FAA Announces 8 Partners in Remote ID Development

[sar104]

If you look at what I put in directly from the FAA site, you must have an Internet connection to broadcast message elements. Perhaps their wording is misleading, but that's how I interpret their language.

No - it's perfectly clear - that's limited RID (89.115), not standard RID (89.110).

 

[sar104]

According to the FAA you need an Internet connection to broadcast message elements in the LRI class, which is the class we'd need flexibility to fly remotely.

No - you would use standard RID.

 

[Kelpfish]

No - you would use standard RID.

Standard Remote Identification (SRI)
The Standard Remote Identification (SRI) is the top category. It requires drone operators to use drone(s) and control station(s) of high quality with consistent internet connectivity.

WTH am I missing here? It's pretty clear to me that the language says that with STANDARD you have to have a consistent internet connection.

 

[sar104]

Standard Remote Identification (SRI)
The Standard Remote Identification (SRI) is the top category. It requires drone operators to use drone(s) and control station(s) of high quality with consistent internet connectivity.

WTH am I missing here? It's pretty clear to me that the language says that with STANDARD you have to have a consistent internet connection.

You are missing reading the actual proposal. I quoted it above - how much easier can I make it for you?

 

[Kelpfish]

You are missing reading the actual proposal. I quoted it above - how much easier can I make it for you?

What you quotes was Standard. What I responded to was that with standard you are required to have an Internet connection. Here is the FAA's own verbiage from their proposal.

"Standard remote identification UAS would be required to broadcast identification and location information directly from the unmanned aircraft and simultaneously transmit that same information to a Remote ID USS through an internet connection."

Then they go on to say that in order to yield "at least" broadcast messages (in the remote section), you have to have an Internet connection. So either way you lose based on their current language.

I'n not trying to start an argument, I am making posts based on how I interpret actual language from the FAA's proposal. And what I can conclude from their language is that we pilots would be pigeon holed when trying to fly our drones without any connectivity. I would be more than giddy if you posted from their proposal where it says you will be able to fly your drone without connectivity besides the FAA approved sites in the USA. You haven't done that. You keep citing the Standard ID. I respond that the standard ID requires a connection, and we go in circles. So I am not going to keep posting while we go in circles. If we cannot advance this conversation with more substance, then I don't want to waste everyone's time, including yours.

I do appreciate you posting, though.

 

[sar104]

What you quotes was Standard. What I responded to was that with standard you are required to have an Internet connection. Here is the FAA's own verbiage from their proposal.

"Standard remote identification UAS would be required to broadcast identification and location information directly from the unmanned aircraft and simultaneously transmit that same information to a Remote ID USS through an internet connection."

Then they go on to say that in order to yield "at least" broadcast messages (in the remote section), you have to have an Internet connection. So either way you lose based on their current language.

I'n not trying to start an argument, I am making posts based on how I interpret actual language from the FAA's proposal. And what I can conclude from their language is that we pilots would be pigeon holed when trying to fly our drones without any connectivity. I would be more than giddy if you posted from their proposal where it says you will be able to fly your drone without connectivity besides the FAA approved sites in the USA. You haven't done that. You keep citing the Standard ID. I respond that the standard ID requires a connection, and we go in circles. So I am not going to keep posting while we go in circles. If we cannot advance this conversation with more substance, then I don't want to waste everyone's time, including yours.

I do appreciate you posting, though.

I give up. You clearly haven't even read the proposal. If you want to cherry pick oddly worded excerpts from FAA webpages, which are notoriously unreliable, and steadfastly refuse to read the actual NRPM, or even to notice that your interpretation doesn't even make any sense (how would an SRID aircraft or controller maintain an internet connection in the absence of cellular service?), then fine. But the entire point of SRID is to have two reporting mechanisms - transmit direct to the USS ID servers via an internet connection and broadcast required elements directly from the aircraft - the latter for when there is no internet connection.

 

[Terry63]

The proposal is confusing and hard to understand because the term " broadcast" is used to identify two different things. It refers to the data that is sent via internet to the remote ID service (USS). In another place nearby in the document it refers to a repeated coded message or(Elements) broadcast by the aircraft's transmitter to any device nearby designed to receive the data.

