litchi if there's a restriction). And since they're using their SDK in the beta version that supports the Mini, then the same restrictions are going to be on Litchi as well.

Also, Litchi does not currently support the Mini 2 (and likewise not the Mavic Air 2 either yet). But if they did, as an officially supported app, they're not going to override a restriction DJI placed to comply with a region's laws. Your best bet would be like if someone were able to unlock it in something like dronehack etc.

Another interesting restriction I heard from another person living in India was that while you can save video to your phone (via the video cache), it won't allow the same for photos. Photos have to come off the drone strictly, a cached copy of it during flight is not allowed.

 

[DanMan32]

I don't think OP's situation is authorization, but rather the app not allowing the maximum height setting to be set above 15m. Authorization has to do with geofencing using the FlyZone database, which is handled by the combination of the firmware on the AC and the app. A downgrade of the app wouldn't get around a flyzone restriction since the AC firmware would still apply the restriction. If a downgrade of the app does get around this, then Litchi probably won't have the limitation either.

I kind of get the regulation though. If you're going to be exempt from the usual regulations due to weight, then you shouldn't be able to go too high. 15m (about 45ft) does seem a bit low for a restriction even for a "toy" or RC drone though. 25 to 30m would be more reasonable and there should be a way to join in the regular regulations such as registration for more capable lightweights.

 

[groan]

Does DroneLink check in with DJI Fly?

 

[skunky1]

Get a Mavic pro and you can remove all NFZ restrictions and do an FCC boost

 

[PhilipSangtea]

Does the same restriction of 15m (50ft) apply to the Mavic Air 2 in India as it is also using the DJI Fly App?

 

[karlblessing]

Does the same restriction of 15m (50ft) apply to the Mavic Air 2 in India as it is also using the DJI Fly App?

It appears the restriction only applies to Nano Drones (under 250g). So drones under 250g don't need a license or permission to fly it, but are restricted to 15m.

The Mavic Air 2, isn't classified as a Nano drone, so it can fly above 15m, but needs a license and permission.

According to the new rules, you must obtain Permission before each flight through Digital Sky Platform. You also would need to inform the local police about your RPA flying activity ( Nano drones do not need to that ). Read the source links to get more info on the new 2020 Drone rules in India.

Digital Sky FAQ

Digital Sky

digitalsky.dgca.gov.in

Digital Sky Do's and Don'ts

Digital Sky

digitalsky.dgca.gov.in

PS: it would seem that DJI didn't have to force the drone to obey those rules and leave it up to the user to follow the laws, but it would have likely meant that DJI drones would be banned from being sold in India if they weren't “No Permission- No Take off” (NPNT) Compliant.

 

[atsphenomenon]

Litchi won't even do authorizations (you have to unlock in the DJI Fly app and then close and go back to Litchi if there's a restriction). And since they're using their SDK in the beta version that supports the Mini, then the same restrictions are going to be on Litchi as well.

Also, Litchi does not currently support the Mini 2 (and likewise not the Mavic Air 2 either yet). But if they did, as an officially supported app, they're not going to override a restriction DJI placed to comply with a region's laws. Your best bet would be like if someone were able to unlock it in something like dronehack etc.

Another interesting restriction I heard from another person living in India was that while you can save video to your phone (via the video cache), it won't allow the same for photos. Photos have to come off the drone strictly, a cached copy of it during flight is not allowed.

Thanks Karl. Though it's a bummer - was hoping that litchi would work. But your point is valid, it uses the dji ask afterall. Sigh.

And you're right on the photos too. This used to work when I got the mini last December up until about mid April/May this year I guess. After that, cached photos haven't been available. Though I never knew this was deliberate. I assumed this was a bug, but never cared to look for it since it didn't bother me.

 

[atsphenomenon]

Does DroneLink check in with DJI Fly?

Anyone using DroneLink could throw some light on this?

 

[karlblessing]

Does the same restriction of 15m (50ft) apply to the Mavic Air 2 in India as it is also using the DJI Fly App?

Looking at their FAQ I found this



The Air 2 is a Micro RPA, above 250g but less than 2kg. It's limited to 200 feet (60m).

 

[atsphenomenon]

It appears the restriction only applies to Nano Drones (under 250g). So drones under 250g don't need a license or permission to fly it, but are restricted to 15m.

The Mavic Air 2, isn't classified as a Nano drone, so it can fly above 15m, but needs a license and permission.


