Regs changes in the UK - Nov update

[Cymru]

In theory it could be the drone would adjust pretty much instantly. And you're really not getting huge sudden wind shear at the altitudes and envelope a drone is flown in.
Basic fact remains the drone will maintain an actual speed over ground unless the wind strength overcomes its ability to adjust pitch further to do so.

 

[scro]

Given that the regs talk about maximum speed the max speed of the drone should be considered, not some intermediate speed where the drone has sufficient power reserve to overcome some degree of headwind. In my experience the MM can achieve a max air speed of around 13m/s, and subsequently a max ground speed of the same. As soon as there is any wind the max groundspeed when flying into the wind is reduced. When flying with the wind the max ground speed is still limited to around 13m/s.

These speeds are all in the horizontal plane, but the regs don't specify that the max speed is in the horizontal plane. It seems fair enough as the regs cover all drones, and some racing drones can achieve high speeds outwith just the horizontal plane. If you factor in the ability to climb/descend you can theoretically achieve higher air speeds with mavics, but in reality the vertical component is almost insignificant, compared to the horizontal. the MM can achieve 3m/s vertical ascent/descent. If combined with a fwd velocity of 13m/s this only gives a 0.3m/s increase in total speed. In reality you rarely achieve full fwd speed when climbing.

 

[dulcificum]

You can achieve much higher velocities by going high, the descending at max speed with a tailwind and killing the motors.

 

[Lastrexking]

Finally, a simplified summary of the new rules.

 

[scro]

You can achieve much higher velocities by going high, the descending at max speed with a tailwind and killing the motors.

True, but probably only once per drone ?

 

[dulcificum]

Finally, a simplified summary of the new rules.

Thanks for this.

(lol at the inversion of metric/imperial for the 120m rule)

 

[scro]

Finally, a simplified summary of the new rules.

Good summary, and I like the side by side comparison with old/new.

Am a little bit confused by the "remote pilot competence" line in the table. If you fly a Spark (ie >250g) in category A3 what demonstration of pilot competence is expected? CAP722 Ed8. only mentions DMARES online learning and possession of a Flyer ID. Neither of these really demonstrate competence as you can easily pass both without ever having flown a drone.

 

[Cymru]

As soon as there is any wind the max groundspeed when flying into the wind is reduced.

That isn't true.
Provided the pitch/power limits arent exceeded (ie wind isnt too strong) the speed remains identical as a factor of distance over time. It just means it works harder to maintain.
Ground speed only drops once the wind becomes too strong for the limits
On the mavic the flight control rules are *everything* maintains a constant GPS derived speed at all times until conditions reach a point where its impossible.

If you DO want to go faster with the wind, use ATTI mode where GPS limits are not observed.

 

[Cymru]

Good summary, and I like the side by side comparison with old/new.

Am a little bit confused by the "remote pilot competence" line in the table. If you fly a Spark (ie >250g) in category A3 what demonstration of pilot competence is expected? CAP722 Ed8. only mentions DMARES online learning and possession of a Flyer ID. Neither of these really demonstrate competence as you can easily pass both without ever having flown a drone.

Competence for that is simply the multiple choice test. Basically you know the rules and basic common sense procedures.
Risk is deemed low enough you dont NEED to have flown a drone to qualify.

 

[zocalo]

Finally, a simplified summary of the new rules.

Or, if you'd prefer a PDF, it's one of several factsheets that were released last week (CAP2008, to be precise), each dealing with a specific aspect of the new rules. You can find all these, and a few other related documents at this search result page at the CAA's site. Useful things to have on your phone/tablet when flying if anyone ever questions whether you're operating legally.

Also, for anyone planning on trying to fly on December 31st, CAP2013 is worth a look as it seems to cover the 23 hour period upto 23:00 on the 31st, when the Brexit Transition Period officially ends. It looks like the waters are even muddier than we may have thought as it implies that that while the new regulations come into force at the start of the day, some of the older ones also continue to apply until 23:00 in the evening! (e.g. the note under Article 270).

In otherwords, to be 100% sure that you are operating legally, you can either pick through the details that apply to your planned flight(s) or just use the most restrictive restriction of both sets of rules applies for the duration of the 31st.

 

[Cymru]

In otherwords, to be 100% sure that you are operating legally, you can either pick through the details that apply to your planned flight(s) or just use the most restrictive restriction of both sets of rules applies for the duration of the 31st.

May not be an issue - England lockdown starts Wed 30th so drone flying wont be allowed anyway as its not "essential exercise"

 

[maelstrom]

Finally, a simplified summary of the new rules.

There’s another more comprehensive list of the new regulations (updated this month) here:

The Drone and Model Aircraft Code | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Read the Drone and Model Aircraft Code to fly safely and legally. Find out what the rules are about flying unmanned aircraft in the UK.

register-drones.caa.co.uk

 

[scro]

That isn't true.
Provided the pitch/power limits arent exceeded (ie wind isnt too strong) the speed remains identical as a factor of distance over time. It just means it works harder to maintain.
Ground speed only drops once the wind becomes too strong for the limits
On the mavic the flight control rules are *everything* maintains a constant GPS derived speed at all times until conditions reach a point where its impossible.

If you DO want to go faster with the wind, use ATTI mode where GPS limits are not observed.

