Flying with line of sight

Strafe1 · Mar 20, 2017

AyeYo said:
That's where your lack of reading comprehension is demonstrated. Read the opening paragraph of 336. It literally says, the FAA will not regulate model aircraft for hobby use IF you follow all thsee rules. If you don't follow those rules, you're outside 336. If you're outside of 336, Part 107 applies by default, and I already quoted the relevant section of the summary. Use whatever semantics make you happy. The net result is the same.

Your extrapolating information to make your point. This is an assumption.

Strafe1 · Mar 20, 2017

AyeYo said:
That's where your lack of reading comprehension is demonstrated. Read the opening paragraph of 336. It literally says, the FAA will not regulate model aircraft for hobby use IF you follow all thsee rules. If you don't follow those rules, you're outside 336. If you're outside of 336, Part 107 applies by default, and I already quoted the relevant section of the summary. Use whatever semantics make you happy. The net result is the same.[/

AyeYo said:

That's where your lack of reading comprehension is demonstrated. Read the opening paragraph of 336. It literally says, the FAA will not regulate model aircraft for hobby use IF you follow all thsee rules. If you don't follow those rules, you're outside 336. If you're outside of 336, Part 107 applies by default, and I already quoted the relevant section of the summary. Use whatever semantics make you happy. The net result is the same.[/QUO

Click to expand...

Strafe1 · Mar 20, 2017

Since you are the only one who can read and understand, I will bow out of this. You base everything on black and white print, then you extrapolate (make up) conclusions that in your mind naturally follow. You know what you know.

Foxtrot Uniform · Mar 20, 2017

Strafe1 said:
Don't get personal with lack of reading comprehension. You are losing credibility now,

I attended a 4 hour FAA Meet & Greet, organized by NTDUG (North Texas Drone User Group), two weeks ago in Arlington, TX
Great presentation and Q&A from panel of FAA and Safety Reps
Everyone oughta watch. Following is a YouTube link to the first
1 3/4 hr of the presentation.
This may help in understanding Part 101 (hobbyist) and Part 107 (commercial). Also, the seminar also addressed community based guidelines and organization, and the FAA reps specifically stated during the presentation that the rules do not specifically state the "AMA", but a national community based organization.

[/QUOTE]

Blucenturion · Mar 20, 2017

Wombat55 said:
Well, the FAA has the final say, but personally I think that they are behind the times and perhaps still living in an age when drones didn't have high-quality air-to-ground video links and the only way to gain situational awareness of what one's drone is doing is by visually sighting it in the sky. I think that a strong argument can be made that an operator has better situational awareness of their drone by looking down at their controller and the in-flight video display on their smartphone than looking up and spotting the drone in the sky. By looking down one has full information on the status of the drone, including its orientation, distance, height, battery level, motor rpm's, remaining flight time, etc.. By looking up at the drone, what can you learn? If it's at a distance, you can't even tell what the orientation of the drone is just by looking at it. Maybe you can make a very rough guess of its distance and height, but that's about it. Meanwhile, by looking up you're missing out on knowing how much flight time it has left (very important information!) and it's battery level. So, personally, the FAA rules don't make a lot of sense to me.

This is the best post yet, every word logical and true.
Retired FAA Controller

Airmunn · Mar 20, 2017

Bottom line, follow the FAA guide lines and use some sound good judgment. Let's not get wrapped up around axel with all the BS. Go out and fly and have fun.

Blucenturion · Mar 20, 2017

An anecdote, but no less viable as fact, of the futility of all this, trying to get ironclad indemnity from the law, or lawsuit, follows; USCG operates a Dophin helo 2.8 mi from my house. He comes and goes for the most part, 500' or higher. I have experience with this estimate, trust me. Howsome Ever, one of the pilots several years ago, who rented a house one block from me, would come inbound, and in an apparent message to his wife that he had survived the mission, would come in so low that my dishes in the cabinet rattled. Thirteen years living here, with every helo known, I've never heard that. My altitude estimation never got tested, because he was here before I could look for him. A real low flying helo doesn't sound much ahead of its flightpath. Unless it's a Huey, that is. Point is, you can get hit even if you're legally low. T here are yahoos in every type of aviation. Best you can do is try to stay where you're supposed to be, there are no guarantees in life.

