Flying in England

[KhrizJustTravels]

Hello fellow pilots!

I'm traveling to England from the US and I definitely want to take my drone with me. Do any of you have any advice? Thank you!

 

[Gooseman]

We have some basic reg's you need to be aware of.
We have a 400ft ceiling (210 meters), you must always fly with VLOS and within 500mtrs, unless you have observers, 150mtrs from built up or populated areas, 50mtrs from any person, vessel, vehicle or structure not under the control of the PiC and 30mtrs of any person (not in the PiC's contra) in the LRZ. I am sure it's about the same as your regulations.

DroneSafe have an app that's useful, I always check it before flying, NATS also has one called SkyWise that helps out with NOTAMs and such like. You have to subscribe, select what type of alerts you want for your AC (there is a drone category, but you might want to select Airspace alerts, and Airspace changes too.
This is a good app for letting you know if there is any unusual flying nearby (structure inspection, air show, filming, military exercises etc).

Check out the app DroneSafe which is run by NATS, the safety regulatory body (I think) attached to the CAA

Introduction - Dronesafe is a good place to get some in-flight reading!

In terms of privacy and nuisance, the same common sense rules apply.

Have a great time over here, and fly safe.

 

[AeroJ]

Take the UAV and power packs as carry-on luggage - it's illegal to carry LiPos in the main hold and generally a bad idea to trust your craft to any sort of baggage handler no matter how well packed !

UK drone law is subtly different to the States - we aren't allowed to fly over or within 450 ft of any built-up area (towns or crowds etc), and must also stay 150 ft away from buildings, major roads, people and structures. Our 400 ft maximum height rule is AGL,and the US '400 ft extension over landmarks' doesn't apply here. Also we are not allowed to fly at any site run by National Trust or English Heritage, which unfortunately is most of the good bits, and you will run into pretty much instant problems if you try and fly anywhere near the center of London.

You can use the NATS app to check NOTAMS, and that the area you want to fly isn't in an NFZ / controlled airspace, and UAVforecast to get the drone-centric weather / KP index information.

It is difficult trying to find places to fly in the UK, but some general advice would be to try and find public footpaths / bridleways near empty fields you can launch from (we have loads of those !) and out-of-town countryside areas where you have a lot more freedom.

Sorry if that sounds overly negative - I don't mean to put you off, but I figure forewarned is forearmed...

Have an excellent trip and happy flyings !

 

[InvisibleName]

Also we are not allowed to fly at any site run by National Trust or English Heritage

This is not quite so black & white, as discussed in detail elsewhere. If you you takeoff from public land outside the NT or EH control, they can’t stop you overflying their land & property, as long as you apply the other rules about min distance from people & property.

 

[AeroJ]

This is not quite so black & white, as discussed in detail elsewhere. If you you takeoff from public land outside the NT or EH control, they can’t stop you overflying their land & property, as long as you apply the other rules about min distance from people & property.

That's true, though they'll still try and stop you if rangers see you flying ! But if they don't, and your videos don't appear until you are safely back home, then it's difficult to see what they could do in the way of holding you accountable, which might not be the case if you lived here...

 

[zocalo]

That's true, though they'll still try and stop you if rangers see you flying ! But if they don't, and your videos don't appear until you are safely back home, then it's difficult to see what they could do in the way of holding you accountable, which might not be the case if you lived here...

The National Trust etc. do seem to have taken a pretty draconian view, albeit probably due to all the idiots with drones out there and some extremely conservative member views. For buildings with gardens, parkland, etc., yes, absolutely - it's probably impossible to legally fly there anyway due to the required minimum proximity regs, but for the pure countryside areas it feels like it's a bit much and could probably be left to the pilot to ensure legal compliance.

On the plus side, don't confuse National Trust etc. with "National Park Service" or similar as they are not the same thing. It's perfectly fine to fly (subject to general legislation, obviously!) in any areas of the UK's many national parks[1], such as the Lake District, and Areas of Outstanding National Beauty (AONBs), such as the Cotswolds, that are not under the direct control of the various trusts.

