HOA demands that I stop flying drones in the neighborhood. Need advice

[stonecherub]

Based on my experience as president of an Arizona homeowner's association; I think you have a HUMAN problem, the HOA is merely icing on the cake. In your population of residents, you have the normal "Gaussian" distribution of the human property "nasty vs. nice." Somebody on the nasty end of the curve has discovered a power over you they didn't know they had. Bingo! - you're a bad guy and must be punished.

As a cynic, I suspect that the sentence in the letter, "There have been numerous complaints from the community regarding the flying of drones at all times of the day and night." means they heard your drone once, maybe twice. These people are everywhere and are the topic of many posts in this forum.

I regularly fly my old Mavic Pro around our courtyard and nobody has ever noticed.

 

[zeusfl]

This remains me while living in Puerto Rico, the hurricane hit the island leaving us for months without power, and neighbors complain because of the noise of my power generator. It was diesel, very quiet.

Do you know how I solve the problem? 2 power extensions. One to right and one to left and they never heard it anymore.

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

Thats not going to work, the person that reported you is not going to stop if they see you in the Air. I also live in an HOA condo and I had to collect signatures from everyone an attend a an HOA meeting . I had a friend on the Board that helped out. I pointed out that the Leaf Blowers that come at 7am are a real Nuisance and somehow everyone is fine with that intrusion in Privacy and Noise. Good luck bottom line HOA is bad news but great for my roof . lol

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain.

My thoughts are not the noise, but that it is an FPV. Most FPV pilots are not flying over the the canopy, but through the trees and around houses. This would be down in and around the personal spaces of other peoples property. This would and could be the nuisance issues others are complaining about. I agree air space is controlled by the FAA, however, people do have a right to privacy in their own yards below the tree line and under the canopy of the own home.

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

If you are extending beyond Visual Line Of Sight on these "long journeys" outside your neighborhood then you are in violation of FAA regulations. "HOA Karen" could hold that against you if they actually try to find technicalities to restrain you. If you should really be launching/landing outside your neighborhood to safely do what you want to be doing anyway, then that sort of takes the HOA out of the equation.

Still fly, courteously, in your neighborhood if only to reinforce that the airspace belongs to the FAA.

And with an FPV and the short flight times they have, I would guess that he is not flying up and outside of the HOA. But rather through other properties. Which may be the problem.

 

[Torque]

i often wondered what recourse the HOA would have if an HOA member either (1) used the public roads from within the HOA property to launch and recover OR (2) flew into the same area from outside the HOA’s jurisdiction.

And yet another question, what if a non HOA member followed either of these protocols?

I agree that the typical Sunday morning lawn mower and weed whacker make more noise.

I‘d like to hear Vic Moss’ take on this.

I am curious what Vic Moss would advise as well. I live in an HOA community and so far no problems. I fly my minis mostly in the neighborhood, and rarely fly my Avata or FPV drone due to the noise. But when I do fly those two it is in the middle of the day when most neighbors are at work.
And I disagree that FPV pilots are only flying slightly above ground, through trees and around houses....lol. I only fly at 100ft or more when flying in neighborhoods, regardless of the drone I'm piloting.

 

[Reelman67]

I live in a neighborhood without an HOA. However, it is a close knit community, having a private messaging group on Facebook. I know there are 3 "karens" who live here and who have voiced their dislike of drones. One of them approached me during a short flight several lots over from her and she asked that I not fly over her house. I politely responded that I did not fly over her house, and that I would not do so in the future. To tell you the truth, I find flying in the neighborhood to be rather boring and will most likely cease flying here for that reason. I look for new places to fly, preferring more remote wide open spaces, avoiding people and development.

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

I am curious what Vic Moss would advise as well. I live in an HOA community and so far no problems. I fly my minis mostly in the neighborhood, and rarely fly my Avata or FPV drone due to the noise. But when I do fly those two it is in the middle of the day when most neighbors are at work.
And I disagree that FPV pilots are only flying slightly above ground, through trees and around houses....lol. I only fly at 100ft or more when flying in neighborhoods, regardless of the drone I'm piloting.

Not saying all FPV pilots fly this way, but I would guess newer or inexperienced FPV pilots would as they are limited in experience and battery life. And if there are lots of tree which the op did not mention, then they would be flying BVLOS. With the higher speeds and BVLOS it would seem to be a risky venture in a housing area.

 

[anotherlab]

While an HOA has no jurisdiction over FAA-controlled airspace, it is relatively free to impose its own restrictions on activities that occur on the grounds of the HOA. Your best bet would be to meet with the HOA board privately and see if there is a way to find some common ground. Offer to provide the board with a demonstration of the drone and show that it is less of a nuisance than lawn maintenance equipment. Show that you don't fly at night.