Grey Wolf · Mar 20, 2017

Andrew F said:
I'm using mine most often for filming sharks and whales and other amazing creatures in the ocean. It is virtually impossible for me to do this and to keep my eyes on that tiny little Mavic. If my Mavic crashes, the only one who could possibly be hurt is me. As it slowly but inexorably descends to the Bottom of the Sea. I always employ vlos if there is even a one-in-a-million chance that the Drone could crash in a populated area.

What about the poor sharks it might hit while sinking?

iajetpilot · Mar 20, 2017

Grey Wolf said:
What about the poor sharks it might hit while sinking?

If anyone else had posted this it would have been funny....

Oingo Boingo · Mar 20, 2017

MinneapolisFlyGuy said:
One thought about comparing the Mavic to a RC helicopter. The one poster said that you always keep your eyes on an RC helicopter or you're probably not going to be able to go home with it.

My thought when I read that is that when I see the little Mavic as a speck, I can't tell its orientation, so I could not fly it home just from looking at it. I still have to look at my controller to see its orientation. An RC helicopter far away I guess you would trial-and-error it until it seemed to move closer to you.

If youve ever flown an RC heli, u will know why you dont fly it FAR FAR AAWAY

Oingo Boingo · Mar 20, 2017

Jaysjob said:
I read and registered. It doesn't sound like you did by your pithy comment.

I say just go as far and as high as you can. Common sense has no place in this hobby. What ever rocks your plastic dingy

msinger · Mar 20, 2017

Mjwarch said:
I attended a 4 hour FAA Meet & Greet, organized by NTDUG (North Texas Drone User Group), two weeks ago in Arlington, TX
Great presentation and Q&A from panel of FAA and Safety Reps

FWIW, I watched that entire video and came out feeling like I didn't learn much. The FAA reps answered many of the important questions with vague answers (e.g. the community-based organization question) or answered questions by saying it would need to be determined in a court of law.

bucefalo · Mar 21, 2017

well just my feedback to this topic.. about the 4th day since I started to fly my mavic I set distance and altitude to 100mt from me.. in few seconds I didn't look at my mavic cause I was looking on controller and I couldn't see it anymore.. I could hear somehow the noise.. very softly but since I'm a beginner I was in panic

I was "stuck" lol! finally I saw it and drove it back.. but just from my smartphone I wasn't able to get it to me

I was wondering how people can fly it km away.. seriously is like a lottery lol! anyway now I've got a little more confident but still I won't push it too far from my sight.. dangerous and risk too lose it too high!

Andrew F · Mar 22, 2017

bucefalo said:
well just my feedback to this topic.. about the 4th day since I started to fly my mavic I set distance and altitude to 100mt from me.. in few seconds I didn't look at my mavic cause I was looking on controller and I couldn't see it anymore.. I could hear somehow the noise.. very softly but since I'm a beginner I was in panic I was "stuck" lol! finally I saw it and drove it back.. but just from my smartphone I wasn't able to get it to me I was wondering how people can fly it km away.. seriously is like a lottery lol! anyway now I've got a little more confident but still I won't push it too far from my sight.. dangerous and risk too lose it too high!

You just need more experience and maybe a bigger phone. You also need to know where you are relative to the Mavic. You have two maps,, one includes a pictograph of your Mavic and it's direction of travel. You should practice using that so you understand how it works. It works very well - generally. I personally find it much easier to navigate safely looking at the live video than looking at the Mavic. Enjoy the practice!

