FAA Drone ID Proposal- Round Two

[MarkNJ]

might suggest you take a look at our NZ brother’s latest post

xjet

he’s offering to “represent” as many of us as want to be represented by his comments to the FAA (in addition to your own submissions)

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Thank you for your correction. So am I to understand the mobile device connected to the RC must have a cellular connection and that a tablet or iPod without a cellular connection can't be used with the RC?

That IS a good question, I've been wondering about this, where "If no internet is available, the UAS would only be required to broadcast the message elements directly from the aircraft."

A nice concise guide to FAA remote ID NPRM.

Guide to the NPRM for Remote ID — FPV Freedom Coalition

fpvfc.org

Ok, this won't affect me here in Oz, at least not unless our airspace authority (CASA) one day deems it fitting to follow FAA on this (they'll be watching closely when - IF - commercial UAS really 'takes off', I'm sure).
But, if flying without a cellular device, the aircraft transmitting flight info to a remote ID USS is enough still, or if somehow the system senses cellular connection is available, it won't let you take off ?

If internet is available at take off, the UAS would be required to connect to a Remote ID USS and transmit the message elements from takeoff to landing. Simultaneously, the UAS must broadcast the same Remote ID message elements directly from the aircraft using radio frequency from takeoff to landing.

But "If internet is available, but the UAS cannot connect to a Remote ID USS, the aircraft must be designed to not take off."

It couldn't be as simple as flying without a cellular connectable device, or using aeroplane mode, could it ?

 

[brettbrandon]

brett sounds like you’re into these whoops. You’ve been talking about em for a while now. Never took it seriously. Never thought I’d go there. But, now drones are banned in city parks and desperate times call for desperate measures. We have an RC park not far away boring after a while with Mavic but probably great place to go FPV Whoopdie. Never flown FPV but bet I would like it. Thanks for the inspiration! Which model and accessories do I need?

WARNING: FPV flying is very addictive.
You should definately check it out but be prepared to be hooked.
If you don't have a standard transmitter or FPV goggles I would suggest this bundle. If you don't like it you are not out alot.
Amazon.com: EMAX Tinyhawk RTF Micro Indoor Racing Drone with FPV Goggles and Controller for Beginners: Toys & Games

I would reccomend the "EMAX Tinyhawk" drone to start with as it flys very well and is almost indestructable. The "S" version will take 2S batteries (mo power) and is a bit updated. If you do break something, parts are cheap.
I love my FrSky Taranis QX7 transmitter. It costs just over 100 bucks.
Goggles are another story with so many choices and price points. In the Quality goggles I would say that the "Skyzone 03O" goggles are the best quality bang for the buck at $400. I have a pair of Fat Shark HDO2 goggles on the way but they are over $600 with the reciever module. Spec wise they are much like the Skyzones but have a 44 degree FOV where the Skyzones are 35 degree and of course they are Fat Sharks (long time in business and great support).

And yes I love those whoops. I haven't flown the M2P in months but fly the whoops almost daily. Just an expensive paperweight. I have built another quad since this pic with another in process (using a gutted GoPro for 4K video in a whoop that will fit in my hand). The little guy sitting on the M2P is only 20 grams and an exellent indoor flyer.



What I really like about these tiny things is folks don't seem to consider these the same as the "dreaded drones" some have come to hate. They think they are pretty neat. I am in a retirement community surrounded by "older" people but they don't mind the whoops.

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[MAvic_South_Oz]

FPV is in greater danger from this than consumer cinematic type drone hobbyists . . .

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Building your own will probably be totally out when this hits.

 

[Multi-Rotor Pilot812]

Carry a phone?

“I carry a phone”, so as to prove whatever your point was supposed to be then kindly respond to my current post with my real name and my coordinates at present. Right, that’s what I thought! “Carry a phone?” LoL.

 

[Multi-Rotor Pilot812]

If the FAA wanted to ban recreational drones from the airspace they would simply do that.

