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FAA Got Slapped Down - Cannot Regulate Model Aircraft

Agree to disagree. Part 107's applicability states that you fall under the regulation of 14 CFR 107, unless you are flying under certain circumstances such as public use or Section 336. A model aircraft is defined as one that is operated within visual line of site, per 336(c)(2). So if you are operating your aircraft outside of visual line of site, you are no longer operating a model aircraft according to Section 336(c)(2). Therefore you are operating a civil unmanned aircraft, because your craft no longer meets the requirements of 14 CFR 101 or Section 336. The only applicable regulation at that point would be 14 CFR 107.

You are correct that the FAA has not stated this themselves and I should have made that clear in my original post.

Thank you both- and thanks to everyone, really. This is pretty educational and useful to read. I appreciate hearing what you guys think of all this, and feel like I have at least a slightly better idea of things now than I did at this time yesterday.

This discussion and laying out of how we each interpret the rules, and how we treat those rules as we understand them, does help clarify some things for those of us who have questions or doubts.
 
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Well, good news for me at any rate.
Spoke with the local airport control tower, told the guy were I fly (exactly on theh mark of 5 miles from the airport) my usual flying times, drone model and registration, that I see no reason I'd ever want to go higher than 400 feet, and asked if he minded me going beyond VLOS despirte being a hobbyist given that I'm mildly paranoid about flying over people and like to stay above trees and deserted areas for my aerial pictures anyway... so apparently we both know it's technically illegal, but he still says it's fine.

Left him my callback number and email, and he said to call him back if I ever have a question or concern.

That went about as well as it could've possibly gone.

I bet these guys must be swamped with calls sometimes, but it's still good for peace of mind to touch base like this.

Interesting outcome... still gonna bookmark this thread and keep eyes open for what exactly is the law at the moment.
 
So i feel like if the FAA has no control over the hobbyist, the hobbyists are now screwed... My state has been trying to pass laws like, "no flying within 5 miles of a school. (there goes any place to fly in like 95% of the state)" and "You can't fly over anyone's property. (there goes the last 5% of places to fly)"

Congratulations to whoever brought up that lawsuit. now I feel like the FAA can't protect the right to fly for recreation hobbyists all because one person didn't want to pay $5. I also feel like if the states can now impose those stupid drone laws, ill be screwed too, despite having the part 107.

Next, if someone crashes their drone and causes a wreck, at least when they ran there was a way to say, it was this person's drone. Now without the registration, it will be really hard to see who's drone it was.
 
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How about this situation. The college I work at is now asking if, since the FAA can't regulate hobbyists, it opens the door for the school district to be able to ban hobby drones completely.
 
The states, or the school districts, whomever, can try to pass laws banning drones but they will likely fail like the Utah bill or the vegas proposals. No one but the FAA can regulate the airspace. City owned property, or school property can certainly be made illegal to take off or land from, but the airspace above cannot be.
Also, the FAA's inability to regulate recreational sUAS flight has been in effect since 2012, so this isn't new, just the registration part.
 
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Why are people so upset. If they want to make laws stricter they'll face the same problem as the faa. If they repeal the problem the faa faces then the faa will just put the original laws back in place and everyone will be happy again with no extra new laws.
 
Why are people so upset. If they want to make laws stricter they'll face the same problem as the faa. If they repeal the problem the faa faces then the faa will just put the original laws back in place and everyone will be happy again with no extra new laws.
I really can't understand what you're saying here. I understand each word, but the way they're strung together is borderline incomprehensible. Who is they? What problem? What original laws?
 
I may be a lone wolf on this but I think this turn of events is a bad thing!

At least with the public perception of the FAA having some level of control we are were fairly safe from any kind of knee jerk reaction created by the drone fearing public. Now with the ball squarely in the hands of politicians we are at the mercy of those who respond to whatever gets them the most votes.

Rob

Have no fear - the Spark is here!! This 'cute' little selfie drone, coming in assorted colors, may very well be the 'IT' present to have under the Christmas tree this year!! With mass appeal, it'll makes its way into many hands of those that may never have had any exposure to drones - at least a quality drone. IMO, this may break some barriers in terms of perception, once this segment experiences the awesome joy of a flying camera! Hats off, once again to DJI! Frickin' Genius! Woo! [emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]
 
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Wow, so I guess this means no more registrations.I'm ok with this, the likelihood of them actually recovering a registration from a drone that hit an aircraft would be next to none in my opinion anyway.