[1] The Peak District and New Forest *do* have a ban on drones, but that does not apply where the land is in private ownership - you're supposed to contact the landowner for permission in that case. In short, it's a mess, and you should check the specifics for any location you intend to fly before you fly.

 

[InvisibleName]

So, welcome to the land of ‘Not quite sure!’

 

[zocalo]

So, welcome to the land of ‘Not quite sure!’

More like "check before you fly", but that's pretty standard for most countries that have drone legislation on the books. The CAA's site has a pretty good guide to the legislation, there are the Apps mentioned above, and Googling a specific location will usually give you all the information you need to avoid any trouble if you fly responsibly.

 

[KhrizJustTravels]

Take the UAV and power packs as carry-on luggage - it's illegal to carry LiPos in the main hold and generally a bad idea to trust your craft to any sort of baggage handler no matter how well packed !

UK drone law is subtly different to the States - we aren't allowed to fly over or within 450 ft of any built-up area (towns or crowds etc), and must also stay 150 ft away from buildings, major roads, people and structures. Our 400 ft maximum height rule is AGL,and the US '400 ft extension over landmarks' doesn't apply here. Also we are not allowed to fly at any site run by National Trust or English Heritage, which unfortunately is most of the good bits, and you will run into pretty much instant problems if you try and fly anywhere near the center of London.

You can use the NATS app to check NOTAMS, and that the area you want to fly isn't in an NFZ / controlled airspace, and UAVforecast to get the drone-centric weather / KP index information.

It is difficult trying to find places to fly in the UK, but some general advice would be to try and find public footpaths / bridleways near empty fields you can launch from (we have loads of those !) and out-of-town countryside areas where you have a lot more freedom.

Sorry if that sounds overly negative - I don't mean to put you off, but I figure forewarned is forearmed...

Have an excellent trip and happy flyings !

Thank you! I think I'm safe with he Mavic Pro Ive carry on to Europe and Central America with no issues. I'm definitely not even trying to fly in the city haha, I'll wait until I get way outside Londo, maybe the white cliffs of Dover? Will see!

 

[zocalo]

FYI, part of the White Cliffs of Dover are now owned by the National Trust (info page with map here), so technically their "no drones" bylaw applies.

However, I think the NT only owns a fairly narrow strip of land (a few 100m?) back from part of the cliffs, so you could potentially use their carpark, decamp to public land outside their remit, launch from there, and still maintain VLOS for an CAA compliant overflight, especially if you have strobes and are not right on top of the visitor centre. You're also going to be pretty close to the port of Dover though so there may be some flight restrictions in place as well, but DJI GO would obviously warn you of that if so.

 

[KhrizJustTravels]

FYI, part of the White Cliffs of Dover are now owned by the National Trust (info page with map here), so technically their "no drones" bylaw applies.

However, I think the NT only owns a fairly narrow strip of land (a few 100m?) back from part of the cliffs, so you could potentially use their carpark, decamp to public land outside their remit, launch from there, and still maintain VLOS for an CAA compliant overflight, especially if you have strobes and are not right on top of the visitor centre. You're also going to be pretty close to the port of Dover though so there may be some flight restrictions in place as well, but DJI GO would obviously warn you of that if so.

Thank you! I will keep it in mind, the drone shot would be great but not worth trouble with the law in a foreign country. I think I will save it to the courtry side and use both DJI and Nats app to be safe.

 

[zocalo]

Thank you! I will keep it in mind, the drone shot would be great but not worth trouble with the law in a foreign country. I think I will save it to the courtry side and use both DJI and Nats app to be safe.

Definitely recommend the NATS app for the UK as a backstop to DJI's data.

Worth noting though that the classic shots of the cliffs are taken looking East from around the level of the cliff tops and over the English Channel, which is absolutely OK to fly over as long as you avoid any no fly areas around the port. The trick to full compliance with CAA and National Trust is to find somewhere to take off that is public land, away from buildings etc., and from where you can fly out over the Channel. Once you are airborne and over water, you're good to go as long as you can maintain VLOS with the drone.

