Flying Mini 3 Pro in Large Warehouses?

[Sanpanza]

Hi, I am a commercial photographer in Los Angeles and bought the Mini 3 Pro thinking I could fly it in large warehouses and factories for clients. I am still learning and don't have my 107 yet but I was practicing in a client's movie studio and I found that the Mini 3 Pro would lurch or drift sometimes.

Is there any way to do this without crashing or do I need to invest in an Avata with FPV to do it well?

For some context, I plan on getting my 107 after I learn to fly well enough for my clients and I am not there yet, so this is all just for practice so I can do indoor flights in large buildings for clients.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[TonyPHX]

Depends, what are you trying to do?
What kind of filming or use case inside of the warehouse?

Indoors you are GPS denied/limited so drone is in opti mode.

 

[Sanpanza]

Hi Tony, sometimes logistics companies ask me if I can bring in a drone operator to do an interior drone survey of a warehouse or factory to show capacity and process. They can never do it. These are very large structures with lots of space, so basically I would like to fly an orbit inside and then, if I feel comfortable, perhaps fly into other large rooms within a factory.

I have seen it before but I don't know if it can be done with the Mini 3 Pro. I bought the drone for this based on very bad advice from people on various forums.

I am told many things, like flying in ATTI mode, which is not a manual option on M3P controller or flying it in sports mode, or cine mode. Don't know what is right of if it is even practical with this drone.

 

[TonyPHX]

Well, its out of my league. I have not tried to master the indoors yet. I am sure somebody on here will know what is best to do that!

 

[Meta4]

Hi Tony, sometimes logistics companies ask me if I can bring in a drone operator to do an interior drone survey of a warehouse or factory to show capacity and process. They can never do it. These are very large structures with lots of space, so basically I would like to fly an orbit inside and then, if I feel comfortable, perhaps fly into other large rooms within a factory.

Drones work very well and are easy to fly outdoors because GPS gives position holding.
If you fly inside a building with metal roof and walls or walls made of something else that blocks GPS signal, your drone does not have horizontal position holding (unless it is close enough to the floor and the floor has a suitable texture/pattern for VPS to work and lighting is sufficient).

An additional problem is that without GPS, your drone could have a 5 metre height limit.

I have seen it before but I don't know if it can be done with the Mini 3 Pro. I bought the drone for this based on very bad advice from people on various forums.

The advice was not particularly good.

I am told many things, like flying in ATTI mode, which is not a manual option on M3P controller or flying it in sports mode, or cine mode. Don't know what is right of if it is even practical with this drone.

None of those suggestions will help.
Without GPS and VPS, your drone is in Atti Mode anyway, and has no horizontal position holding.
It has no brakes and will continue moving when you centre the joysticks.
Sport Mode or Cine Mode won't solve the issue of not having GPS and the benefits it provides.

 

[Rchawks]

Before I started flying Drones my employer brought in a flyer and assistant for some factory video footage. Didn't happen they changed their mind after setting up and left. I used to own a MM and use the prop guards and didn't have a problem flying inside. Yes it was more unstable because of lack of GPS, but I thought very workable. I even flew at a friends house that was tri-level which was challenging and fun.
Being a rec flyer and not part 107 it's off the table for me.

 

[Meta4]

To reliably fly with control in a GPS-denied environment, you need a completely different drone like this:

Elios 2 - Indoor drone for confined space inspections

Elios 2 is the most intuitive, reliable, and precise indoor inspection drone. Keep your workforce out of harm’s way while performing flawless inspections right from the first flight using cutting edge drone data capture capabilities

www.flyability.com

Unfortunately they are prohibitively expensive.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

You will very likely only be flying in atti mode with almost any drone.
On the sticks all the time, very limited use of camera gimbals etc to enable concentration on flight.

As long as light is not too low, perhaps the Skydio 2 would be a better choice within a reasonable price range, as it's sensors are more advanced than DJI uses (very high res), more coverage 360o.

What you are getting into is far different to what most of us do here on the forum with their drones.
You might even be better to use some sort of FPV tinywhoop drone, with ducted props, goggles for immersive view, but no OA.

My $ would be on a drone with better OA sensors and coverage, perhaps set up with goggles, you would probably be strafing aisles of racking in a warehouse to view the stock etc, so all round protection of the best kind would be needed.

