HOA demands that I stop flying drones in the neighborhood. Need advice

[Ralph thompson]

I worked for a very smart and successful businessman once. His contracts department had no lawyers. He said many times, something like "I don't want lawyers dealing with our clients". Outside legal advice was consulted occasionally. His company became THE world leader in pilot training and flight simulation. Granted this was in Canada and not the USA but his clients were in many countries around the world. If you're having disagreements with neighbours, you need to work it out, understand their issues, compromise, invite them all to a garden BBQ and discuss. Make friends not enemies, forget the lawyers, nobody benefits from this type of petty squabbling.
Must be pretty boring operating a drone in your home neighbourhood day after day.

 

[mobilehomer]

Or you could use the "turn the tables" gambit. File a complaint any time the HOA board members are doing anything that can be heard outside their property. As an example, there are communities that consider a car sound system to be too loud if it can be heard at 25'!! Yes, that is ridiculous, because the navigation voice can be heard at that distance. But you get my point. Use the complaint system against the board members until you get a reasonable solution.

 

[FLDave]

It's important to understand how your HOA operates BEFORE you purchase your unit. This information is available in the official documents. Is it a Property Owners Association, A Condo Association, or a Cooperative Association. Generally the Association will have monthly Board of Direct Meetings to manage the business affairs. These meetings will be open to members, but members don't get to vote on business matters but will have a scheduled chance to give a short speech.
If you have a grievance just follow the procedure outlined in the Association documents.
If you want to challenge violation you need to follow procedures in the documents.
Also, at the annual meeting be sure to vote in directors sympathetic to your concerns or, better yet, volunteer to be a director at the next election when a position opens.

 

[FLDave]

This is our second restricted community and I would never consider just "joy ride" flying my Air 2s. There are too many homes and people. On the other hand I've done a lot of flying in the community to produce videos which others enjoy.
Adhering to regulations and being respectful of others in the community are extremely important. Getting to know "neighbors" is important. I have a YouTube channel just for our community activities. Besides drone flying a 360 degree camera on a 10-foot selfie can be a good option.

 

[GFields]

I guess the trick will be HOE property end on the land. Once you take off from your property 100FT - 150FT up is FAA problem sices they can not rule airspace.

There is not the difference between lunch from outside the neighborhood and flyover.

Incorrect.

It is important to not confuse FAA regulations with other local laws and regulations. As stated by the OP, the letter from the HOA pointed out the “nuisance” clause in the HOA rules this is completely enforceable by the HOA and local law enforcement.

If the "nuisance" is the noise the drone makes, I think the best approach would be to compare the drone noise with the leaf blower mentioned earlier.

 

[KD2SSP]

I would get a decibel meter and measure the decibels of your drone at different heights/distances. That way you have some objective level of noise documented.

You can then compare that to the noise of lawn mowers, snow blowers, or the neighbors Harley like someone mentioned to show them that your flying is a relatively quiet activity.

Just keep your cool stay professional. I wouldn't even respond to the letter. In the end a cease and desist is just a strongly worded suggestion.

 

[apeel]

Hello everyone,

I’ve received a letter today from my HOA demanding that I stop flying my drones in the neighborhood. The HOA doesn’t have anything specific to drones, however, they cited the “nuisance” clause in the HOA rules.

A little background, I’ve been flying various drones in the neighborhood for quite some time without any issues. I mostly fly my Mavic 3 and Mini 3 Pro. It wasn’t until recently that I’ve purchased and started flying a DJI FPV in the neighborhood as well. I believe it was this drone which caused the outrage here due to the excessive noise. I actually understand their concern about the noise and don’t plan on flying it anymore in the neighborhood.

With my Mavic 3 and Mini 3 pro, I usually take off from my driveway and the immediately fly outside of the neighborhood and go in some rather long journeys. I would like to continue taking off from my property with these 2 drones and take them outside of the neighborhood as usual.

I really don’t want to challenge the HOA on this issue. I’m actually thinking about going stealth with the HOA situation. Has anyone here ever encountered an issue like this before? Does anyone know how I can take off from my property without the neighbors hearing these drones? I was thinking about running a loud vacuum cleaner while taking off or running some other type of distraction / diversion while taking off. I like on 1 acre so could easily take off from the side or back of my yard and hopefully go straight up until the drone cannnot be seen. All of the others neighbors are on 1-3 acre lots so we are not exactly on rope of each other.

