Regs changes in the UK - Nov update

[scro]

But the adoption of the new rules isn't directly linked to this date - indeed originally they were supposed to come in during the summer, then Nov.

So the idea was always for EU (including the UK) to adopt the rules whilst the UK was a transitional member before the CAA would take over with their mirrored legislation.

Good points - I think there's a deliberate overlap here. The more I read and the more I think about it new rules kicking in on 00:01 31/12/20 seems right. I've literally just now received an email from the CAA informing me of the new rules and the text of that refers to the new rules coming in to force on the 31st, with the implication that it is 00:01, and not 23:59, or even 23:00.

If I fly in my garden or in a quiet corner of my local park I'm in contravention of the old rules, but not the new. There are a few small but significant changes in the rules for sub 250g drones.

 

[colcol5411]

Hi all..... can someone explain this..... under the new rule for mavic mini sub 250g

Separation from property (vehicles, vessels and structures).
........ states.......

All - No minimum distance - Do not endanger (if persons are inside the properties or vehicles, then the separation from persons must be applied)

What does the in brackets part mean ..? ..is it for indoor flying or does it mean if folk are in a house looking out a window then there is a minimum distance or what....?

its just that last part that confusedme.... "if persons are inside the properties or vehicles, then the separation from persons must be applied"

 

[nathankw]

Hi all..... can someone explain this..... under the new rule for mavic mini sub 250g

Separation from property (vehicles, vessels and structures).
........ states.......

All - No minimum distance - Do not endanger (if persons are inside the properties or vehicles, then the separation from persons must be applied)

What does the in brackets part mean ..? ..is it for indoor flying or does it mean if folk are in a house looking out a window then there is a minimum distance or what....?

its just that last part that confusedme.... "if persons are inside the properties or vehicles, then the separation from persons must be applied"

Basically under the new rules they're not worried about buildings or vehicles, they're worried about people.

So just imagine the building isn't there.

If the building is unoccupied then you can fly there no problems.

If the building is unoccupied, apply the rules as if the people were standing there in the open.
So all the usual rules about flying near people apply.
With a <250g drone you can fly over the building, with a larger drone there are minimum distances.

 

[colcol5411]

Thank you .... yes i understand now ..... if I where taking off/landing in my garden just use common sense..... so just up and out slowly and safely Even though my nabouers are just over the fence or alleyway would be acceptable and legal.

 

[Cymru]

If I fly in my garden or in a quiet corner of my local park I'm in contravention of the old rules, but not the new. There are a few small but significant changes in the rules for sub 250g drones.

Even from A2/A2CoC some changes are really useful as it will legalise flying from your garden whereas in theory previously it was not.
Not sure anyone really paid attention to things like it before but it does help there somewhat.

 

[colcol5411]

I completely agree ......its much better

 

[maelstrom]

if I where taking off/landing in my garden just use common sense..... so just up and out slowly and safely Even though my nabouers are just over the fence or alleyway would be acceptable and legal.

Even from A2/A2CoC some changes are really useful as it will legalise flying from your garden whereas in theory previously it was not.

Only if your drone weighs less than 250g, unless I’ve read the regulations incorrectly. See point 6 on this page:

Where you can fly drones | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Find out about height limits and distances from people, buildings, crowds and vehicles. Restrictions on flying drones and model aircraft near airports.

register-drones.caa.co.uk

 

[Lastrexking]

Only if your drone weighs less than 250g, unless I’ve read the regulations incorrectly. See point 6 on this page:

Where you can fly drones | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Find out about height limits and distances from people, buildings, crowds and vehicles. Restrictions on flying drones and model aircraft near airports.

register-drones.caa.co.uk

Yep, only for sub 250g drones.

 

[scro]

Only if your drone weighs less than 250g, unless I’ve read the regulations incorrectly. See point 6...

The guidance is a bit generalised and assumes you've not obtained an A2 CofC. When you have A2CofC it is assumed you'll be more familiar with the rules and know better what additional privileges it gives you.

 

[maelstrom]

The guidance is a bit generalised and assumes you've not obtained an A2 CofC. When you have A2CofC it is assumed you'll be more familiar with the rules and know better what additional privileges it gives you.

I didn’t think that the A2 CofC made any difference to the clearance distances. (other than to people). My understanding is that the weight or class (C0, C1) dictates the minimum distances allowed. Happy to be proven wrong, of course.

 

[Cymru]

I didn’t think that the A2 CofC made any difference to the clearance distances. (other than to people). My understanding is that the weight or class (C0, C1) dictates the minimum distances allowed. Happy to be proven wrong, of course.

Sort of but A2CoC allows legacy drones to be operated in A2 rather than A3 for 2 years so effectively reduces the new distances (the 50m remains for A2 transition legacy).
Without it your mavic 2 becomes A3 (far from people).

Its basically a way of roughly extending the old limits for 2 more years

 

[scro]

Beat me to it @Cymru ?

For the mavic mini or mini2 a2cofc makes no difference but for any 250g to 500g drones you can fly near but not over people. With >500g drones you need to keep 50m away from people, but no restriction on distances away from buildings(unless there are people in them).

Without a2cofc and any >250g drone (eg dji spark) you have to keep min 50m away from people and 150m away from residential/industrial/commercial/recreational areas, which is a good bit more onerous.