 

[Meta4]

My $ would be on a drone with better OA sensors and coverage

OA sensors are no use without horizontal position holding ability.
No position holding = no brakes.

 

[Sanpanza]

Drones work very well and are easy to fly outdoors because GPS gives position holding.
If you fly inside a building with metal roof and walls or walls made of something else that blocks GPS signal, your drone does not have horizontal position holding (unless it is close enough to the floor and the floor has a suitable texture/pattern for VPS to work and lighting is sufficient).

An additional problem is that without GPS, your drone could have a 5 metre height limit.

The advice was not particularly good.

None of those suggestions will help.
Without GPS and VPS, your drone is in Atti Mode anyway, and has no horizontal position holding.
It has no brakes and will continue moving when you centre the joysticks.
Sport Mode or Cine Mode won't solve the issue of not having GPS and the benefits it provides.

OK, now i know what won't work but that does not inform me as to what will work. This is actually convincing me that I need to do it since there seem to be so few people who know how to do it.

I have seen videos of people flying inudoors but little info on actually flying indoors.

 

[SethB]

Definitely try some stuff! I’ve done one short indoor project with a Mini 2 under difficult circumstances and around other people - no crashes, nobody got hurt, and I got some good footage.

1) This is not the place to learn to fly. I’d been going maybe 5 years before I flew this project, and it *really* helped that I had good stick control in muscle memory and could focus on the position of the drone.

2) Drones with downward facing optical for avoidance may really help in well-lit environments, because some can go to optical stabilization. As previously stated in this thread, the Atti (Attitude) mode does not have stabilization, and so your drone will drift with the slightest breeze and you’ll have to brake manually to stop motion. You really need to have internalized stick control relative to drone motion to do this successfully.

In my project the room was fairly dark, with lighting on a performer and a black floor. Even if I’d had downward optical sensors available on that drone for stabilization they would not have worked - they need lighting and terrain features to lock onto for stabilization.

3) Prop guards are a common-sense choice for safety for people and your drone!

4) You don’t need a Pt. 107 or even a TRUST certificate; you can lawfully fly indoors because you are not in the National Airspace System at all. The FAA’s authority does not extend under roofs.

5) However, TRUST and Pt. 107 certificates are a good idea, good steps along the way to being a reliable pilot; many of the things you learn have relevance for indoor flying.

Having said all that, and despite all comments above, I would slap some prop guards on and give it a try, once I’d learned to fly!!!

 

[Sanpanza]

Definitely try some stuff! I’ve done one short indoor project with a Mini 2 under difficult circumstances and around other people - no crashes, nobody got hurt, and I got some good footage.

1) This is not the place to learn to fly. I’d been going maybe 5 years before I flew this project, and it *really* helped that I had good stick control in muscle memory and could focus on the position of the drone.

2) Drones with downward facing optical for avoidance may really help in well-lit environments, because some can go to optical stabilization. As previously stated in this thread, the Atti (Attitude) mode does not have stabilization, and so your drone will drift with the slightest breeze and you’ll have to brake manually to stop motion. You really need to have internalized stick control relative to drone motion to do this successfully.

In my project the room was fairly dark, with lighting on a performer and a black floor. Even if I’d had downward optical sensors available on that drone for stabilization they would not have worked - they need lighting and terrain features to lock onto for stabilization.

3) Prop guards are a common-sense choice for safety for people and your drone!

4) You don’t need a Pt. 107 or even a TRUST certificate; you can lawfully fly indoors because you are not in the National Airspace System at all. The FAA’s authority does not extend under roofs.

5) However, TRUST and Pt. 107 certificates are a good idea, good steps along the way to being a reliable pilot; many of the things you learn have relevance for indoor flying.

Having said all that, and despite all comments above, I would slap some prop guards on and give it a try, once I’d learned to fly!!!

Thanks for the info Seth. Did you fly in normal mode, sports or cine mode?

 

[Meta4]

OK, now i know what won't work but that does not inform me as to what will work.

I already pointed out to you that whoever advised that flying in Sport or Cine modes doesn't understand the issues involved in flying indoors.
Neither will solve your problem.

 

[Meta4]

OK, now i know what won't work but that does not inform me as to what will work. This is actually convincing me that I need to do it since there seem to be so few people who know how to do it.