I live in an HOA community and have not had any issues with my drone. I don't fly often within the HOA and it's usually at 200 ft. When people ask about the drone, I'll show the screen and ask if they would like a picture of their home. I have also supplied images for the HOA newsletter and for the HOA website.

 

[zeusfl]

Try selling the drone as a neighborhood watch service !!! Please call me if you see something strange, I will send the drone for you. LOLLLLL

Some times is play with their mentality. They will feel secure !!

 

[solidhouse]

And with an FPV and the short flight times they have, I would guess that he is not flying up and outside of the HOA. But rather through other properties. Which may be the problem.

The street I live on is a large 2 mile circle. On the inside of the circle is a multi acre conservation area of very thick woods. It’s this conservation area that I fly through the woods and over the top to do that Ariel maneuvers.

 

[DaveS]

A lot had already been written on this. Allow me to add from the perspective of a former officer on an HOA board. If the HOA really wants to play tough on this, depending on their rules, they may "fine" you. If you ignore the fine, they keep adding interest to it. If you continue to ignore it, they may take out a lien on your home. That's really bad news because you cannot sell your home or get buildings permits from the city to do renovation work, until the lien is removed and that can only be done by paying the fine and all the interest. May I suggest you get a device that measures sound in decibels, then walk around your neighborhood a few different days and nights and measure noise coming from other devices like lawnmowers, blowers, etc. Keep detailed notes and include photos. Take that log along with the FAA rules to an HOA board meeting and present it. If they ignore all that, then your only choices are, get a lawyer and fight them, or stop flying in, or from, your neighborhood. However, I agree with the others who say that last option is bad. It gives these stupid little organizations power they should not have. Banning drones today leads to what...banning all use of RC toys, banning Go Carts, scooters, banning the neighborhood rock band practicing in the garage and more!?!

 

[anotherlab]

In addition to what @DaveS wrote, review the latest version of your HOA rules and make sure that they are being applied correctly. You can get a decibel meter for less than $20 on Amazon. If your HOA provides lawn mowing services, the leaf blowers are going to be louder. And the odds there will be more than one leaf blower being run at the same time.

If you have to take the HOA to court, then you have lost already. You are facing legal costs and time to fight this. And you'll have an adversarial relationship with the HOA board and some of the neighbors.

The only way to win the fight is by not having the fight in the first place. Change their minds. Also, consider running for the board. It's harder to rule against a known face than just another resident. If you serve on the HOA, you get a voice in voting down any rule that targets drones.

 

[dart106]

I live in an HOA neighborhood. My flights originate out of my property and common areas. In consideration of my neighbors, safety, and potential “Karens”, I always go straight up to at least 150’ or higher and fly only over common areas and streets. I don’t fly over cars, people or other resident’s property. For the most part, I fly high enough that the average person doesn’t hear or see my Mini 2 even though I fly with upper and lower strobes so I can maintain visual with it. Some of my drone videos and stills have been contributed to the neighborhood FB page and well received.

Part 107, TRUST, and CBO on hand.

 

[Trackerputnam]

There are so many things much noisier that the drone! I would be complaining everytime a lawn mower starts. A leaf blower. Chainsaw. They would be getting multiple calls a day and I would be stuffing their same ordinance back in their face!

 

[LoudThunder]

I really don’t want to challenge the HOA on this issue.

You are not just governed by the by-laws of the HOA and the rules and rugulations as estableished by the FAA, but also by State Law. Below is a link to a commonly referenced collections of the Florida Laws, however a more concise review might be in order…

Drone Laws in Florida (2024) - UAV Coach

A list of drone regulations and links for people flying drones in Florida.

uavcoach.com

Now, of interest are two laws governing the flying of Drone in Florida…

One, HB 1027 // 2017 Prohibits local regulations from limiting the use of Drone and restricts that to the sate legislature…

However, the HOA is probably very concerned with the Camera on board and this state law severely limits what you can photograph and video tape…

SB 766 // 2015 prohibits the use of a drone to capture an image of privately owned property or the owner, tenant, or occupant of such property without consent if a reasonable expectation of privacy exists. And I will tell you now, even as a Part 107 Licensed Drone Pilot, I would be very upset to have a drone flying slowly over my property, with the pilot "snooping" or videotaping me in my yard…

My final thoughts are based on how you might fly your new toy, the DJI FPV, and this is based on how I've seen these drone flown… As you mentioned, when you flew your Mavic 3 and Mini 3 Pro, there were no issues, and that is probably because these are basically cinematic drones, they fly high and slow… However, the FPVs are very often flown Fast, Law, and in a very Acrobatic Way, Swoops, Loops, Flips, etc…

Inquiring Mind Want to Know…

 

[Deleted member 170519]

You say you like to fly long distances ( I am assuming to get to where you actually want to fly ) which may be in violation of VLOS. I'd rather abide by the HOA rules, instead of going against the FAA rules. My suggestion, travel to where you want to fly outside the HOA and happy stress free flying.

