Illegal to fly over a "federal railroad" ???

[Gagey52]

That’s in our photo ‘s and that guy flys in open cars , under cars
and all around the train and it’s moving pretty fast.
This is it I think.

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Unbelievable.
Thanks for sharing

 

[dirkclod]

Unbelievable.
Thanks for sharing

It had already been posted I just found it. Had that been me the video would have stoped when he fly through the first bridge.

 

[Robert Prior]

I recall that during the G20 protests in Toronto the police used a law dating back to WWI to justify violating civil liberties in certain areas. And post-911 in America photographers have gotten in trouble for taking pictures of office buildings that happen to contain an (unmarked) office of one of the many American intelligence outfits. In some places taking pictures of a farm is illegal.

So it's entirely possible that it's illegal. It's also entirely possible that it's perfectly legal, and the cop is either wrong or just throwing his weight around.

If Stopped for Photographing in Public

Taking photographs and video of things that are plainly visible in public spaces is a constitutional right—and that includes transportation facilities, the outside of federal buildings, and police and other government officials carrying out their duties.Unfortunately, law enforcement officers...

www.acludc.org

Contacting the ACLU might be a good start. So would requesting the actual statutes that prohibit flying from the railway.

 

[spsphotos]

Railroad cops have NO authority outside of railroad property. As for the "federal" aspect of flying over the track, I'm prone to think he was full of crap and just being a bully. He obviously had no clue about FAA rules and laws. You did the right thing by not escalating it, but next time, get the person's name, badge number, and supervisor, and then contact the FAA and the Railroad main office to discuss the situation. And as someone else said, always try to record any encounter on your phone for future reference and protection. There are actually apps where the video is sent to the cloud immediately so even if someone tries to take your phone or damage it the video will be safe. But, I'll bet money that he was lying. Were you on the tracks or side road when he approached you?
BTW, you CAN fly over national parks, for the most part, you just can't take off or land in them.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

Railroad cops have NO authority outside of railroad property. As for the "federal" aspect of flying over the track, I'm prone to think he was full of crap and just being a bully. He obviously had no clue about FAA rules and laws. You did the right thing by not escalating it, but next time, get the person's name, badge number, and supervisor, and then contact the FAA and the Railroad main office to discuss the situation. And as someone else said, always try to record any encounter on your phone for future reference and protection. There are actually apps where the video is sent to the cloud immediately so even if someone tries to take your phone or damage it the video will be safe. But, I'll bet money that he was lying. Were you on the tracks or side road when he approached you?
BTW, you CAN fly over national parks, for the most part, you just can't take off or land in them.

You might want edit your comment about they have no authority outside of railway property as it seems that is a false statement.

Union Pacific Special Agents & Police Dispatch

The Union Pacific Police Department Special Agents have have primary jurisdiction over crimes committed against the railroad. The department is responsible for all Union Pacific locations across 32,000 miles of track in 23 states. Its success has served as a model for national crime management...

www.up.com

History — The Railroad Police

www.therailroadpolice.com

The railroad police officer’s law enforcement powers shall apply only on railroad property, except that an officer may pursue off railroad property a person suspected of violating the law on railroad property, and an officer may engage off railroad property in law enforcement activities, including without limitation, investigations and arrest, if permissible under state law.

 

[Crash Gibby]

Yup, the funny thing is most of the “critical infrastructure,” that cannot be filmed with a drone anyone walking by with a cell phone can video the area and nothing will happen to them. Go figure.

I agree, Agustine. There are cameras out there that can get closer and see as much or more than a drone could.

 

[Vic Moss]

There is one place, and one place only, the shows just what airspace is protected by the Federal Government. That's the FAA's UAS Data Map, AKA "Visualize it".

Railroads are NOT considered Critical Infrastructure by the FAA. They may consider themselves CI, but they're full of poop when it comes to their airspace.

A friend of my was a 107 Pilot for one of the major railroads, and he told me that basically their cops want to intimidate someone into not flying. But unless you are on their property, they have ZERO authority to make you land. This is why it's important to know the rules when it comes to airspace and what is CI and what isn't.

If you're unsure, put the address in the search box here: ArcGIS Web Application, and make sure the "National Security UAS Flight Restrictions" box is checked.

If it's checked, and the airspace is clear, tell the RR cop to he needs to understand airspace authority a bit better. Tell him to call the real cops if he wants, but you know for a fact that there is no such thing as a restriction over his property.

 

[spsphotos]

You might want edit your comment about they have no authority outside of railway property as it seems that is a false statement.

Union Pacific Special Agents & Police Dispatch

The Union Pacific Police Department Special Agents have have primary jurisdiction over crimes committed against the railroad. The department is responsible for all Union Pacific locations across 32,000 miles of track in 23 states. Its success has served as a model for national crime management...

www.up.com

I stand corrected.