 

[old man mavic]

whether you fly on the 31st of December or not is not really an issue ,we are going into a level 4 lockdown from the 28th here in Wales ,so i expect that will entail travel restrictions as before ,the real benefit for us drone flyers with a MM will be that we can fly in places that were out of bounds before the new rules are implemented ,i will still not be flying from my small back garden over where i live ,even though under the new rules i can with my MM ,without having to inform my neighbors i am doing so
just like to add i have my A2 C of C

 

[Cymru]

Wales lockdown is a minimum of 6 weeks (just Mugabe Drakeford forgot to mention that) as local authorities were briefed that last week. They WANT 12 if they can get away with it.

That'll rule out a lot of drone flying for sure. That said it'll depend on the actual laws, quite a lot last time the guidance was at odds with the actual legislation when you actually examined it in detail (5 mile rule etc).

This week theres no flying because i'd need an ROV more than a drone anyway. You can guarantee the weather will turn amazing for flying on the 28th and stay like that until Easter though!

 

[dulcificum]

That caught my attention too. I wonder how you demonstrate that? Is having the software altitude limit set to <120m sufficient?

Being pedantic, the second bullet point is interestingly worded too. The Mini and Mini2 definitely don't have a maximum speed of 19m/s, as seemingly required. I do suspect they mean the maximum speed should be no greater than 19m/s, but that's not what is written?

Moreover I expect they mean "having a maximum horizontal airspeed no greater than 19 m/s". I imagine many drones at terminal velocity can achieve a velocity greater than 19 m/s. And while I'm unsure on groundspeed vs airspeed, while it makes more sense to limit groundspeed, I'm not aware that any DJI drones attempt to/actually do limit groundspeed instead of horizontal airspeed.

 

[Cymru]

At the heights and envelope drones fly in, airspeed and groundspeed is to all intents and purposes the same thing.
We're not dealing with the effect of flying into/away from wind and indicated air speed etc. Its a bog standard distance over time GPS derived speed.
And its specifically in a horizontal plane so terminal velocity dropping isnt factored in (except for the impact force exception to weight).

 

[Cymru]

That caught my attention too. I wonder how you demonstrate that? Is having the software altitude limit set to <120m sufficient?

Being pedantic, the second bullet point is interestingly worded too. The Mini and Mini2 definitely don't have a maximum speed of 19m/s, as seemingly required. I do suspect they mean the maximum speed should be no greater than 19m/s, but that's not what is written?

Its poorly written for sure.

A 120m cap wouldnt guarantee legal flight. If you're on a 200m cliff, fly up to 120m its legal....but if you then fly away from that cliff over the lower ground for say 200m you're height above ground is now 320m and its illegal

(FWIW i dont like the way altitude and height are used interchangeably in some documents there when they're different things entirely.)

 

[dulcificum]

At the heights and envelope drones fly in, airspeed and groundspeed is to all intents and purposes the same thing.
We're not dealing with the effect of flying into/away from wind and indicated air speed etc. Its a bog standard distance over time GPS derived speed.
And its specifically in a horizontal plane so terminal velocity dropping isnt factored in (except for the impact force exception to weight).

I've flown in close to 8 m/s winds which makes a massive difference in groundspeed depending on which direction you're going.

I must have missed where they're only interested in the horizontal component of the velocity.

 

[Cymru]

I've flown in close to 8 m/s winds which makes a massive difference in groundspeed depending on which direction you're going.

It only matters if the wind is more than the drone can cope with.

Mavics work on maintaining a GPS speed which is horizontal distance/time.
They adjust pitch and/or RPM to maintain that speed.

This applies into, away from and cross wind.

The only time it deviates is if the drone cant cope with the wind. The second flight limitation is pitch. If they reach a pre-defined pitch limit they wont go any further and that can mean its flying slower into a strong wind.

You'll only see a difference in groundspeed/airspeed/velocity-over-ground due to wind if the wind strength is more than the drone power and pitch limit can cope with to maintain the set GPS speed.

For example if you fly at 10kts with a tail wind of 10kts, you'll do 10kts. If you now turn around and fly at 10kts into a 10kt headwind, you'll still do 10kts provided the pitch/power can cope enough to maintain that gps speed. Turn 90 degrees and go crosswind the same.
We're not dealing with indicated airspeed and so on here.

 

[dulcificum]

It only matters if the wind is more than the drone can cope with.

Mavics work on maintaining a GPS speed which is horizontal distance/time.
They adjust pitch and/or RPM to maintain that speed.

This applies into, away from and cross wind.

The only time it deviates is if the drone cant cope with the wind. The second flight limitation is pitch. If they reach a pre-defined pitch limit they wont go any further and that can mean its flying slower into a strong wind.

You'll only see a difference in groundspeed/airspeed/velocity-over-ground due to wind if the wind strength is more than the drone power and pitch limit can cope with to maintain the set GPS speed.

For example if you fly at 10kts with a tail wind of 10kts, you'll do 10kts. If you now turn around and fly at 10kts into a 10kt headwind, you'll still do 10kts provided the pitch/power can cope enough to maintain that gps speed. Turn 90 degrees and go crosswind the same.
We're not dealing with indicated airspeed and so on here.

Sure but where there is wind shear it can easily happen momentarily.