Any advice I can get for this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

SH

Although you are within your 'legal' rights to take off from your property and fly, I would be careful too ensure that your remain legal when flying. I reference your statement "With my Mavic 3 and Mini 3 pro, I usually take off from my driveway and the immediately fly outside of the neighborhood and go in some rather long journeys." Not sure what you mean by "some rather long distance", but if you do not maintain line of site with the drone, then you would not be flying legally. Any arguments you have with the HOA could lead to a complaint to the legal authorities, who if investigate, could determine if you are in fact staying legal with your flights wrt BVLOS.

Also, I do not own a FPV, so am not 100% sure of this next statement, but I think you need to have a spotter if you are flying using your goggles as visual line of site does not include the goggles (as I understand it). Others, please correct me if I am wrong on this last point.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

To tell you the truth, I find flying in the neighborhood to be rather boring

This is what I don't get, it shouldn't be somewhere most UAV pilots want to fly.
I can understand a bit of a pre trip test flight occasionally to make sure all is good, but repeated flights aver the same area just seems pointless to me.

Regarding the OPs post, I feel it should be possible to get agreement not to fly the FPV drone in future, but do what you've always done with the M3P and even the M3, they seem to have been fine in the past.

It might work to put it to the next HOA meeting, but the other side of the coin is you've awoken the sleeping giant, maybe those aircraft will be noticed by those complainants, even though they weren't bothered by them before.

 

[Robert Prior]

lawnmowers, leaf blowers, motorcycles

Silly suggestion: have someone run a loud lawnmower or whatever to cover the sound of your takeoff and landing.

 

[FLDave]

I would get a decibel meter and measure the decibels of your drone at different heights/distances. That way you have some objective level of noise documented.

You can then compare that to the noise of lawn mowers, snow blowers, or the neighbors Harley like someone mentioned to show them that your flying is a relatively quiet activity.

Just keep your cool stay professional. I wouldn't even respond to the letter. In the end a cease and desist is just a strongly worded suggestion.

Not responding is not a good idea. The HOA likely has certain steps to take if the problem is not addressed by the member. This is like a fine which would be levied against the member each month until the issue is resolved. The member needs to read and understand the powers given to the HOA by the official documents which the member agreed to observe by moving into the community. The official violation notice is not merely a suggestion; it is a violation notice with consequences.

 

[DARKSeifer]

Just takeoff, climb to 120m in a vertical line (like a rocket) in normal mode, then fly away asap in normal mode and descend to whatever altitude you want past 300m or so; same when you return home, fly normally and when you are at 300m or so climb to 120m and then descend over your garden and pick up the drone.

No one will notice. People notice drones when they are hovering or moving slowly, specially at low alt or at night due to leds; do that maneuver and put some black electric tape on the leds and no one will bother you again unless they come with the Karen app.

You'll never notice a high altitude Mavic/Mini/Air moving at high speed.

PS: The other approach is fly low (this one is maybe for the FPV), at low altitude obstacles block the sound of the drone, so you won't hear it until it's super close.

 

[zeusfl]

You want to stay legal. Light's are required at nights and not pass 120M or 400FT if the location allowed. Do not play with that. Is the Law.

 

[DARKSeifer]

You want to stay legal. Light's are required at nights and not pass 120M or 400FT if the location allowed. Do not play with that. Is the Law.

Then don't do it and realize too late that the only safe way to fly drones nowadays is under the radar.

At the beginning, two-three years ago, I flew my drone at night a few times just to realize pictures of it were appearing on local FB groups. Put some electric tape and problem solved, no more undesired attention and kept flying like nothing.

The only victory is the battle you don't have to fight. No problems with HOAs, no problems with neighbours, with local authorities, etc. No one sees your drone = everybody is happy. 500+ hours of flight and just 3-4 karens that didn't gave any fight at all.

 

[solidhouse]

Silly suggestion: have someone run a loud lawnmower or whatever to cover the sound of your takeoff and landing.

Great suggestion. I’m thinking laying low for several weeks first and then run my leaf blower when taking off and landing with the M3 or M3P

 

[4 inch pistons]

And all of this my friends is why I live in a God forsaken rural area in eastern NC where the whole county has a total of 5 stop lights. That is not a type O. I suffer for a lot of wants, but today I flew my Avata and yesterday I flew my FPV from my front yard while sitting on my front porch. Nobody knew---nobody cared.

