FAA Got Slapped Down - Cannot Regulate Model Aircraft

[RobertD]

You could live in Thailand where they passed a regulation that ALL RPA with a camera must be registered! This includes tiny flying toy with crappy cameras. Failure to register your RPA can result on a stiff fine! An added problem is they still haven't published the registration forms or procedures after two years!

 

[Blades]

You could live in Thailand where they passed a regulation that ALL RPA with a camera must be registered! This includes tiny flying toy with crappy cameras. Failure to register your RPA can result on a stiff fine! An added problem is they still haven't published the registration forms or procedures after two years!

Well thats why I live in the good old USA.

 

[RobertD]

That said, flight restrictions are few and the scenery spectacular! I prefer the other things Thailand offers, regardless of some of the distractions. I recommend everyone visit Thailand and bring a Mavic Pro!

 

[samd012]

That said, flight restrictions are few and the scenery spectacular! I prefer the other things Thailand offers, regardless of some of the distractions. I recommend everyone visit Thailand and bring a Mavic Pro!

What do you need as a tourist there?

 

[DroningOn]

You could live in Thailand where they passed a regulation that ALL RPA with a camera must be registered! This includes tiny flying toy with crappy cameras. Failure to register your RPA can result on a stiff fine! An added problem is they still haven't published the registration forms or procedures after two years!

There are a lot of people including many on this forum that would like to see exactly this

 

[RobertD]

What do you need as a tourist there?

The regulation states EVERY RPA must be registered, but I have yet to find the form and complete the registration. I have many Thai friends who fly and they say they don't need to register. Commercial registration is currently the focus of enforcement efforts.

 

[RobertD]

The regulation states EVERY RPA must be registered, but I have yet to find the form and complete the registration. I have many Thai friends who fly and they say they don't need to register. Commercial registration is currently the focus of enforcement efforts.

PS I always ask if it is okay to fly and take videos. The answer is usually and always yes. Currently Thailand isn't concerned with regulating airspace except for piloted aircraft or commercial use RPA.

 

[bemeis]

What does this mean to dji's NFZs and the geo fencing? Will they change it to allow flight closer to airports or will they leave it as is?

 

[tcope]

This is my exact reaction to this news! Be careful for what you wish for. Now you'll have politicians making the rules, like in Canada.

They could always make those laws... as long as they were legal... and they are making them regardless of the registration. I don't see this changing anything.

 

[Ryder]

Yes Ryder, that is correct. That is what I have been trying to present. That the stated limit of 400' AGL is ONLY within the radius of the airport, no where else you fly. Oddly, the AMA has other documents that say it's a 3 mile radius, and another that says 5mi. I believe the 3 mi. is the more correct one as that same radius is used in so many more of their publications.

I hope I didn't misunderstand you earlier. I was replying to you with the impression that you thought the AMA and the FAA limited all hobby flight to 400' AGL. All my replies to you were to present documentation proof to the contrary. Sorry if i misunderstood!

No, you had me right... I thought the FAA and AMA were both agreeing on the 400' limit. But it was only partial agreement.

I do appreciate what the FAA did though, in general... they provided a very short list that drone pilots could use instead of the AMA, which was a rather light touch in general. The fist was with the universal 400' limit. I think they went too far... they should have combined it with airport proximity and contacting the airport... IMHO.

The AMA is harder to navigate, though I do see they have rules that allow LOS exceptions for FPV fliers (with spotters).

I appreciate the AMA and FAA generally for trying to make this rapidly advancing sport "work". Better than I could say for the bureaucrats that run our parks systems.

 

[mw174620]

Just so everyone is clear, you still have to register your hobby drones as of now. The FAA has until Friday May 26th to file an appeal, at which time the ruling would be stayed, and registration would still be required until the appeal case was finished.

Soure: https://arstechnica.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/faastay.pdf

 

[mw174620]

I may be a lone wolf on this but I think this turn of events is a bad thing!

At least with the public perception of the FAA having some level of control we are were fairly safe from any kind of knee jerk reaction created by the drone fearing public. Now with the ball squarely in the hands of politicians we are at the mercy of those who respond to whatever gets them the most votes.