I think the table below helps clarify matters. I think the paragraphs though do a better job. This is in the Scenarios to better help the general public under stand how remote ID will work in practice . there is a paragraph that proceeded the last paragraph that I left out do to length and relevance. The double use of the term "Broadcast" with no attached qualifier means you have to consider the context of the whole sentence to know which one they mean.




Table 4—Summary of Differences Between Standard Remote Identification UAS and Limited Remote Identification UAS

	Standard remote identification UAS	Limited remoteidentification UAS
Message elements
UAS Identification (serial number or session ID)	YES	YES.
Unmanned aircraft:
Latitude and longitude, barometric pressure altitude:	YES	NO.
Control station:
Latitude and longitude, barometric pressure altitude:	YES	YES.
A time mark identifying the Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) time of applicability of a position source output	YES	YES.
An indication of the emergency status of the UAS	YES	YES.
Connectivity prior to takeoff
Internet and Remote ID USS	YES	YES.
Broadcast	YES	NO.
If, at takeoff, the UAS cannot connect to the internet	Broadcast	Do not take off.
If, at takeoff, the UAS is connected to the internet, but is not transmitting to a Remote ID USS	Do not take off	Do not take off.
In-flight loss of remote identification
If, during flight, the UAS loses the connection to the internet or stops transmitting to the Remote ID USS	Broadcast	Land as soon as practicable.
If, during flight, the UAS loses its ability to broadcast the message elements	Land as soon as practicable	N/A.
Range limitation
Range limitation from control station	None; operation would have to comply with all other operating requirements	Limited to operations within 400 feet of control station.
Broadcasting from the unmanned aircraft at any point
Broadcast limitation	Standard remote identification unmanned aircraft must broadcast remote identification message elements	Limited remote identification unmanned aircraft cannot broadcast remote identification message elements.

Patty submits her unmanned aircraft's serial number. Because Patty is required to register her unmanned aircraft under part 48, she is subject to the remote identification operating requirements in part 89.

Patty then subscribes online to Alpha, Inc., an FAA-qualified Remote ID USS. Her UAS is designed to connect to the internet by automatically pairing with her personal smart phone when the phone is running an application provided by Alpha USS. Each time Patty uses her UAS, it automatically transmits the standard remote identification UAS' remote identification message elements through that internet connection to Alpha USS. Patty chooses to use her unmanned aircraft's serial number for the UAS Identification message element, but in the future, she may instead choose to use a session ID assigned by Alpha USS.

Sometimes, Patty's UAS loses its internet connection while she is operating in rural areas; she can continue the operation as long as the unmanned aircraft is still broadcasting the remote identification message elements. During one operation, Patty's UAS indicated that, due to a malfunction, the unmanned aircraft was no longer broadcasting the message elements, at which point she landed the unmanned aircraft as soon as practicable.

This is because if any Remote ID USS is available, even if it is not the one she contracted with, her UAS is designed to connect to it through the internet. As long as she can connect to the internet, it is incumbent on Patty to connect to a USS. Only when the UAS cannot connect to the internet would the unmanned aircraft be able to take off while only broadcasting.

 

[Texbow]

The proposal is confusing and hard to understand because the term " broadcast" is used to identify two different things. It refers to the data that is sent via internet to the remote ID service (USS). In another place nearby in the document it refers to a repeated coded message or(Elements) broadcast by the aircraft's transmitter to any device nearby designed to receive the data.

I think the table below helps clarify matters. I think the paragraphs though do a better job. This is in the Scenarios to better help the general public under stand how remote ID will work in practice . there is a paragraph that proceeded the last paragraph that I left out do to length and relevance. The double use of the term "Broadcast" with no attached qualifier means you have to consider the context of the whole sentence to know which one they mean.