And the 400 foot rule is now gone and all other rules or recommendations. That being said, its still a good idea to follow them or at-least use common sense.
Ya but it will only take one idiot to cause some kind of major accident to create a new law.
 
I really can't understand what you're saying here. I understand each word, but the way they're strung together is borderline incomprehensible. Who is they? What problem? What original laws?
People are stating on this forum that the state's will now make stricter laws but how will the state's make stricter laws if the "no regulating model aircraft law" is still in place. And if they do get the no regulating law repealed then the faa will just reinstate their rules and no state's will feel the need to make new laws
 
Everyone keeps talking about "idiots" and "morons" etc who are going to do this or going to be doing that because they think there's no rules. Does anyone here really think that these "idiots" and "morons" haven't already been doing what they felt like? You people really think that these rules were keeping the folks you all keep talking about in line? I don't.

It's just like gun laws. Law abiding citizens were never a threat and those that are a threat weren't going to pay attention to the laws or find ways around them anyway...
 
It's just like gun laws. Law abiding citizens were never a threat and those that are a threat weren't going to pay attention to the laws or find ways around them anyway...

Guns and drones in the same post... really?
 
I live in Pinellas county FL and we have about 1 millon ppl and about 15 millon visitors a year. I drive all over Pinellas almost everyday for work and I am always looking in the sky for quads. You would think the way the news and some talk the skys would be full of the quads..
The only problem is I have yet to see even one in the sky let alone hundreds or thousands of them the way people talk the sun should be hard to see and the sky should be blacked out or something! Really how many quads do you see flying on a daily basis?
 
Something I discovered as a newbie to the quad copter hobby- Everyone posting here that you have to register your drone with the FAA is completely wrong, unless you have a commercial pilot's license. As hobbyist, you register yourself, not the drone or 15 drones you own. The FAA has no idea what I own whether it be a Phantom 3, 4, Mavic or some 50 pound behemoth.

When you register and pay your $5 there is no place to list what drones you own. So they have no idea. All they required of you is if the drone you intend to fly weighs more than 250 grams, you must register AS A PILOT.

Then along comes this Lawyer,John Taylor, who wishes to fight the registration for hobbyists because he found the FAA violated the law, got a ruling in the Appeals court. The court ruled that the FAA could not regulate Hobbyist drone pilots. So the way I could see this is that if I fly as a hobbyist, there are no restrictions. Right? Wrong!

The FAA Modernization and Reform Act also includes a section stating that the FAA can still “pursue enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who endanger the safety of the national airspace system.”

To be legal as of the court ruling, don't bother to register anymore, but: follow these guidelines: There is no 400 ft rule in the limits. BUT it's your responsibility not to cause harm to other aircraft in the upper airspace they are authorized to fly in.

SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT. (a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—
(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;
(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
(3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;
(4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and
(5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport)).
(b) STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the authority of the Administrator to pursue enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who endanger the safety of the national airspace system.
(c) MODEL AIRCRAFT DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘‘model aircraft’’ means an unmanned aircraft that is— (1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere; (2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and (3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.
 
Then along comes this Lawyer,John Taylor...The court ruled that the FAA could not regulate Hobbyist drone pilots.

This is incorrect. Taylor v Huerta applies to registration, not to regulation.

Taylor v Huerta, https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/inter...20585258125004FBC13/$file/15-1495-1675918.pdf. It’s only 10 pages, read it.

"The FAA’s Registration Rule violates Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act. We grant Taylor’s petition for review of the Registration Rule, and we vacate the Registration Rule to the extent it applies to model aircraft. Because Taylor’s petition for review of Advisory Circular 91- 57A is untimely, that petition is denied.”

This case applies only to registration. The petition regarding regulation, specifically with respect to the Flight Restricted Zone around Washington, DC, was denied.

Taylor v Huerta applies to registration of UAS.
Taylor v Huerta does not apply to regulation of UAS.

So the way I could see this is that if I fly as a hobbyist, there are no restrictions. Right? Wrong!

You then provide 5 UAS restrictions from Section 336. Your statement is incorrect. There are restrictions to flying UAS as a hobbyist.
 
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