Right, if it comes to that I wish them lots of luck with enforcement(not really). I guess when hobbyists are restricted to the point of flying a kite and fpv is all but outlawed then only outlaws will fly. There’s something north of 1.5 million registered “drones” as of now, how many are there that aren’t registered? Of them how many do you think will tell the FAA where exactly to insert their new regulations? Technically it’s already illegal to fly a 15 gram aircraft with goggles on and I try to break that regulation every single chance I get. If people like yourself and the FAA think outlaw flyers are a problem now then hold on because you haven’t seen anything yet, after all if you’re going to not comply with one part then I guess you might as well really go for the gusto!

 

[sar104]

Really, I don't see that at all. Being restricted to 400 feet from the controller isn't a change. Being restricted to approved areas isn't a change?

Those only apply if you are not using Standard Remote ID. Under SRID, nothing changes.

 

[Classic flyer]

This ruling will kill the hobby fliers, especially those of us that fly conventional fixed wing models. The added cost for this piece of technology and a monthly service fee to a 3rd party will , in my opinion, kill what used to be a fun hobby...be smart fly safe

 

[Earthman]

We have until March 2, 2020 to leave formal comments to the FAA on this proposed rule. Please comment.

Tips for leaving formal comments:

https://www.regulations.gov/docs/Tips_For_Submitting_Effective_Comments.pdf

Direct link to FAA comment page:

Remote Identification of Unmanned Aircraft Systems

This action would require the remote identification of unmanned aircraft systems. The remote identification of unmanned aircraft systems in the airspace of the United States would address safety, national security, and law enforcement concerns regarding the further integration of these aircraft...

www.federalregister.gov

 

[brettbrandon]

Those only apply if you are not using Standard Remote ID. Under SRID, nothing changes.

Mine won't support that which was made quite clear in Joshua Bardwells video. FPV is his job so I will trust what he and the other two are saying first as they are involed in it first hand. And if it goes like it looks to them, even the AMA fields will be phased out...

 

[sar104]

Mine won't support that which was made quite clear in Joshua Bardwells video. FPV is his job so I will trust what he and the other two are saying first as they are involed in it first hand. And if it goes like it looks to them, even the AMA fields will be phased out...

Good grief - the curse of interminable YouTube videos. If you are talking about home made FPV aircraft, which is what they appeared to be addressing, then likely yes. I've been referring to DJI aircraft.

 

[DeltaTango]

1. ADS-B in (e.g. DJI AirSense)

And exactly what would ADS-B in do to provide identification?
You must mean ADS-B OUT...

 

[Rangerider]

Yes, but I can't board an airplane or enter a federal facility without it. I really don't fly anymore and have no desire to enter a federal anything. This just seems like a step closer to "your papers please" while crossing state borders. Of course this would be in the intrest of public safety...

I don't think you have to worry about the real id. The airlines(corporations) and the FAA(their lackey) will figure out how to do without the 'real' id. The airlines will lose too much money on this as the population that will not comply is large enough that it will financially hurt the corporations. Besides, I think all you really need is two forms of 'gov' id like driver's license and passport just like now. It will be hard for them to retroactively enforce this due to the economics. What's next? Chip implants? Retina scan? Rectal probes?

 

[Earthman]

Was @sar104 incorrect when he said that lack of internet connectivity is not a requirement to be able to fly outside of a 400-foot bubble? My understanding from his numerous posts regarding this point was that the drone needs only to be able to broadcast the requisite data elements - a capability that most recent DJI drones already have.

The DJI drones most likely have sufficient hardware that they could broadcast the required info with perhaps a firmware upgrade, but only to the ground station - not other manned aircraft that would likely not have the necessary hardware to receiver the signal. So your cell phone or cell phone-enabled tablet would need to be connected to the Internet to relay the info real-time to the Remote ID system the FAA is talking about. Without the connection to the Internet, you would be limited to flying at FAA approved flying sites and within 400-ft of the PIC. So, no more flying at remote locations where there is no access to the Internet unless it happens to be an approved site.

 

[Phochief]

I'm adding the below comment to my earlier FAA comments because I think our pilot location should not be available to the public.​

___________________________
The NPRM for Remote ID has a dangerous flaw - it makes the drone control operator’s location available to the general public. Giving the exact location of the pilot to anyone who wants it can endanger the pilot’s safety or create a situation where a disgruntled person could stalk the pilot, harass the pilot or threaten the pilot. Location data should ONLY be available to the FAA and law enforcement.