 

[Vic Moss]

You might want edit your comment about they have no authority outside of railway property as it seems that is a false statement.

Union Pacific Special Agents & Police Dispatch

The Union Pacific Police Department Special Agents have have primary jurisdiction over crimes committed against the railroad. The department is responsible for all Union Pacific locations across 32,000 miles of track in 23 states. Its success has served as a model for national crime management...

www.up.com

They have no authority to make you land if they're not on RR property. There is no crime, so they have no authority.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

They have no authority to make you land if they're not on RR property. There is no crime, so they have no authority.

diction and authority
Some railroad police officers are certified law enforcement officers and may carry full police and arrest powers. The appointment, commissioning, and regulation of railroad police under Section 1704 of the U.S. Crime Control Act of 1990, provides that: "A railroad police officer who is certified or commissioned as a police officer under the laws of any one state shall, in accordance with the regulations issued by the U.S. Secretary of Transportation, be authorized to enforce the laws of any other state in which the rail carrier owns property."

It is important to note that Section 1704 also states that this police authority is to "the extent of the authority of a police officer certified or commissioned under the laws of that jurisdiction". While railroad police officers may have general peace officer authority in some states such as California, they are limited to the railroad's property in other states.

The status of railroad police officers varies by state, in that they are commissioned by the governor of the state in which they reside and/or work in and they may carry both state level arrest powers and some interstate arrest powers as allowed by 49 USC 28101. Although railroad police primarily enforce laws on or near the railroad right-of-way, their police officers can enforce other laws and make arrests off of railroad property depending on the state in which they are working.

Depending upon the state or jurisdiction, railroad police officers may be considered certified police officers, deputized peace officers, or company special agents. In Virginia, for example, any railroad may file an application with the circuit court of any county where it operates to allow the president of the railroad to appoint members of its own police force.

Some of the crimes railroad police investigate include trespassing on the right-of-way of a railroad, assaults against passengers, terrorism threats targeting the railroad, arson, tagging of graffiti on railroad rolling stock or buildings, signal vandalism, pickpocketing, ticket fraud, robbery, and theft of personal belongings, baggage, or freight. Other incidents railroad police investigate include derailments, train/vehicle collisions, vehicle accidents on the right of way, and hazardous materials releases.

 

[Silverback60]

Yesterday, a western railroad employee ordered me to land immediately. He claimed that I violated federal law by flying over a "federal railroad". No national parks, airports, crowds or secure areas were involved. I complied immediately.
Once I landed my drone, I asked the employee for clarification. He claimed that he had full authority to shoot down the drone if I ever violated this order under his watch, and to arrest me for non-compliance. No discussion, objections or comments were permitted. Since I already had my photograph, and no supporting book of drone regulations, I left the area.
Supporting details: I flew approx. 100 feet above his railroad tracks for the purpose of photographing a well-known Amtrak station out West. No trains were in the area, nor were there any passengers in the area.
I am considering a making a complaint phone call to the railroad, but I request this community's thoughts. Thank you for your responses.

Thats absolutely disgusting ! Do you pay your taxes? If you do you should remind him( however politely you can muster)that he actually works for you and ask him what federal law if any you had broken such a shame that they give guns to nuts like that! Fly safe my friend!

 

[Vic Moss]

diction and authority
Some railroad police officers are certified law enforcement officers and may carry full police and arrest powers. The appointment, commissioning, and regulation of railroad police under Section 1704 of the U.S. Crime Control Act of 1990, provides that: "A railroad police officer who is certified or commissioned as a police officer under the laws of any one state shall, in accordance with the regulations issued by the U.S. Secretary of Transportation, be authorized to enforce the laws of any other state in which the rail carrier owns property."

It is important to note that Section 1704 also states that this police authority is to "the extent of the authority of a police officer certified or commissioned under the laws of that jurisdiction". While railroad police officers may have general peace officer authority in some states such as California, they are limited to the railroad's property in other states.

The status of railroad police officers varies by state, in that they are commissioned by the governor of the state in which they reside and/or work in and they may carry both state level arrest powers and some interstate arrest powers as allowed by 49 USC 28101. Although railroad police primarily enforce laws on or near the railroad right-of-way, their police officers can enforce other laws and make arrests off of railroad property depending on the state in which they are working.

Depending upon the state or jurisdiction, railroad police officers may be considered certified police officers, deputized peace officers, or company special agents. In Virginia, for example, any railroad may file an application with the circuit court of any county where it operates to allow the president of the railroad to appoint members of its own police force.