 

[moldorf]

I understand that the HOA may be stretching a little to disallow drones, At the same time, if the covenants and restrictions were in place when you bought the property, fighting the HOA on this issue would be an uphill battle

a simple solution, if you don't want the drama of a battle you could lose, is to find other places to fly. Just saying the HOA is against it seems to ignore that some of your neighbors are against it. Why create that friction? Feuds are still feuds even when you're 'right'

I'd be pretty reluctant to fly a Mavic 3 over people's homes in any event.

 

[Felix le Chat]

Thanks for posting the text of the enforcement letter that was pushed through your door. Any kind of HOA agreement is like any other consensual agreement between groups of people that features set terms written down, you don't get the clear message that it is, in essence, a legally binding contract until you are on the sharp end of being told you have "failed to comply" with one point or another.

As soon as you agreed to the HOA terms, you became bound by them, but you also discovered that the definition of specific terms like "noise" or "nuisance" are catch-alls - which can be twisted very easily to encompass whatever the board of governors(?) want them to include. In this regard, I spotted those two simple words that seem so innocuous, but failed to spot any clear and definitive laying out of the detailed and accepted definition of those words in the context of the HOA agreement.

Unfortunately, any council (private or Local Government) has the right to determine whether the land they administer (by Law, or by General Consent) can be used as a TOAL point (this might not be a caveat present in the current version of the HOA agreement - but I'll bet you a buck it will be in the next revision that you'll have to put your monicker to). Where I live: this means that any park or area deemed to be a public place is off-limits to drone users.

I can only comment with accuracy concerning English Law here: but by telling you this: it may point you in a direction where you might find that a legal precedent has already been set in your County/State that might give you the ammunition to put up a strong fight to maintain your right to pursue your hobby, but, once a cabal of private individuals placed in a position of authority over others decide to put their foot on the neck of someone who "isn't the right kind of person" for their vision of a Perfect Community: there isn't a **** thing you will be able to do other than a) sell-up, move somewhere sensible and flip 'em the bird as you drive out into the real world, or b) carry on living there - toe their line and comply.

In English Law: there have been two Legal Precedents set. The first regarding the overflight of private property and the second reinforcing that one point, but also ruling with regard to a secondary claim that overflight caused "...noise, nuisance as well as invasion of privacy..."

The first Ruling (1815) found that a private landowner had no right to inhibit anyone or anything man-made overflying his property.

The second Precedent (1978) also found that a private landowner cannot restrict or inhibit aircraft from overflying his property. The same court also ruled that the overflight of this property would not have caused noise or nuisance whereby the landowners standard of life would suffer detrimentally. At the same time: this 1978 Precedent dealt with aerial photography - finding that this did not impinge on the landowners right to privacy.

A clever lawyer who can be pointed in the right direction may well find that in State Law, similar historic Rulings have been passed - after all: the 1815 Ruling I detailed above was with regard to a manned balloon flight - but it can still be applied right up to the modern day with regard to any other manned, or unmanned flying object because it is a Legal Ruling that has never been overturned.

For what it's worth: my own reaction would be to knuckle-up because I don't like being dictated to like an unruly child, but... and it's a BIG 'but'... hard personal experience has taught me that fronting-up to an administrative body is an exercise in frustration and futility because IF you did manage to pull the "authority" rug out from under them in one respect: they will always find another snipe-nosed, turd-skinning way to chop your legs out from under you.

Scout a series of interesting spots with Google Earth, pack your family (and the drone) into the car and take a day trip somewhere else that is more worthy of photography.

 

[Nanny Ogg]

Does the HOA allow residents to operate gas powered leaf blowers? Challenge them to prove that a drone is more annoying than a leaf blower.

 

[Dbez1]

My recommendation would be a humility approach. You could start with an informal discussion with one of the board members and explain that you would like to continue to fly but would be willing to change your practices so as not to disturb other community residents.

I think FLDave has a good common sense approach as do some others who ho have responded. These are your neighbors and living there will be much more pleasant without contention. Go to the meeting (after explaining your willingness to quit flying the fpv one-on-one with several board members beforehand). Maybe even a demonstration. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Best wishes for a congenial outcome.