Why? A drone's Remote ID is kind of like a car's license tag. (Although a drone operator's name and address would be private, the real-time location of the pilot would be public).

Before implementing the Remote ID for drones which give the exact location of the drone pilot, perhaps the FAA should look at the Drivers Privacy Protection Act of 1994 for automobile license plates after a number of incidents where a person would use a license plate number to look up someone’s address and then proceed to stalk, harass and in some cases, murder them. (The federal law was passed in part in reaction to the death of actress Rebecca Shaeffer by an obsessed fan who obtained her home address from state department of motor vehicle (DMV) records and then stalked and killed her). (see below)

The DPPA requires all State’s Departments of Motor Vehicles to protect the privacy of personal information contained in an individual's motor vehicle record. This information includes the driver's name, address, phone number, Social Security Number, driver identification number, photograph, height, weight, gender, age, certain medical or disability information, and in some states, fingerprints. It does not include information concerning a driver's traffic violations, license status or accidents.
The Act imposes criminal fines for non-compliance and grants individuals a private right of action including actual and punitive damages, as well as attorneys fees.

 

[sar104]

The DJI drones most likely have sufficient hardware that they could broadcast the required info with perhaps a firmware upgrade, but only to the ground station - not other manned aircraft that would likely not have the necessary hardware to receiver the signal. So your cell phone or cell phone-enabled tablet would need to be connected to the Internet to relay the info real-time to the Remote ID system the FAA is talking about. Without the connection to the Internet, you would be limited to flying at FAA approved flying sites and within 400-ft of the PIC. So, no more flying at remote locations where there is no access to the Internet unless it happens to be an approved site.

No - that is incorrect. The broadcast requirement is just that - a requirement to broadcast the data. It's just like ADS-B - there is no requirement for anyone to be receiving. Once again - directly from the proposal:

 

[sar104]

I'm adding the below comment to my earlier FAA comments because I think our personally identifiable information and location should not be available to the public.​

___________________________
The NPRM for Remote ID has a dangerous flaw - it makes the drone control operator’s location available to the general public. Giving the exact location of the pilot to anyone who wants it can endanger the pilot’s safety or create a situation where a disgruntled person could stalk the pilot, harass the pilot or threaten the pilot. Location data should ONLY be available to the FAA and law enforcement.

Why? A drone's Remote ID is similar to a license tag on a car.

The Drivers Privacy Protection Act of 1994 was enacted in congress for automobile license plates after a number of incidents where a person would use a license plate number to look up someone’s address and then proceed to stalk, harass and in some cases, murder them. (The federal law was passed in part in reaction to the death of actress Rebecca Shaeffer by an obsessed fan who obtained her home address from state department of motor vehicle (DMV) records and then stalked and killed her). (see below)

The DPPA requires all State’s Departments of Motor Vehicles to protect the privacy of personal information contained in an individual's motor vehicle record. This information includes the driver's name, address, phone number, Social Security Number, driver identification number, photograph, height, weight, gender, age, certain medical or disability information, and in some states, fingerprints. It does not include information concerning a driver's traffic violations, license status or accidents.
The Act imposes criminal fines for non-compliance and grants individuals a private right of action including actual and punitive damages, as well as attorneys fees.
View attachment 89793

Which PII do you think this system proposes to reveal?

 

[Phochief]

Which PII do you think this system proposes to reveal?

Does it not propose to include the pilot's latitude and longitude?

 

[sar104]

Does it not propose to include the pilot's latitude and longitude?

That's not PII.

 

[Phochief]

That's not PII.

Ok....then I don't know what PII is. However, I'm referring to what the NPRM says:

CFR Section 89.305

Message elements broadcast and transmitted by standard remote identification UAS. Standard remote identification UAS would have to broadcast and transmit the following remote identification message elements: The identity of the UAS consisting of the following:

1. The serial number assigned to the unmanned aircraft by the producer.
2. Session ID assigned by a Remote ID USS.
3. An indication of the latitude and longitude of the control station and unmanned aircraft.
4. An indication of the barometric pressure altitude of the control station and unmanned aircraft.
5. A Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) time mark.
6. An indication of the emergency status of the UAS, which could include lostlink or downed aircraft.

In other words, exactly as I said, "Giving the exact location of the pilot".