I hear what you're saying, and agree, but only to an extent.

The reality for the Mavic Mini is it is AT the limit when at its maximum groundspeed. The maximum air speed (limited by tilt/motor power) it can achieve is very close to the maximum ground speed (limited by firmware/GPS). So, on a totally calm day you'll achiveve 13m/s groundspeed in any direction. As soon as there is anything more than a hint of wind your maximum groundspeed when heading upwind will be lower than the maximum airspeed (ie less than 13m/s). Further evidence that the max airspeed the MM is capable of is very close to its max ground-speed is that it starts to no longer be able to hold station in winds of approx 13m/s and above.

This is based on real world observations for a mavic mini. It may be that the larger mavics have s bit more spare power and are able to sustain noticably higher air speeds than their firmware-limited ground speeds. If that is the case then what you say is correct for these larger mavics.

We digress from the original thread topic though?

 

[Lastrexking]

There’s another more comprehensive list of the new regulations (updated this month) here:

The Drone and Model Aircraft Code | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Read the Drone and Model Aircraft Code to fly safely and legally. Find out what the rules are about flying unmanned aircraft in the UK.

register-drones.caa.co.uk

Yeah, that was discussed previously and someone asked for a simplified version, hence my sharing.

 

[Cymru]

I hear what you're saying, and agree, but only to an extent.

The reality for the Mavic Mini is it is AT the limit when at its maximum groundspeed. The maximum air speed (limited by tilt/motor power) it can achieve is very close to the maximum ground speed (limited by firmware/GPS). So, on a totally calm day you'll achiveve 13m/s groundspeed in any direction. As soon as there is anything more than a hint of wind your maximum groundspeed when heading upwind will be lower than the maximum airspeed (ie less than 13m/s). Further evidence that the max airspeed the MM is capable of is very close to its max ground-speed is that it starts to no longer be able to hold station in winds of approx 13m/s and above.

This is based on real world observations for a mavic mini. It may be that the larger mavics have s bit more spare power and are able to sustain noticably higher air speeds than their firmware-limited ground speeds. If that is the case then what you say is correct for these larger mavics.

We digress from the original thread topic though?

Mini maybe (but the mini v1 is the worst drone for wind DJI has ever created).
All of the other mavic range its not an issue.
Even the mini is programmed that way - its just far less resistant to wind in the first place so its envelope before it gets overwhelmed is much smaller. So it maintains a fixed ground speed until it can no longer fight the wind. Just like all the others.

 

[scro]

Mini maybe (but the mini v1 is the worst drone for wind DJI has ever created).
All of the other mavic range its not an issue.
Even the mini is programmed that way - its just far less resistant to wind in the first place so its envelope before it gets overwhelmed is much smaller. So it maintains a fixed ground speed until it can no longer fight the wind. Just like all the others.

So we're in agreement ?

The mini had basically no "headroom" between it's firmware limited groundspeed and hardware limited max airspeed. How much actual headroom do the larger mavics have? The mini has poor wind resistance, but also the lowest max speed of the mavic lineup. I suspect (but can't confirm) that the larger mavics are also operating near their maximum airspeed when operating at their maximum groundspeed so are therefore likely to be affected by even a small amount of wind in the same way as the Mini1. I'm happy to be corrected on this, as I don't have any real-world experience with larger mavics.

For example: with a Mavic Air 2 can you achieve a ground speed of 19m/s when flying into a headwind of 4m/s?

 

[Cymru]

I suspect (but can't confirm) that the larger mavics are also operating near their maximum airspeed when operating at their maximum groundspeed so are therefore likely to be affected by even a small amount of win

Both M1 and M2 have a lot more headroom so no they're not. You can get maximum horizontal speed even into a good decent wind on both.

MA2 no idea as i dont own one.

I can fly mine straight into a 10kt+ headwind with no issue or warnings and maintain max speed.

(The added headroom can be seen by the performance increase in sport mode. These drones really arent pushed at all in P-GPS)

 

[scro]

The added headroom can be seen by the performance increase in sport mode. These drones really arent pushed at all in P-GPS

So, can a M2 achieve 72kph into a 5kph headwind?

Talking about P-GPS mode speeds isn't really talking about maximum speeds. It is the max speed the regs refer to - ie sport mode speeds. If we're talking about P-GPS speeds then the Mini1 isn't pushed hard either. It's operating at about 65% of what it is capable of, and can easily sustain the p-mode speed of 8m/s into a headwind up to about 4m/s windspeed - beyond this you start to notice lower groundspeeds when heading into the wind.

 

[Cymru]

Theres more than just "max power" to determining limits.
Aerodynamics to an extent, permitted motor power and pitch.
Mini is the same as all the other mavic series - it maintains a fixed speed regardless of wind until its overwhelmed. The different with the mini is its awful in wind and hits that limit sooner than anything else.

 

[scro]

Theres more than just "max power" to determining limits.
Aerodynamics to an extent, permitted motor power and pitch.
Mini is the same as all the other mavic series - it maintains a fixed speed regardless of wind until its overwhelmed. The different with the mini is its awful in wind and hits that limit sooner than anything else.

So, can a M2 achieve 72kph into a 5kph headwind?

Or, like the mini1, its max groundspeed is limited if flying into a headwind?