Rob

I am with you Rob. I have not been in the model industry for long, however I understand the concerns of the people who are cheering this. History tells us though, that when the government wants something done, they make laws or change them. The FAA has already said that the law can be amended, and I am willing to bet within the next two years, 333-336 gets amended to remove that language of "no more laws against model aircraft". It is $5 and a sticker on your craft. I personally would rather do that, then push the FAA to create more regulations and restrictions.

 

[AyeYo]

I am with you Rob. I have not been in the model industry for long, however I understand the concerns of the people who are cheering this. History tells us though, that when the government wants something done, they make laws or change them. The FAA has already said that the law can be amended, and I am willing to bet within the next two years, 333-336 gets amended to remove that language of "no more laws against model aircraft". It is $5 and a sticker on your craft. I personally would rather do that, then push the FAA to create more regulations and restrictions.

Bingo. Unfortunately, it appears that most flyers are far more near sighted and narrow minded than you. A $1.67/year registration sticker with minimal personal info was about the LEAST burdensome and invasive way the FAA could have handled this situation. You can be sure they won't be that nice the second time around after this lawsuit.

 

[DSGDSG]

Sad is the day when citizens of what's supposed to be a free land not only justify but are actually thankful when their government circumvents a system entirely because..."it could have been worse". I understand the silver lining concept, but man, at some point people gotta stand up. I'm expected to operate within the boundaries of rules and law, why should I accept less from my government?

 

[mw174620]

Sad is the day when citizens of what's supposed to be a free land not only justify but are actually thankful when their government circumvents a system entirely because..."it could have been worse". I understand the silver lining concept, but man, at some point people gotta stand up. I'm expected to operate within the boundaries of rules and law, why should I accept less from my government?

What exactly are you standing up for in this case though? Do you not believe that hobby pilots should be held responsible in the event their operation of a model craft injures or kills people? I just don't see the downside to registering your name with a tag number and placing it on your craft. People are acting like this is an overreach by the government. I mean seriously come on, that is absurd. The government spying on you and watching everything you do, is something to stand up for. Fighting a $5 registration fee that provides a way for idiots to be held responsible for their actions, is not something I personally see a reason to fight for. If people want to argue that the registration number being stuck on with a sticker isn't going to help the FAA identify a pilot in the event of a tragic accident, keep pushing. Soon every part will have to be serialized and N#'s registered to craft.

Pick your battles and make sure you know what the outcomes might be. It is not about standing up, it is about limiting government overreach, which is what will happen now that people want to push back over a minimal requirement. It is one **** number, across all your hobby crafts. Get over it.

 

[DSGDSG]

What exactly are you standing up for in this case though? Do you not believe that hobby pilots should be held responsible in the event their operation of a model craft injures or kills people? I just don't see the downside to registering your name with a tag number and placing it on your craft. People are acting like this is an overreach by the government. I mean seriously come on, that is absurd. The government spying on you and watching everything you do, is something to stand up for. Fighting a $5 registration fee that provides a way for idiots to be held responsible for their actions, is not something I personally see a reason to fight for. If people want to argue that the registration number being stuck on with a sticker isn't going to help the FAA identify a pilot in the event of a tragic accident, keep pushing. Soon every part will have to be serialized and N#'s registered to craft.

Pick your battles and make sure you know what the outcomes might be. It is not about standing up, it is about limiting government overreach, which is what will happen now that people want to push back over a minimal requirement. It is one **** number, across all your hobby crafts. Get over it.

::: sigh::: missing the point entirely. It's got nothing to do with whether or not I believe people should be responsible for their actions (I do, and am probably the biggest advocate of that out of anyone here). It's about there being a process in this country. If the process is followed and the outcome is unsatisfactory, well that sucks, however there's not too much that can be done other than working to affect a change. When the process is followed, THEN you can go ahead and say "at least it wasn't worse". But when a government agency arbitrarily/unilaterally creates a law, forcing people to do something under threat of jail or financial penalty if they do not comply, that is wrong. Really, I try and I try but I cannot for the life of me figure out what is so hard to grasp about that concept. Knowing how the US was founded and with what ideals, how can anyone argue that unilateral government action is appropriate?