Digital Sky FAQ

Digital Sky

digitalsky.dgca.gov.in

Digital Sky Do's and Don'ts

Digital Sky

digitalsky.dgca.gov.in

PS: it would seem that DJI didn't have to force the drone to obey those rules and leave it up to the user to follow the laws, but it would have likely meant that DJI drones would be banned from being sold in India if they weren't “No Permission- No Take off” (NPNT) Compliant.

That's correct. I don't particularly mind getting a license, provided it was user friendly. As of the current regulations, even after getting a license, one needs to ask for permission to fly - before every single flight! And that can't even be done realtime, it needs the user to ask for it atleast 24 hours in advance.
Bottomline - I need a workaround. Don't see things changing organically. I'm also wanting to move to a mini2. Though it will definitely come with the updated fly app. Any ideas - either validation on the new fly app - that it doesn't impose this restriction on the mini2 yet (very unlikely). Or a way around - Litchi type something, dronelink, reliable custom firmwares, or any such work around?

Cheers,
Ats

 

[Vaideeshwar]

Is the 15m ceiling set for nano drone purchased within India? Would somebody with an imported model also have this height limit when they fly it in the country?

 

[karlblessing]

Is the 15m ceiling set for nano drone purchased within India? Would somebody with an imported model also have this height limit when they fly it in the country?

It's set in the app. So even if you imported it or previously owned it before the new rules. It would be applied in the app.

 

[Vaideeshwar]

It's set in the app. So even if you imported it or previously owned it before the new rules. It would be applied in the app.

Dang it! I sold my MA2 and bought the Mini2 specifically for an upcoming trip to India! I do see a solution to this problem- downgrading the app to the previous version. I wish DJI doesn't disable support for that version!

 

[atsphenomenon]

Dang it! I sold my MA2 and bought the Mini2 specifically for an upcoming trip to India! I do see a solution to this problem- downgrading the app to the previous version. I wish DJI doesn't disable support for that version!

Karl is right. Mine's an imported version. The thing with mini2 is that the fly app needs to be updated to the version that supports mini2, which I'm guessing has the 15m restriction. Though, please do keep us updated. If yours works on the old app, that'd be some respite and would help me take the plunge to the mini2.

 

[Vaideeshwar]

Karl is right. Mine's an imported version. The thing with mini2 is that the fly app needs to be updated to the version that supports mini2, which I'm guessing has the 15m restriction. Though, please do keep us updated. If yours works on the old app, that'd be some respite and would help me take the plunge to the mini2.

I can just downgrade right now and let you know if I am able to fly my Mini2. My guess behind why DJI is trying to enforce this restriction on the nano drones is that people will now start looking for ways to fly their more expensive models legally in India (= DGCA laxes its ridiculous restrictions like NPNT) so they can slowly penetrate the Indian market (a HUGE market potentially).

 

[atsphenomenon]

I can just downgrade right now and let you know if I am able to fly my Mini2. My guess behind why DJI is trying to enforce this restriction on the nano drones is that people will now start looking for ways to fly their more expensive models legally in India (= DGCA laxes its ridiculous restrictions like NPNT) so they can slowly penetrate the Indian market (a HUGE market potentially).

Not sure on why dji made the move. They've clearly stated on the website that they would never officially launch in india till the time requirements like npnt are done away with. My guess is it's just the DGCA pushing out notices to dji (the recent ban on 'chinese' apps like tiktok and pubg doesn't help either).

Would be a great great help if you could downgrade the app and check if it supports mini2. I'm on v1.1.10 which definitely doesn't implement the 15m restriction. If it supports the mini2, there'll be interim relief, atleast.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

IThe only way around, currently, is to downgrade the app but it's only about time before that also implements this limitation.

How can that be? Surely if you roll back to an unrestricted but functional app and block updates for all the equipment nothing is going to change?

 

[karlblessing]

How can that be? Surely if you roll back to an unrestricted but functional app and block updates for all the equipment nothing is going to change?

Two ways about it. Enforcing via firmware (so all new copies or people who upgraded), or by removing the previous version of the app from being able to download for certain devices.

Just a matter of whether or not DJI wants to inconvenience their international customer base in order to continue to be able to sell their products in India. I'm not sure how big a market share India is of their drone, but probably big enough that they would rather enforce compliance at the hardware/software level than to just simply not be sold there.