Seven years ago I interviewed for a property manager job in Merritt Island Florida while I was unemployed. All went well until I mentioned my Honda F6B and I was told motorcycles were not allowed. I had a trailer I could store it in and as bike owners know Goldwings with stock exhausts are completely silent. Didn't matter. Short story---I am still in Eastern NC and still own a motorcycle and now fly FPV from my front porch.

Don't ask about my spotter.

 

[zeusfl]

I will probably join you in few years !!!

 

[Don Testme]

A lot had already been written on this. Allow me to add from the perspective of a former officer on an HOA board. If the HOA really wants to play tough on this, depending on their rules, they may "fine" you. If you ignore the fine, they keep adding interest to it. If you continue to ignore it, they may take out a lien on your home. That's really bad news because you cannot sell your home or get buildings permits from the city to do renovation work, until the lien is removed and that can only be done by paying the fine and all the interest. May I suggest you get a device that measures sound in decibels, then walk around your neighborhood a few different days and nights and measure noise coming from other devices like lawnmowers, blowers, etc. Keep detailed notes and include photos. Take that log along with the FAA rules to an HOA board meeting and present it. If they ignore all that, then your only choices are, get a lawyer and fight them, or stop flying in, or from, your neighborhood. However, I agree with the others who say that last option is bad. It gives these stupid little organizations power they should not have. Banning drones today leads to what...banning all use of RC toys, banning Go Carts, scooters, banning the neighborhood rock band practicing in the garage and more!?!

I made sure that , I DID NOT BUY A HOUSE IN AN HOA. Hoa's are nasty. It's like a pretty prison. My worry is the Leins they can put on your house. I would just drive to a point outside the neighborhood and fly from their. You can't be that lazy to want to stay at home and fly. especially since you have an insane HOA. Just go somewhere in public and launch from there.

For fun I would take off oustide my neighborhood where I can't be noticed taking off or landing. Then I would buzz the neighborhood at about 100 ft. but not hover.

I am surrounded by HOA neighborhoods and fly into them all the time. They must get really pOd. Especially the golfing community ones.

 

[WDKZoom]

I live in a neighborhood without an HOA. However, it is a close knit community, having a private messaging group on Facebook. I know there are 3 "karens" who live here and who have voiced their dislike of drones. One of them approached me during a short flight several lots over from her and she asked that I not fly over her house. I politely responded that I did not fly over her house, and that I would not do so in the future. To tell you the truth, I find flying in the neighborhood to be rather boring and will most likely cease flying here for that reason. I look for new places to fly, preferring more remote wide open spaces, avoiding people and development.

I prefer to fly in the wide open areas as I am also living in an HOA but when I don’t have the time or desire to get in my car and go searching, I will fly on my street to exercise my batteries and keep that muscle memory going.

WDK

 

[DARKSeifer]

You'll never get good at it if you don't train regularly.

I fly long range almost every day from my garden, but live in the outskirts on a rather unpopulated area. I'm not door to door with anyone, so not much trouble to be expected, even with Mavic 3 broadcasting my location at 2.7+Km I'm still in my property, so good luck trespassing.

When I go out, I nearly always bring my drone with me; just find a clear spot and do the same procedure, up to 120m and asap 300m away, then sit and enjoy the flight.

Keep low profile and you'll fly where, when and how you want without anyone even noticing. Over regulation is just there to kill the hobby and free the <120m to the big companies, so I don't care about it anymore, let the fines come, I'll pay them and live to fly another day.

 

[KD2SSP]

Not responding is not a good idea. The HOA likely has certain steps to take if the problem is not addressed by the member. This is like a fine which would be levied against the member each month until the issue is resolved. The member needs to read and understand the powers given to the HOA by the official documents which the member agreed to observe by moving into the community. The official violation notice is not merely a suggestion; it is a violation notice with consequences.

I see two possible courses of action from here,

If OP agrees with their opinion that he's causing a nuisance and stops flying then no further action is necessary (tacit agreement) as it says in the letter.

If OP does not agree that he's violating terms of the HOA then he should reply with facts and his intention to initiate the arbitration process. I think an objective 3rd party would rule in his favor. Court would be la$t re$ort.