I have seen videos of people flying inudoors but little info on actually flying indoors.

As pointed out above, indoor flying is not an environment that a beginner flyer should expect to be able to easily master.
Anyone can fly indoors, but without proper experience and technique, the results might not be pretty.

 

[SethB]

Thanks for the info Seth. Did you fly in normal mode, sports or cine mode?

Cine for sure, nice and slow and very controlled.

Cine: slowest, with avoidance if available
Normal: normal! with avoidance if available
Sport: Fastest, with avoidance turned off if available.

Meta4’s comments are correct from my perspective; this is not where to learn to fly! Learn to fly in a large open space where you can experiment with these modes, master the camera controls, and start to internalize that all flight controls are relative to the drone’s attitude, not the pilot’s.

This is MUCH huger than it sounds! Without perhaps a few tens of hours of drill on this it’s entirely predictable that you will zig when you wanted to zag. Oops.

Meta4 is also correct to point out that it’s past time to develop your own experience of flying in these modes; whoever said “sport mode is the ticket” is not knowledgable at all. Here I am, another voice on the internet saying don’t listen to those other people, listen to me!, but really, flying an indoors space like a warehouse is for intermediate + pilots.

PS. I mentioned the dark environment I flew in - this means that no obstacle avoidance would be available.

 

[TonyPHX]

I tried to fly inside my house once. Once.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

OA sensors are no use without horizontal position holding ability.
No position holding = no brakes.

The Autel Skydio 2+ is apparently capable for this and other such work, still much bigger $ than a M3P though.

Skydio 2+

The perfect drone for autonomous data capture in tight spaces

www.skydio.com

Ware software and the Skydio 2+ is one warehouse solution I spotted about 2 years ago, and just rediscovered their site searching up the Skydio capability . . .

Gather AI: Warehouse Drones for Inventory Management

Gather AI's warehouse drones for inventory management save money, reduce lost inventory, improve productivity, and increase revenue.

www.ware.ai

 

[Sanpanza]

I already pointed out to you that whoever advised that flying in Sport or Cine modes doesn't understand the issues involved in flying indoors.
Neither will solve your problem.

Yes, it is looking like the advice was inaccurate, but I am patient. Just trying to find the good info amongst all the inaccurate info. Sigh...

I still have to learn how to fly well on the MP3 but a good chunk of my market will be indoors at the moment and I already have the clients. Just trying to find a reasonable path forward with good info.

 

[Sanpanza]

The Autel Skydio 2+ is apparently capable for this and other such work, still much bigger $ than a M3P though.

Skydio 2+

The perfect drone for autonomous data capture in tight spaces

www.skydio.com

Ware software and the Skydio 2+ is one warehouse solution I spotted about 2 years ago, and just rediscovered their site searching up the Skydio capability . . .

Gather AI: Warehouse Drones for Inventory Management

Gather AI's warehouse drones for inventory management save money, reduce lost inventory, improve productivity, and increase revenue.

www.ware.ai

Yes, I had read about Ware and Skydio for automated warehouse inventory, but my purpose is a bit different. My clients ask me if I could do aerial surveys to exhibit their capacity in warehouses and factories and I always have to tell them the drone pilots I hire say it cannot be done.

But I see amazing footage shot inside buildings and, although I don't need it to be cinematic or acrobatic; Just competent initially. I just don't know how they are doing it without looking signal. Perhaps FPV?

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Perhaps FPV?

Quite possibly this is the best way to do this work viably.

I just don't know how they are doing it without looking signal.

FPV has excellent penetration depending on how it’s set up.

Check this thread for getting competent safely (my post here) via simulator or suitable drone.

Who can do this?

Ponz

mavicpilots.com

Also another link below from a fantastic FPV tutorial site, buried in the many tutorials this one regarding fpv frequency / signal considerations.

The Different Frequencies for FPV - Oscar Liang

In this post we will discuss the differences in frequency bands for FPV: 5.8GHz, 2.4GHz, 1.2-1.3GHz and 900MHz. Each of these frequencies have pro’s and con’s such as range, cost, antenna size and regulations. To…

oscarliang.com

I’ve read reviews about the DJI Avata too that are very positive about signal penetration.
Not sure if that might be an option to consider.