Law enforcement question?

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

Now this doesn't exactly cover the situation you describe, since it refers to an in-flight emergency, but to my mind the spirit of the regs is that if you, as the pilot-in-command using your best judgment, decide that the rules need to be broken in order to perhaps save a life, you go for it and plead forgiveness later.

14 CFR § 91.3 - Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command
§ 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.
(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency.
(c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph (b) of this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a written report of that deviation to the Administrator.

The intent of an emergency with regards to UAV's is as mentioned above in 91.3. "IN-FLIGHT EMERGENCY". i.e.: the example where the UAV would climb above 400' to avoid a manned aircraft, etc. The UAV is in the air and violates existing rules to avoid an emergency.

The officer asking someone to take flight due to a ground/water emergency does not fall under this rule. If the UAV is on the ground, and takes off, they are not avoiding an air emergency under 91.3, they are placing themselves in violation of FAA rules by launching into controlled airspace without having authorization first. Once it becomes a SAR operation it is no longer a hobby flight and authorization is required.

I am not saying to fly or not fly to search for the victim, only clarifying the above.

If you decide to fly and assist the officer, as mentioned already, make sure you have the officer initiate communications with the tower, and the local command to prevent interference with any manned SAR aircraft.

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

This is not yet regulatory law - it's just an instruction to the FAA, and you are making an assumption that the OP's scenario would fall under it. Even if it did, until the FAA has figured out and codified what those SGI process improvements might be, it has no regulatory impact.

All the agencies mentioned still require procedures, COA's, Authorizations, etc to enable them to operate within their jurisdictions and comply with FAA rules. They cannot just go out because they are LE, FD, SAR, etc, and fly because of who they are. Air Space is still controlled.

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

The FAA has does not employ enough people to check who ran a drone up and down a river for a half hour on a given day. They are not like fish and game wardens who check licenses at boat put-in points. But even if one did happen to come along while you were involved in saving a life, do you think that such a person would want to bring shame on his employer by citing a rescuer? Not if he likes his job he won't! The whole anxiety about the FAA as patrolling drone police seems to me to be misplaced.
I would be very open to hearing other points of view with other information.

Proof in Point: Casey Neistat

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

You can deviate from the FAA rules in the event of an emergency. You only have to tell the FAA about it, if they request that you do. But you need to be able to prove it was an emergency.

That rule applies to IN-Flight Emergencies.

 

[sar104]

All the agencies mentioned still require procedures, COA's, Authorizations, etc to enable them to operate within their jurisdictions and comply with FAA rules. They cannot just go out because they are LE, FD, SAR, etc, and fly because of who they are. Air Space is still controlled.

Agreed, but I'm not clear what that has to do with the post that you quoted.

 

[bentbrent]

I remember a local story where a man waded out into the ocean in an effort to drown himself. The man was in waist deep water. The fire department showed up and sat on the shore, watching the man eventually go unconscious.

They said it wasn’t their jurisdiction and they weren’t allowed to get in the water. A furious bystander eventually entered the water herself and drug the man’s unconscious body back to shore. The man ultimately drown.

Story here:
Alameda police, firefighters watch as man drowns, blame budget cuts for being unable to respond | ABC7 San Francisco Archive | abc7news.com

That was indeed a very sad situation, but there are certain things to consider. If a firefighter had made the rescue:
1. Their insurance would not cover them if they were injured or killed in the rescue.
2. They could very likely lose their job for disobeying the order to stand down.

So considering those things, would you risk your life AND career trying to rescue someone who doesn't want it, may fight you if you try and possibly would finish the job that you interrupted while you stand in the unemployment line. For me, that wouldn't be a hard decision. As to the question of flying my drone, I'd do that, and risk the wrath of the FAA in a heartbeat, under those conditions.

I once heard a story where the firefighters sat and watched a house burn, because it was on the other side of some boundary, and they weren't allowed to help. Sometimes the legal requirements are more of a problem than anything else.

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

Agreed, but I'm not clear what that has to do with the post that you quoted.

The initial post was regarding whether or not to comply with LE when directed to assist by flying in controlled airspace. The conversation brought moral and legal answers. While I agree with others, the possibility of saving a life would morally justify flying the emergency (which I would do) and deal with the legal issues later. The legal part of the conversation brought some accurate, and inaccurate answers. I just wanted to clarify some of those rules. The statement regarding various agencies was to clarify that just because there may be an official LE, FD, etc giving directions, that does not mean they have the proper knowleged or authorizations. Many do, many do not. Those that do not could be giving directions to someone while not aware of other hazards, airspace restrictions, manned aircraft, etc. As well as a new hobby pilot who is unaware of AMA or 107 rules, and FAA restrictions. The initial question brought a great conversation to the group and makes people think about what they would do in an emergency. I was just trying to add some clarification to the legal side of the answers.

