Is it legal to launch a drone from a city sidewalk in LA?

[akdrone]

To be clear I'm not suggesting that this is a way to get around the "flying in a park" rules, and it is otherwise what I refer to as an "untested legal theory". There is at the moment no case law developed around this idea.

Nevertheless the basis is along the lines of an expectation of privacy inside your own property, including your vehicle, assuming the vehicle is parked legally.

I look forward to the results of your test when you try that theory out >

 

[NightFlightAlright]

I look forward to the results of your test when you try that theory out >

LOL... Well to be honest this is how I've been doing it, and I have not been bothered once... That said, I do believe in remaining on the DL, as others have mentioned...

That said, a couple days ago I took the Dash bus up to Griffith Observatory and just hung out at the café flying my drone all over the place, probably about two hours until somebody came up to me and said "hey you're not supposed to fly those drone thingies up here". To which I politely said "oh sure OK I'm sorry" and I found another location to finish up the night.

Honestly, most people just don't care provided that you're not doing anything outlandishly crazy or being an ***.

 

[akdrone]

LOL... Well to be honest this is how I've been doing it, and I have not been bothered once... That said, I do believe in remaining on the DL, as others have mentioned...

That said, a couple days ago I took the Dash bus up to Griffith Observatory and just hung out at the café flying my drone all over the place, probably about two hours until somebody came up to me and said "hey you're not supposed to fly those drone thingies up here". To which I politely said "oh sure OK I'm sorry" and I found another location to finish up the night.

Honestly, most people just don't care provided that you're not doing anything outlandishly crazy or being an ***.

I’ve never flown in a busy place like that but I think that’s a good way to handle it. I have a friend who won‘t fly if there is anyone nearby - at all- which isn’t normally an issue at all give where we tend to fly. I think I’ve only been approached twice in all my flights and both times it was positive.

 

[Aerophile]

If your car is parked legally, and you launch and land on your sunroof of your vehicle, then you are launching and landing from your personal property.

As far as being "in the air", only the FAA has jurisdiction over airspace. Learn about airspace and be aware of the airspace limitations, which are plainly delineated inside the DJI fly app.

So you bring a piece of cardboard (your own personal property) along and enter a national park. You place the cardboard on the ground, place the drone on that and you takeoff. Your drone never touched the ground - same as launching from your car's roof or hood - you think that means you can takeoff and land there legally?

How is a piece of cardboard you place on the ground in Yellowstone any different from launching from your car's roof in a locations where it's otherwise not allowed?

 

[BigAl07]

If your car is parked legally, and you launch and land on your sunroof of your vehicle, then you are launching and landing from your personal property.

So if the land owner states "No flying drones from my property" and you park your car on the landowners property and FLY YOUR DRONE FROM YOUR CAR you are violating the the rights of the LAND OWNER! Anything you do while parked on the property is controlled by the land owner/manager. That's like saying, "If I park my car in the courthouse parking lot I can do whatever I want (Drugs, illegal sex acts, crimes against nature etc) and it's OK because I own the car and I'm immune to any other rules/laws of the land. Remember you are ON their property even if you're not physically touching the land with your feet. SMH

Your "rights" in your car do not OVERRIDE the rights of the actual land/property owner. If you are ON their land- standing, sitting, parking, kneeling, laying etc you are still ON their land and their rules of Land Use are in place and not an option.

As far as being "in the air", only the FAA has jurisdiction over airspace. Learn about airspace and be aware of the airspace limitations, which are plainly delineated inside the DJI fly app.

If you're willing to put your legality fully in the hands of a Chinese company instead of the Organization who is actually charged with creating, maintaining, enforcing the rules then the inherent errors are fully on your shoulders. There have been NUMEROUS (it's mind boggling how many) first hand accounts of the DJI Fly Safe being inaccurate. Just because it "appears" to be accurate in your slice of the country isn't really enough to make such bold and dangerous statements across the board.

 

[vindibona1]

There have been NUMEROUS (it's mind boggling how many) first hand accounts of the DJI Fly Safe being inaccurate. Just because it "appears" to be accurate in your slice of the country isn't really enough to make such bold and dangerous statements across the board.

Fly Safe is a mess from any angle you look at it. Even if DJI tells you your drone is unlocked after applying for it, even in the custom unlock, it often isn't or doesn't correspond to the altitude or distance that ATC has granted. I can only imagine what RID will look like when DJI implements it fully.

Question: Are the new Mavic 3's and M3C's arriving with firmware installed with RID turned on already?

 

[NightFlightAlright]

So you bring a piece of cardboard (your own personal property) along and enter a national park. You place the cardboard on the ground, place the drone on that and you takeoff. Your drone never touched the ground - same as launching from your car's roof or hood - you think that means you can takeoff and land there legally?

How is a piece of cardboard you place on the ground in Yellowstone any different from launching from your car's roof in a locations where it's otherwise not allowed?

That is an interesting reductio ad absurdum but to be clear I was not referring to doing this within the confines of a park so much as related to other areas where things are more ambiguous.

And as I mentioned it covers an area that I would refer to as untested legal theory.

That said, launching from a parked vehicle is distinctly different from launching from a piece of cardboard on the ground. A vehicle has an expectation of privacy within it, that's certainly not true of a piece of cardboard.