Johnmcl7 · Mar 22, 2017

bucefalo said:
well just my feedback to this topic.. about the 4th day since I started to fly my mavic I set distance and altitude to 100mt from me.. in few seconds I didn't look at my mavic cause I was looking on controller and I couldn't see it anymore.. I could hear somehow the noise.. very softly but since I'm a beginner I was in panic I was "stuck" lol! finally I saw it and drove it back.. but just from my smartphone I wasn't able to get it to me I was wondering how people can fly it km away.. seriously is like a lottery lol! anyway now I've got a little more confident but still I won't push it too far from my sight.. dangerous and risk too lose it too high!

At the bottom of the DJI Go app there's a little map with an arrow on it which you can click to go full screen, the arrow shows which way your drone is pointing and its current position on the map as well as the route the drone has travelled so you can easily work out which way you need to point it to get it home. You're sensible to keep it nearby though because it can make it a lot easier to get the drone back if you hit problems while flying.

John

mw174620 · May 13, 2017

Has anyone seen any updates from the FAA on this particular topic?

I have been studying and reading the laws extensively. I am about to get my UAS Airman Certification, so I have read and reread the laws numerous times.

I have to agree with AyeYo on this one.

14 CFR 107 is not the regulation of commercial operations of an unmanned aerial system. Here is direct quoted proof from the law, not extrapolations.

14 CFR 107 Applicability
The "operation of civil unmanned aerial systems within the United States" "except as provided in paragraph (b)"
(b) This part does not apply to the following:
(3) Any operation a remote pilot in command elects to conduct pursuant to an exemption issued under section 333 of Public Law 112-95, unless otherwise specified in the exemption.

Unless you have a really good lawyer, I am not sure how you can argue that this is not stating every civil UAS between .55 and 55 pounds, is under part 107, unless they conduct under the exemption contained in section 333, which is the Section 336 exemption.

Section 336 Special Rule for Model Aircraft
(a) IN GENERAL - ...the FAA may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aicraft, or an aircraft being developed asd a model aircraft, if-

As AyeYo stated, the keyword is if. Nowhere in this law does it state that the FAA cannot promulgate rules or regulations about model aircraft. It states it cannot, IF:

(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;

(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;

(3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;

(4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and

(5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport)).

AyeYo is not being condescending, extrapolating, etc. He is reading the law as it is written, and I agree with his assessment. I understand everyone has their own opinion, and I encourage discussion on this, however the language is clear as day. There is no ambiguity in there regarding when you do and don't fall under 14 CFR 107. If you use a drone between .55 and 55 lbs. inside the US borders, you are a civil unmanned aerial system. Per the law, you fall under part 107, unless you abide by all of the rules stated in Section 336, which includes abiding by a community based set of guidelines. Now that is the part where you might say I will find the community that fits the rules I want, but that is up to your judgement and you should probably base that on your ability to hire a good lawyer in the event you screw up.

In regards to visual line of sight, again that depends on who's guidelines you claim to follow.

mkandy · Jun 16, 2018

Daskid said:
In my opinion, I take "line of sight" as a line from the mavic to the controller without any obstructions. It doesn't literally mean to have a visual confirmation of the mavic using your eyes. The mavic could be 3 miles away and you cannot see it. But your controller can still "see" the mavic.

• At all times the small unmanned aircraft must remain close enough to the remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small UAS for those people to be capable of seeing the aircraft with vision unaided by any device other than corrective lenses.

Sorry. Direct quote. Part 107 of faa rules. You can apply for exemptions. For example. I own a 92 acre farm, on hilly terrain. I will apply for an exemption based on the fact that my mavic will only fly within the confines of my property.

It is the government, and they may say **** you.

I will let y'all know!

dbyantis · Jun 16, 2018

Desertdude said:
i was flying my Mavic in an open area about 1/2 mile from my house. Then I got daring and took it up 200 feet and turned it towards my house. It was a cloudy day and when the Mavic was maybe less than half way there I could not see it. I was flying by my iPhone. I paid close attention to make sure I didn't get a weak signal which I didn't.
My question is how how are people flying with line of sight when I only went a 1/2 mile and couldn't see the drone. It was a little scary. If I flew a mile or two what the heck would that be like.

Don't fly further than 1/2 mile is how I solve that issue.