I've also done a little more digging as I'd like to try and get these shots myself at some point and it turns out it's not *that* hard to be compliant, especially if you are comfortable with extended flights over open water. Firstly, there are lots of points along the roads between the National Trust visitor centre and South Foreland lighthouse that are perfectly fine and legal to take off from, ascend to altitude, then overfly the cliffs and beach, take some shots and retrieve the drone. You can also legally launch from the beach, if you can do so without breaching the CAA's proximity to people rules, as the National Trust only owns land at the top of the cliffs.

Finally, the National Trust has a map showing *exactly* what the limits of all their properties are. You'll need to switch on a couple of extra layers to get the full coverage, but it's actually nowhere near as bad as I was expecting - even in the worst case you are maybe 500m of coast from a legal take-off point for the entirety of the cliffs.

 

[old man mavic]

great advice from all of the posts enjoy your visit to the UK get some great footage while you are here and enjoy the memories when you are back home

 

[dannybgoode]

I've posted a few times on the legal situation in England as there is some confusion / lack of awareness of the difference between statutory regulations and laws (the Civil Aviation Act etc) and civil law which grants landowners and others certain legal rights (torts) - most pertinently trespass and nuisance. This is cut and pasted from another thread.

---
As I’ve posted a few times, landowners absolutely have the right to prohibit flying over their land at anything under 500’ at least for exactly the same reasons I’m allowed to ask you not to camp in my garden (which also isn’t a criminal offence). Sounds a daft comparison I know but UK civil law is quite daft in some parts . It is exactly this civil nature of trespass and nuisance that the police can’t evict travellers from private land unless the court issues an injunction.

This right is made clear (in typical legalistic language) in the Civil Aviation Act.

Also just to clarify as well you cannot overfly built up areas or crowds at all (simply because with a 120m max altitude you can’t keep 150m distance!) but you can overfly isolated building /people assuming a minimum altitude of 50m as you are adhering to minimum separation.
---

That said the chances of a civil case against you are very slim, particularly if you are asked to move on and you politely pack up and go. Do not for one moment try and argue a legal point quoting drone regs etc though as you will be quoting criminal law which simply is not relevant in most instances. Most of the time you simply won't have any problems at all but it is important to at least be aware of all the facts.

I put in a fair few hours and many of my flights are not strictly over permissive areas or 100% entirely within the regs but I fly sensibly and always plan ahead and try to determine what danger I could cause to others if it all went wrong.

There are some great sites to see in England (and the UK as a whole) - obey rule #1 Don't be a knob and you'll be fine...

 

[old man mavic]

great post could not have put it better myself thanks Dannybgoode

 

[dannybgoode]

great post could not have put it better myself thanks Dannybgoode

I work in a particularly litigious area of commercial insurance and so have studied law to a reasonably high level and am lucky enough to know a few lawyers as well as a National Park ranger and a copper so have researched this very thoroughly.

People still don't believe me though as they think the criminal law and statutory regs somehow trump civil torts when they simply do not

 

[old man mavic]

as you said in a earlier post if you are confronted by the police or a council ranger while flying be polite land if asked to and dont argue with them

 

[dannybgoode]

as you said in a earlier post if you are confronted by the police or a council ranger while flying be polite land if asked to and dont argue with them

Works for me every time. I got approached by some Peak National Park rangers and they asked if I had my PfCO which I didn’t. They then asked my general knowledge of drone regs which I could answer.

They then mentioned that the Park does not allow flying over their land (which was what set me off on all the research as I didn’t think they could enforce that) so I said ‘terribly sorry - didn’t know that’. They were good enough to let me finish the battery before landing so all was good. Turned out one of them had been building his own drones since the days of the early experimenters so had a good chat with him.

Some of the Peak District is private land so during March to October flying is forbidden full stop (due to the number of rare birds species nesting so entirely reasonable and should be respected). Nov to Feb if it’s private land you need to seek permission from the landowner. Good luck with that - just fly as you and I both suggest .

 

[FoxhallGH]

Hello fellow pilots!

I'm traveling to England from the US and I definitely want to take my drone with me. Do any of you have any advice? Thank you!

And - Definitely bring an umbrella!

 

[dannybgoode]

And - Definitely bring an umbrella!