 

[charchar11]

hmm kinda a grey area

 

[CanyonRunVideos]

Hypothetically, boating accident happens and somebody falls in the water cop comes up to me and ask if I can fly my drone up and down the river to see if anybody is bobbing in the water or on the shoreline. I am in D airspace. can I lawfully do that for that police officer? I am a Part 107 pilot so I should know this. my first impression is no because the FAA regulates the air not the police officer but it's an emergency how far can that go?

A Local Enforcement Officer does NOT have the authority or the jurisdiction to ask any drone pilot to violate any current FAA regulation. Under the Supremacy Clause; Federal regulations supercede any and all state law or regulations.

 

[CanyonRunVideos]

The initial post was regarding whether or not to comply with LE when directed to assist by flying in controlled airspace. The conversation brought moral and legal answers. While I agree with others, the possibility of saving a life would morally justify flying the emergency (which I would do) and deal with the legal issues later. The legal part of the conversation brought some accurate, and inaccurate answers. I just wanted to clarify some of those rules. The statement regarding various agencies was to clarify that just because there may be an official LE, FD, etc giving directions, that does not mean they have the proper knowleged or authorizations. Many do, many do not. Those that do not could be giving directions to someone while not aware of other hazards, airspace restrictions, manned aircraft, etc. As well as a new hobby pilot who is unaware of AMA or 107 rules, and FAA restrictions. The initial question brought a great conversation to the group and makes people think about what they would do in an emergency. I was just trying to add some clarification to the legal side of the answers.

If a LEO asked a drone pilot to fly your UAS in restricted airspace, YOU; the drone pilot has violated a federal regulation not the LEO. Say if you happened to crash your drone during this heroic emergency flight and your drone crashed into the river. Do you think for one second that the LEO’s department is going to be responsable for replacing the lost drone? Dream on!!!!

 

[NetDep]

If a LEO asked a drone pilot to fly your UAS in restricted airspace, YOU; the drone pilot has violated a federal regulation not the LEO. Say if you happened to crash your drone during this heroic emergency flight and your drone crashed into the river. Do you think for one second that the LEO’s department is going to be responsable for replacing the lost drone? Dream on!!!!

Actually, in the above scenario I think it is likely the Officer's Agency would reimburse for the loss of property. I also think that if I thought I was going to let my concern over my property above the potential of saving a life, I'd be pretty disappointed in myself. Same for concern about the FAA.

Let your conscious be your guide but it's an excellent scenario/moral dilemma.

Fly safe!!

 

[Montana John]

If a LEO asked a drone pilot to fly your UAS in restricted airspace, YOU; the drone pilot has violated a federal regulation not the LEO. Say if you happened to crash your drone during this heroic emergency flight and your drone crashed into the river. Do you think for one second that the LEO’s department is going to be responsable for replacing the lost drone? Dream on!!!!

Dunking my drone in the process of attempting to save a life. Gee, can I have some time to weigh the values here?
I don't want to be in the room with people who have a hard time making such a decision, much less a person who would opt out of a rescue operation because they may well not get reimbursed for loss of equipment.

 

[BigAl07]

Dunking my drone in the process of attempting to save a life. Gee, can I have some time to weigh the values here?
I don't want to be in the room with people who have a hard time making such a decision, much less a person who would opt out of a rescue operation because they may well not get reimbursed for loss of equipment.

He didn't say what you're insinuating. He was merely pointing out the fact that you might be risking your own equipment etc without a guarantee of replacement should an incident happened. If someone is going to go into a risky endeavor they should at least know all the pertinent details beforehand. Don't be too quick to judge and cast those stones my friend.

 

[Montana John]

He didn't say what you're insinuating. He was merely pointing out the fact that you might be risking your own equipment etc without a guarantee of replacement should an incident happened. If someone is going to go into a risky endeavor they should at least know all the pertinent details beforehand. Don't be too quick to judge and cast those stones my friend.

This involves more than merely pointing out a factor. A man who is asked to participate in saving a life doesn't waste time considering reimbursement. A man's response is, "Yes. What do you need me to do?" This FAA anxiety and financial dithering stirs my negatives.

 

[BigAl07]

This involves more than merely pointing out a factor. A man who is asked to participate in saving a life doesn't waste time considering reimbursement. A man's response is, "Yes. What do you need me to do?" This FAA anxiety and financial dithering stirs my negatives.

We will just have to agree to disagree then.

 

[Milo187]

Exactly correct! I called my local FSDO about an enforcement question and they had limited ability to investigate minor infractions