Table 4—Summary of Differences Between Standard Remote Identification UAS and Limited Remote Identification UAS

	Standard remote identification UAS	Limited remoteidentification UAS
Message elements
UAS Identification (serial number or session ID)	YES	YES.
Unmanned aircraft:
Latitude and longitude, barometric pressure altitude:	YES	NO.
Control station:
Latitude and longitude, barometric pressure altitude:	YES	YES.
A time mark identifying the Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) time of applicability of a position source output	YES	YES.
An indication of the emergency status of the UAS	YES	YES.
Connectivity prior to takeoff
Internet and Remote ID USS	YES	YES.
Broadcast	YES	NO.
If, at takeoff, the UAS cannot connect to the internet	Broadcast	Do not take off.
If, at takeoff, the UAS is connected to the internet, but is not transmitting to a Remote ID USS	Do not take off	Do not take off.
In-flight loss of remote identification
If, during flight, the UAS loses the connection to the internet or stops transmitting to the Remote ID USS	Broadcast	Land as soon as practicable.
If, during flight, the UAS loses its ability to broadcast the message elements	Land as soon as practicable	N/A.
Range limitation
Range limitation from control station	None; operation would have to comply with all other operating requirements	Limited to operations within 400 feet of control station.
Broadcasting from the unmanned aircraft at any point
Broadcast limitation	Standard remote identification unmanned aircraft must broadcast remote identification message elements	Limited remote identification unmanned aircraft cannot broadcast remote identification message elements.

Patty submits her unmanned aircraft's serial number. Because Patty is required to register her unmanned aircraft under part 48, she is subject to the remote identification operating requirements in part 89.

Patty then subscribes online to Alpha, Inc., an FAA-qualified Remote ID USS. Her UAS is designed to connect to the internet by automatically pairing with her personal smart phone when the phone is running an application provided by Alpha USS. Each time Patty uses her UAS, it automatically transmits the standard remote identification UAS' remote identification message elements through that internet connection to Alpha USS. Patty chooses to use her unmanned aircraft's serial number for the UAS Identification message element, but in the future, she may instead choose to use a session ID assigned by Alpha USS.

Sometimes, Patty's UAS loses its internet connection while she is operating in rural areas; she can continue the operation as long as the unmanned aircraft is still broadcasting the remote identification message elements. During one operation, Patty's UAS indicated that, due to a malfunction, the unmanned aircraft was no longer broadcasting the message elements, at which point she landed the unmanned aircraft as soon as practicable.

This is because if any Remote ID USS is available, even if it is not the one she contracted with, her UAS is designed to connect to it through the internet. As long as she can connect to the internet, it is incumbent on Patty to connect to a USS. Only when the UAS cannot connect to the internet would the unmanned aircraft be able to take off while only broadcasting.

I'll beg up front for forgiveness but define broadcasting in your last paragraph. I take broadcasting to mean, your drone still sends a remote id signal but no one is there to receive it because of zero connectivity with anyone unless another aircraft is near enough to pick up the broadcast from your drone. Correct? or off my rocker?

 

[sar104]

I'll beg up front for forgiveness but define broadcasting in your last paragraph. I take broadcasting to mean, your drone still sends a remote id signal but no one is there to receive it because of zero connectivity with anyone unless another aircraft is near enough to pick up the broadcast from your drone. Correct? or off my rocker?

Correct - broadcasting is just a one-way radio transmission of the telemetry elements similar to ADS-B, as opposed to acknowledged packet communications such as TCP.

 

[Terry63]

I'll beg up front for forgiveness but define broadcasting in your last paragraph. I take broadcasting to mean, your drone still sends a remote id signal but no one is there to receive it because of zero connectivity with anyone unless another aircraft is near enough to pick up the broadcast from your drone. Correct? or off my rocker?

You are correct.

 

[Texbow]

Correct - broadcasting is just a one-way radio transmission of the telemetry elements similar to ADS-B, as opposed to acknowledged packet communications such as TCP.

Thank you.

 

[Texbow]

You are correct.

Thank you.

 

[sar104]

The NPRM states; Without internet connection a "legacy" UAS wouldn't take-off, it would be "bricked" even at a FAA-FRIA. sar104 might disagree, but it's black and white in the NPRM. My DJI mini didn't need to be obsolete by then, but this rule insures 1.5 million obsolete drones.

I do disagree because the NPRM doesn't say that which, presumably, is why you didn't actually quote it. It does refer to "legacy" UAS, which it defines on pages 191 and 192 as aircraft that cannot be retrofit or modified by firmware updates to satisfy the RID requirements. You made the leap to assume that the current DJI equipment cannot be made compliant, likely just by a firmware update.

