EU - anyone heard an update on when we get the first Class 1 drone?

[JoshC]

From what I know, so far while EASA has released general guidelines for the various drone classes, so far they have not released the final rules on what a drone OEM needs to do to comply with Class 1, Class 2 rules etc.

According to their website, 'Drones with a class identification label (i.e. C0, C1, C2, C3, C4) are expected to become commercially available by 2022' .

For drone pilots that follow the rules, this is going to be a huge deal as it opens up a whole new world of drones that can be flown in the A1 category, as well as reducing the potential distance requirements for uninvolved people from 50m to as little as 5m in the A2 class.

However the question is obviously 'when', and additionally whether drones on the market now will get retroactive classification, and whether existing drones will need to be sent to the manufacturer physically for certifcation.

No way I am buying the M3 until there's more clarity on this.

 

[old man mavic]

@JoshC with all that is going on in this world of ours
i think that governments around the world ,will be putting C class drones very near the bottom of their to do lists
there will come a point when the powers that be, and the drone manufacturers do get together, and produce drones that meet the requirements
but i dont think its going to happen anytime soon

 

[paul09]

@JoshC with all that is going on in this world of ours
i think that governments around the world ,will be putting C class drones very near the bottom of their to do lists
there will come a point when the powers that be, and the drone manufacturers do get together, and produce drones that meet the requirements
but i dont think its going to happen anytime soon

Do you think they will extend the 1st Jan 2023 date by another year so we can keep flying as we are until they sort the C class drones out

 

[JoshC]

@JoshC with all that is going on in this world of ours
i think that governments around the world ,will be putting C class drones very near the bottom of their to do lists
there will come a point when the powers that be, and the drone manufacturers do get together, and produce drones that meet the requirements
but i dont think its going to happen anytime soon

this would be 'logical' except that there is an entire wing within the European Union Aviation Safety Agency whose job is to do precisely this

 

[Ralph thompson]

We've had a similar system in Canada for 2 years and it works beautifully. Drones must be registered. My I1P, M2P and M2ED are all approved to fly if controlled airspace near airports (Class C,D,E Airspace) & within 5 meters of people not involved in the Op, provided the operator has an Advanced license (a written test and flight test). The air navigation service provider has an App in which we must register each flight in controlled airspace. It takes a couple of mins to register a flight. With Basic license or unapproved drone you must remain in Class G airspace. All this for drones 250grams or heavier

 

[old man mavic]

@JoshC first off the drone makers will have to supply versions of their drones to the various countries for them to test them, and see if they meet the requirements of the C rating then and only then will licences be granted for the supply of those drones ,in the UK it will be a joint effort between the CAA and DoT to do the testing and approve a drone ,and at the moment there has not been such a government body set up to do the testing and certification in the UK,its quite possible that there could be an extension to the transitional period beyond the end of 2022 if there is a delay in the testing and certifying procedures being implemented

 

[Ralph thompson]

In Canada the manufacturer just has to make a declaration of manufacturing standards as stated in the Canadian regs.

 

[old man mavic]

there seems to be some confusion as to what the new C classification for drones actually means
its all based on the risk the drone poses if it hits a persons head ,so to enable the drone to meet the c classification it will have to have an external switch on the RC to put it in the low speed mode that will be required for flying very close to uninvolved people this will also most likely involve having prop guards fitted as well once the drone weighs more than the 250 g threshold
but could even include under 250g drones ,these requirements have nothing to do with where the drone may or may not be allowed to fly in the NAS ,in the UK it will also require the pilot to have the A2 C of C certificate to be able to fly A2 class drones in the open category,it will not be just a case of the manufacturers providing written evidence of what the drone can do ,they will have to provide actual drones so that they can be tested ,similar to crash testing for vehicles

 

[Ralph thompson]

Interesting, because I’m not aware of any cases in Canada where someone was injured by a drone flying into them. For most drones you must maintain 5 meters distance. Our category that allows flying over people not part of the operation is being met some by attaching a parachute which for me seems bizarre. We’ve all seen the famous wedding where the drone operator flow an Inspire straight into the face of the bride, I think that was in the US. The low speed switch (tripod mode on the M2P) seems like a good idea.

 

[old man mavic]

@Ralph thompson ,all these extra rules and regs are the governments around the world trying to play catch up, because of a few people who have allegedly flown their drones in an unsafe manner ,and because they are trying to appease those people who see drones as a threat to life and limb ,and also their privacy
i agree about the tripod mode on my MPP it flies extremely slowly in all orientations
and would if tripod mode was being used with prop guards on fulfill the low speed requirement for close to people
but the new rules say that in order to achieve the very low speed, that it needs to be accessed by a switch on the RC ,not by selecting an icon on the screen as it is done now

 

[Ralph thompson]

On the M2P Tripod is one of the three modes on the mode switch, T, P, S on the smart controller

 