 

[BobaFut]

That is an interesting reductio ad absurdum but to be clear I was not referring to doing this within the confines of a park so much as related to other areas where things are more ambiguous.

And as I mentioned it covers an area that I would refer to as untested legal theory.

That said, launching from a parked vehicle is distinctly different from launching from a piece of cardboard on the ground. A vehicle has an expectation of privacy within it, that's certainly not true of a piece of cardboard.

LMAO. This is some Barry Zuckerkorn-level legal analysis.

 

[akdrone]

This is similar to the problem I face when I travel down a highway that has a state park on both sides of the road that forbid drone flights. It is legal to launch from the highway as it is not part of the park. I can then fly over the park; the park is not restricted by the FAA. I have checked with the park personnel and they agreed that I could not enter the park itself and launch but I could fly over that little area adjacent to the highway if I launched from there. National Parks, however have restrictions on them as evidenced by the B4UFLY app. My take on the "fly from the car" is that if I were to drive into the state park and fly I would be ticketed or arrested or whatever they do and have to make the argument in court that you propose. I'm confident that no law officer or park official would buy the "launch from my property argument". As for personal property, the land owner can simply say "leave my property" and that's the end of that. It's a creative legal conjecture. .

 

[NightFlightAlright]

So if the land owner states "No flying drones from my property" and you park your car on the landowners property and FLY YOUR DRONE FROM YOUR CAR you are violating the the rights of the LAND OWNER! Anything you do while parked on the property is controlled by the land owner/manager. That's like saying, "If I park my car in the courthouse parking lot I can do whatever I want (Drugs, illegal sex acts, crimes against nature etc) and it's OK because I own the car and I'm immune to any other rules/laws of the land. Remember you are ON their property even if you're not physically touching the land with your feet. SMH

No.

Actually I didn't say that they did override anything, other than inside a vehicle that is legally parked, there is an expectation of privacy regardless of where parked.

If you're parked on somebody else's property then either it is with their permission which makes it legally parked there, or you are illegally parked if it was without their permission.

Your "rights" in your car do not OVERRIDE the rights of the actual land/property owner. If you are ON their land- standing, sitting, parking, kneeling, laying etc you are still ON their land and their rules of Land Use are in place and not an option.

Your rights within your own property where you have an expectation of privacy are separated.

Here's an example, you have a van into which you cannot see from the outside. Your van is parked legally. Inside said van do whatever you wanna do that you could I would do at home, as in this common example you have an absolute expectation of privacy within that van. This should be obvious.

This expectation of privacy however does continue into other vehicles as well particularly with the windows closed, and so forth.

If you're willing to put your legality fully in the hands of a Chinese company instead of the Organization who is actually charged with creating, maintaining, enforcing the rules then the inherent errors are fully on your shoulders. There have been NUMEROUS (it's mind boggling how many) first hand accounts of the DJI Fly Safe being inaccurate. Just because it "appears" to be accurate in your slice of the country isn't really enough to make such bold and dangerous statements across the board.

Whatever. What are you putting your trust in? Some other app by some other developer? B4Ufly app as an example is missing all of the restricted areas over jails/prisons in the Southern California area which are shown on the DJI fly app. This despite the fact the B4Ufly app is made under contract for the FAA by KittyHawk.

And as you are probably aware, those restricted "prison" airspaces are actually not restricted by FAA rules but locally, and based on the recent court case where the drone pilot was found innocent, probably cannot actually be prosecuted by the local governments. Nevertheless, the DJI app does indicate those restricted areas if you don't want to incur any imperial entanglements.

Wanna be safe, do what I do, get a copy of the sectional for the region that you're flying in. As a part 61 pilot, we can't take off in our aircraft unless we have the current sectional in our possession. While holding a sectional is not required for recreational flyers, it's the easy way to see and understand the FAA defined airspace in the area.

 

[NightFlightAlright]

..... I'm confident that no law officer or park official would buy the "launch from my property argument". As for personal property, the land owner can simply say "leave my property" and that's the end of that. It's a creative legal conjecture. .

I want to be super clear if I wasn't earlier that nothing I'm saying can be construed as legal advice in any way and is only an open discussion of legal conjecture and untested legal theories as it pertains to the launching from a vehicle supposition.

Your mileage may vary, void where prohibited, caveat emptor, and mind the gap.

 

[AMann]

Flying for 3 years now. Learned to fly in "stealth mode" after numerous encounters with law, What this entails, I will not describe in detail in this forum, but it works. I've never been detected and never post video or photos of the flights. It's possible to fly where you want, but keep your drone out of site and out of sound distance to ground level. Never fly near restricted airports . Stay away from manned aircraft, they may not just be flying by, they may be looking for your drone. Stay away from people on the ground. They often call police. Use common sense. Stay hidden.

You wear a ghillie suit also?!


Well, actually as long as you’re not flying illegally, I guess it’s OK. RID will snoop idiots out if they are doing anything bad. By staying hidden, at least you’re not going get complaints like some Yahoo’s do and end up ruining the hobby.
As you were…

 

[hiflyer201]

I’m not interested in filming clandestine subjects that can’t be shown in public and if I’m not using the camera I have zero interest in drones