Vast areas of this county exist without cellular phone service. Mountains with steep cliffs prevent satellite phone service and HF radio transmissions. VLF may not have the bandwidth needed for the frequency of transmissions. A few miles off shore, satellite phone service can be sporadic and cellular service non-existent. These are prime area's for operating. Due to police state, popular or not, we're getting the rule, end of story. Too bad the big city folk couldn't think outside the box regarding creating obsolete UAS. The rule doesn't address conflict resolution between UAS. It's a big safety issue regarding BVLOS. The "big sky rule" no two aircraft can occupy the same airspace doesn't exist. The FAA fibbed when they said this NPRM is about integrating commercial UAS. It's really about police and semi sterile airspace. It's opening up a dangerous situation where UPS, Fed-ex and Amazon have midair collisions in residential areas, UAS operating with 20,000. mAh LiPo batteries catching fire on impact then land on a roof and burn down Amazon warehouse structures with people in them. The hemispherical cruising rule isn't enough to prevent collisions. The NPRM should address conflict resolution communication with integrated autopilot control inputs simultaneously effecting anti-collision vectors. Without this, we might even see our first midair collision before the NPRM takes effect. Even with ATC we've averaged 25 mid-airs per year with a fleet of less than 200,000. Just imagine a fleet ten times that, lets say two million UAS ... UAS only has 400' vertical airspace as apposed to 40,000' airspace for real planes. So if we have, 100 times less vertical airspace or even 20 times less airspace we could see 5,000. mid-air collisions per year. I know it's not a fair comparison because UAS won't be flying formation and most collisions occur below 8000' but that's still less than five percent of the airspace real airplanes have. I don't see anywhere in the NPRM provisions for conflict resolution, so how is this NPRM about safely integrating commercial UAS. ?

I'm not going to dignify that with a response.

 

[sar104]

I didn't make the leap, to assume that the current DJI equipment cannot be made compliant, likely just by a firmware update. The FAA already has done that, signed sealed and delivered. And I didn't expect any dignity, a response from you or anyone else, You seem perturbed over others opinion on this rule. I'm not trying to upset anyone, don't take it personally. I just think this NPRM is going to cause accidents.

Where did they do that? I don't see any mention of DJI in that scenario, or any other manufacturer for that matter. I see a scenario about a limited RID UAS with no internet connection. What does that have to do with the question of whether DJI can or will make existing models standard RID compliant?

 

[sar104]

Even if it was possible, why would any manufacturer want to make any existing models compliant, when the FAA has handed all manufacturers planned obsolescence on a silver platter ? I don't think it would be in their (DJI) best interest. But maybe someone really smart like you or Litchi could write the code for others to use ?

The DJI aircraft already do what is basically required. They transmit all the required elements to the RC and mobile device, and so all that is required for the USS RID part is for the app to talk to the USS servers if it has an internet connection. And in transmitting to the RC the aircraft is already also broadcasting the required elements - that's how Aeroscope works. While that is currently proprietary, all that it would take would be to make that open-standard compliant, and now you have both SRID requirements taken care of.

Whether DJI does that is another matter, of course, but if obsolescence were their preferred outcome then why would they be lobbying so hard on these requirements? Given the rate of progress in the industry and the advances in the new models of sUAS that are regularly released, they really don't need imposed obsolescence, and customer loyalty is far more likely to be furthered by giving a couple of more years of useful life to existing models.

 

[TheRock]

" if it has an internet connection." - But drone operators cannot fly around many city environments (where there ARE internet connections) or airports.... SO reliable internet connections, or lack of, are a problem. I fly in places that don't even have 2G phones. Instead of accepting that this new technology is just part of a recreational drone operator's life, LOBBY your reps.

 

[sar104]

" if it has an internet connection." - But drone operators cannot fly around many city environments (where there ARE internet connections) or airports.... SO reliable internet connections, or lack of, are a problem. I fly in places that don't even have 2G phones. Instead of accepting that this new technology is just part of a recreational drone operator's life, LOBBY your reps.

Or you could read the NPRM, or even this thread - then you would discover that an internet connection is not required under SRID.

 

[TheRock]

I have read both and I can see you have concluded this is a happening thing. I think it is totally unnecessary. Again, instead of accepting that this new tracking technology as part of a recreational drone operator's life, LOBBY and educate your reps.