[old man mavic]

ok i do not have that drone myself,thanks for the info
of course its not just about speed its also the kinetic energy that is transferred to the persons head during impact time will tell what the final outcome will be,till then all we can do is carry on flying as we are now

 

[JoshC]

there seems to be some confusion as to what the new C classification for drones actually means
its all based on the risk the drone poses if it hits a persons head ,so to enable the drone to meet the c classification it will have to have an external switch on the RC to put it in the low speed mode that will be required for flying very close to uninvolved people this will also most likely involve having prop guards fitted as well once the drone weighs more than the 250 g threshold
but could even include under 250g drones ,these requirements have nothing to do with where the drone may or may not be allowed to fly in the NAS ,in the UK it will also require the pilot to have the A2 C of C certificate to be able to fly A2 class drones in the open category,it will not be just a case of the manufacturers providing written evidence of what the drone can do ,they will have to provide actual drones so that they can be tested ,similar to crash testing for vehicles

In relation to the EU, the problem is that the C class requirements haven't yet been defined by the regulator, so it's not possible for manufacturers to comply with rules that don't exist yet. I've seen some discussion that M3 drones that have already been sold might be able to get retroactively certified if the M3 gets a class certification, either by getting firmware or getting sent back to the manufacturer.

If fact it's likely that DJI are aiming for the C1 class certification to allow the Mavic 3 to be flown in the A1 class, by far the most permissive class, that's why they brought its weight under 900 grammes.

The C2 class, up to 4kg, would allow to be used in A2 sub category (along with pilot licence) in the EU. It's only the A2 class where low speed mode is required to fly closer to uninvolved persons.

 

[paul09]

In relation to the EU, the problem is that the C class requirements haven't yet been defined by the regulator, so it's not possible for manufacturers to comply with rules that don't exist yet. I've seen some discussion that M3 drones that have already been sold might be able to get retroactively certified if the M3 gets a class certification, either by getting firmware or getting sent back to the manufacturer.

If fact it's likely that DJI are aiming for the C1 class certification to allow the Mavic 3 to be flown in the A1 class, by far the most permissive class, that's why they brought its weight under 900 grammes.

The C2 class, up to 4kg, would allow to be used in A2 sub category (along with pilot licence) in the EU. It's only the A2 class where low speed mode is required to fly closer to uninvolved persons.

I don’t believe it will be possible for the Mavic 3 to be in the C1 class. its based on MTOM and not weight. I think the mini 3 will end up being a C1 drone because although it weighs under 250g the MTOM will be over 250g.

 

[JoshC]

I don’t believe it will be possible for the Mavic 3 to be in the C1 class. its based on MTOM and not weight. I think the mini 3 will end up being a C1 drone because although it weighs under 250g the MTOM will be over 250g.

I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion - the Mavic drones are not designed to carry a payload so MTOW and MTOM should be the same. If you stick a payload on, you'll get an error message (albeit one which you can manually over ride).

Already the Mini and Mini 2 drones can fly in A1 class anyway. Even with the idea that they have a MTOM greater than 250 grammes, A1 currently allows for drones up to 500gms, with the proviso that you need to do the A1/A3 certificate for drones in the 251-500g range.

 

[paul09]

I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion - the Mavic drones are not designed to carry a payload so MTOW and MTOM should be the same. If you stick a payload on, you'll get an error message (albeit one which you can manually over ride).

Already the Mini and Mini 2 drones can fly in A1 class anyway. Even with the idea that they have a MTOM greater than 250 grammes, A1 currently allows for drones up to 500gms, with the proviso that you need to do the A1/A3 certificate for drones in the 251-500g range.

Its easy to arrive at that conclusion.

Currently sub 250g drones can fly in the A1 as their weight is classed as flying weight. A new C class drone is based on MTOM. So, if the mini 3, for example is released with a C0 rating it will need to be sub 250g MTOM which means it cannot have a MTOM greater then 250g which currently on the Mavic mini 2 it does becasue it can carry prop guards for example which take it over 250g MTOM. Thats why I suspect the mini 3 could be a C1 as the MTOM is going to be greater than 250g.

Obviously that’s still in A1 but with no intentional overflight of people


This is stated on the CAP2012 from the CAA. It’s the main difference that’s is being overlooked between legacy drones and C marked drones.

 

[spudster]

Answers direct from EASA

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[old man mavic]

because this is a forum that covers the whole world ,and the fact that different country's have different rules on airspace classification,with regards to drone use
then we are always going to have different rules between country's
ours in the UK are different to those in Europe on some of the finer points

 

[paul09]

because this is a forum that covers the whole world ,and the fact that different country's have different rules on airspace classification,with regards to drone use
then we are always going to have different rules between country's
ours in the UK are different to those in Europe on some of the finer points

This is a very good point. I was talking about the UK rules so apologies if the other countries are slightly different.

 

[old man mavic]

@paul09 when we first left the EU we did adopt most of the EASA rules ,but since that time we have changed some aspects to suit the needs of the UK's airspace and as time goes on this process will probably continue to be the case