Some of the crimes railroad police investigate include trespassing on the right-of-way of a railroad, assaults against passengers, terrorism threats targeting the railroad, arson, tagging of graffiti on railroad rolling stock or buildings, signal vandalism, pickpocketing, ticket fraud, robbery, and theft of personal belongings, baggage, or freight. Other incidents railroad police investigate include derailments, train/vehicle collisions, vehicle accidents on the right of way, and hazardous materials releases.

All that is true, but since no crime has been committed (it's on illegal to fly over their property), they have no jurisdiction off site.

They have zero authority to make you land. And they would actually be interfering with a lawful flight in the NAS, which is a violation of 18 USC 32.

 

[RedBaron2]

I recall that during the G20 protests in Toronto the police used a law dating back to WWI to justify violating civil liberties in certain areas. And post-911 in America photographers have gotten in trouble for taking pictures of office buildings that happen to contain an (unmarked) office of one of the many American intelligence outfits. In some places taking pictures of a farm is illegal.

So it's entirely possible that it's illegal. It's also entirely possible that it's perfectly legal, and the cop is either wrong or just throwing his weight around.

If Stopped for Photographing in Public

Taking photographs and video of things that are plainly visible in public spaces is a constitutional right—and that includes transportation facilities, the outside of federal buildings, and police and other government officials carrying out their duties.Unfortunately, law enforcement officers...

www.acludc.org

Contacting the ACLU might be a good start. So would requesting the actual statutes that prohibit flying from the railway.

I started to ask questions, but was quickly dismissed.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

All that is true, but since no crime has been committed (it's on illegal to fly over their property), they have no jurisdiction off site.

They have zero authority to make you land. And they would actually be interfering with a lawful flight in the NAS, which is a violation of 18 USC 32.

All good points but who wants to be the first to challenge that in court once your arrested. Might be a case for Ryan J. Latourette to tackle

 

[Glenh]

Yesterday, a western railroad employee ordered me to land immediately. He claimed that I violated federal law by flying over a "federal railroad". No national parks, airports, crowds or secure areas were involved. I complied immediately.
Once I landed my drone, I asked the employee for clarification. He claimed that he had full authority to shoot down the drone if I ever violated this order under his watch, and to arrest me for non-compliance. No discussion, objections or comments were permitted. Since I already had my photograph, and no supporting book of drone regulations, I left the area.
Supporting details: I flew approx. 100 feet above his railroad tracks for the purpose of photographing a well-known Amtrak station out West. No trains were in the area, nor were there any passengers in the area.
I am considering a making a complaint phone call to the railroad, but I request this community's thoughts. Thank you for your responses.

Did you ask him/ her for the valid gun licence?

 

[RedBaron2]

Railroad cops have NO authority outside of railroad property. As for the "federal" aspect of flying over the track, I'm prone to think he was full of crap and just being a bully. He obviously had no clue about FAA rules and laws. You did the right thing by not escalating it, but next time, get the person's name, badge number, and supervisor, and then contact the FAA and the Railroad main office to discuss the situation. And as someone else said, always try to record any encounter on your phone for future reference and protection. There are actually apps where the video is sent to the cloud immediately so even if someone tries to take your phone or damage it the video will be safe. But, I'll bet money that he was lying. Were you on the tracks or side road when he approached you?
BTW, you CAN fly over national parks, for the most part, you just can't take off or land in them.

I never stood on railroad property, nor did I launch/land on railroad property. Further, the rail employee was not on rail property either (as evidenced by a small yellow dot in my photo). His complaint was that he would not tolerate the violation of flying over the tracks on his "watch".

 

[Vic Moss]

All good points but who wants to be the first to challenge that in court once your arrested. Might be a case for Ryan J. Latourette to tackle

I'd challenge it in a heartbeat. And it would be better suited for DSPA than Ryan.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

I'd challenge it in a heartbeat. And it would be better suited for DSPA than Ryan.

Looking forward to reading about your Railroad adventures Vic. Let us know when and where to send the cake with a file inside to spring you from jail. LOL
I do think most people would just walk away as they don't or can't afford the time and money to fight it in court.

 

[Vic Moss]

Looking forward to reading about your Railroad adventures Vic. Let us know when and where to send the cake with a file inside to spring you from jail. LOL
I do think most people would just walk away as they don't or can't afford the time and money to fight it in court.

Yeah, no jail time for me. And they only want to intimidate people, they know there is nothing they can do. They won't try and arrest me.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

Yeah, no jail time for me. And they only want to intimidate people, they know there is nothing they can do. They won't try and arrest me.

Did you watch the video I posted from Russ at 51 drones? That was a regular cop that confronted him. Wonder what would have happened if Russ did not be as nice as he was.