This is a small thing in the grand scheme of life, I know. However, over your lifetime have you not noticed that all big things started out as small things and when you nip them in the bud from the beginning they just don't get to big things? That new mole on your skin. The small drip from your engine. That crack in the dam. Etc. I sure have and because of that I am not willing to fool myself into thinking my good uncle did me a favor because he didn't stick it to me harder.

 

[AyeYo]

What exactly are you standing up for in this case though? Do you not believe that hobby pilots should be held responsible in the event their operation of a model craft injures or kills people? I just don't see the downside to registering your name with a tag number and placing it on your craft. People are acting like this is an overreach by the government. I mean seriously come on, that is absurd. The government spying on you and watching everything you do, is something to stand up for. Fighting a $5 registration fee that provides a way for idiots to be held responsible for their actions, is not something I personally see a reason to fight for. If people want to argue that the registration number being stuck on with a sticker isn't going to help the FAA identify a pilot in the event of a tragic accident, keep pushing. Soon every part will have to be serialized and N#'s registered to craft.

Pick your battles and make sure you know what the outcomes might be. It is not about standing up, it is about limiting government overreach, which is what will happen now that people want to push back over a minimal requirement. It is one **** number, across all your hobby crafts. Get over it.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[mw174620]

::: sigh::: missing the point entirely. It's got nothing to do with whether or not I believe people should be responsible for their actions (I do, and am probably the biggest advocate of that out of anyone here). It's about there being a process in this country. If the process is followed and the outcome is unsatisfactory, well that sucks, however there's not too much that can be done other than working to affect a change. When the process is followed, THEN you can go ahead and say "at least it wasn't worse". But when a government agency arbitrarily/unilaterally creates a law, forcing people to do something under threat of jail or financial penalty if they do not comply, that is wrong. Really, I try and I try but I cannot for the life of me figure out what is so hard to grasp about that concept. Knowing how the US was founded and with what ideals, how can anyone argue that unilateral government action is appropriate?

This is a small thing in the grand scheme of life, I know. However, over your lifetime have you not noticed that all big things started out as small things and when you nip them in the bud from the beginning they just don't get to big things? That new mole on your skin. The small drip from your engine. That crack in the dam. Etc. I sure have and because of that I am not willing to fool myself into thinking my good uncle did me a favor because he didn't stick it to me harder.

I agree with you in the overall sense that if we always just sat here and let the government walk all over us, we wouldn't have any freedoms left. However, I do not see this battle as one that will have a positive outcome. That is my point. I am saying that this is a battle the model community will eventually lose, because the FAA has already made clear that if the law was challenged, they would just simply change or remove the part of 336 that says they can't make laws governing model aircraft. Which then opens up the model community to even more regulation, the very thing they are fighting to stop.

Perverse incentives lead to unintended consequences. Just because you can fight, doesn't mean you always should.

 

[No1much]

While I'm not sure what this means just yet, I can't think of much that it changes for me- mostly, just the continuing imperative to represent the drone flying community in a responsible and approachable manner.

400 feet is still high enough for me, I do fly beyond VLOS if I'm familiar with the area and know I won't be above people or disturbing them (keeping pretty high up usually).

One thing I hope to know is whether it's now okay to make a buck or two (spare change, seriously) helping a friend with real-estate photography for a proposed construction job. Because that could be nice. And I've already had to turn down requests to buy posters from people online.

 

[mw174620]

While I'm not sure what this means just yet, I can't think of much that it changes for me- mostly, just the continuing imperative to represent the drone flying community in a responsible and approachable manner.

400 feet is still high enough for me, I do fly beyond VLOS if I'm familiar with the area and know I won't be above people or disturbing them (keeping pretty high up usually).

One thing I hope to know is whether it's now okay to make a buck or two (spare change, seriously) helping a friend with real-estate photography for a proposed construction job. Because that could be nice. And I've already had to turn down requests to buy posters from people online.

If you are being compensated for use of your sUAS, you fall under 14 CFR 107. This changes nothing regarding part 107. This is only in reference to people using the drone for hobby use, not having to register with the FAA now. This was decided based on language in the Section 336 law, that states the FAA cannot make any laws or regulations against model aircraft, outside of what was contained in Sec. 336. You still are required to register and have registration attached, until at least May 26th, at which time the FAA can appeal or choose to not appeal, in which case registration of hobby craft only becomes null.