M2P optics concern. No ND's yet. Aperture at 11. Fogged section of image?

[chuck1026]

It was very sunny at noon so I took my first test flight with my M2P. No ND filters (on order). Settings at HQ, H.265, Dlog and aperture at 11. The results are here https://photos.app.goo.gl/zRkfM936ikZdvTmF7 .

I do notice if I back off the aperture it calms down but is that the root cause or do I need to send this in? I removed the top lens but the issue persists. I don't see any fingerprint, etc.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I've owned 5 drones now and this is the first with aperture and this issue...

 

[fstop.labs]

It looks a little like lens flare? Is the sun shining into the lens?

 

[Turn11]

For comparison this is a picture off my M2P on it's first flight. No filters, Automatic, taken about 7:30 am (about one hour after sunrise here in Arizona. That is a soccer field that looks so rough, in reality it is as perfectly smooth as a rolled grass turf can be.

 

[chuck1026]

It looks a little like lens flare? Is the sun shining into the lens?

It was noon so the sun was at it's near peak for this time of year. I didn't think it was a flare.

 

[chuck1026]

For comparison this is a picture off my M2P on it's first flight. No filters, Automatic, taken about 7:30 am (about one hour after sunrise here in Arizona. That is a soccer field that looks so rough, in reality it is as perfectly smooth as a rolled grass turf can be.

View attachment 46525

I wasn't in automatic but I switched and it helped. I think the aperture may be the root cause. It was at 11.

 

[supergimp]

It was very sunny at noon so I took my first test flight with my M2P. No ND filters (on order). Settings at HQ, H.265, Dlog and aperture at 11. The results are here https://photos.app.goo.gl/zRkfM936ikZdvTmF7 .

I do notice if I back off the aperture it calms down but is that the root cause or do I need to send this in? I removed the top lens but the issue persists. I don't see any fingerprint, etc.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I've owned 5 drones now and this is the first with aperture and this issue...

Do you have any other frames taken at different angles? Does it stay in the same location as you pan left/right? Like it's attached to the camera or does it move as if it's glare from a reflection somewhere? Glare (lens flare) can happen any time of day and not all lens flare is the artistic J.J. Abrams flare we often want. Generically, lens flare is often manifested as haze.

If you rotate the aircraft and the haze seems stuck to the lens, then you either have something on your lens or an issue with your camera. If it changes you are seeing some sort of interaction from something external onto the camera.

I know you don't have ND filters yet (I'm waiting too on shipping) but you may want to remove the stock front filter (with Hasselblad printing on it) and do a test to see if you still see the issue. You can try it hand held just to see if its there if you don't want to fly without the protection of the front filter element.

 

[chuck1026]

Do you have any other frames taken at different angles? Does it stay in the same location as you pan left/right? Like it's attached to the camera or does it move as if it's glare from a reflection somewhere? Glare (lens flare) can happen any time of day and not all lens flare is the artistic J.J. Abrams flare we often want. Generically, lens flare is often manifested as haze.

If you rotate the aircraft and the haze seems stuck to the lens, then you either have something on your lens or an issue with your camera. If it changes you are seeing some sort of interaction from something external onto the camera.

I know you don't have ND filters yet (I'm waiting too on shipping) but you may want to remove the stock front filter (with Hasselblad printing on it) and do a test to see if you still see the issue. You can try it hand held just to see if its there if you don't want to fly without the protection of the front filter element.

Agree with your diagnostics. It does change with position and only seems noticeable if set at 11. I removed the stock front filter but it appeared ok and I didn't observe a change - but more testing is needed to rule out the optics. The cloudy section never changes position but severity is affected by camera angle. Does that make sense?

 

[supergimp]

Agree with your diagnostics. It does change with position and only seems noticeable if set at 11. I removed the stock front filter but it appeared ok and I didn't observe a change - but more testing is needed to rule out the optics. The cloudy section never changes position but severity is affected by camera angle. Does that make sense?

Sorry, not really sure what you are saying. Maybe I just misunderstand:

It does change with position...

and then:

The cloudy section never changes position but severity is affected by camera angle.

Are you saying it changes intensity but not position as you move the aircraft (especially pan so you change the incident angle of the light)?

and

I removed the stock front filter but it appeared ok and I didn't observe a change

By "appeared ok" do you mean the fog disappeared? But then you didn't observe a change from the foggy image?

Sorry, from my interpretation that removing the filter fixed the issue tells me that your filter is either damaged or dirty. But I'm not sure if that's what you are saying.

Another thing comes to mind. A friend of mine just returned from Ireland where he took his Mavic Pro. He wa looking forward to flying at the Cliffs of Mohor. While most places were clearly marked as anti-drone, he did find an out of the way location to give it a go. Unfortunately all of his footage suffered from extreme fogging of his lens. This happens when changing temperature/humidity causes condensation on (or inside) the lens.

Total long shot, but you may have condensation somewhere. You wouldn't happen, by chance to be in hurricane territory and went outside from AC or something? Just a guess.

 

[chuck1026]

Sorry, not really sure what you are saying. Maybe I just misunderstand:


and then:

Are you saying it changes intensity but not position as you move the aircraft (especially pan so you change the incident angle of the light)?

and


By "appeared ok" do you mean the fog disappeared? But then you didn't observe a change from the foggy image?

Sorry, from my interpretation that removing the filter fixed the issue tells me that your filter is either damaged or dirty. But I'm not sure if that's what you are saying.

Another thing comes to mind. A friend of mine just returned from Ireland where he took his Mavic Pro. He wa looking forward to flying at the Cliffs of Mohor. While most places were clearly marked as anti-drone, he did find an out of the way location to give it a go. Unfortunately all of his footage suffered from extreme fogging of his lens. This happens when changing temperature/humidity causes condensation on (or inside) the lens.

Total long shot, but you may have condensation somewhere. You wouldn't happen, by chance to be in hurricane territory and went outside from AC or something? Just a guess.

I really appreciate your thoughts! I can't believe I'm the only one seeing this issue.

Running a high f-stop (11) I observed the foggy area as posted even as I changed the aircraft's position, but it was noon or so.

The foggy area never changed position in the frame, but it did appear and disappear as the aircraft changed position.

If I reduced the f-stop the issue seemed to go away (5pm re-test).

I was considering temperature and humidity as a potential factor but I was outside for 40 mins and the issue was present the entire time as far as I could tell.

 

[Roamer105]

Come-on just shorten your shutter speed and keep the aperture within good range. There is absolutely nothing wrong taking video with a fast shutter especially if (as it seems many of you do) care about image clarity.

With my Mavic Pro I used an ND8 (nearly permanently attached) and worked the shutter from there. With the Mavic 2 Pro I will probably never use an ND filter.

 

[chuck1026]

Come-on just shorten your shutter speed and keep the aperture within good range. There is absolutely nothing wrong taking video with a fast shutter especially if (as it seems many of you do) care about image clarity.

I think you're right.... Here's a video going from 11 down.... https://photos.app.goo.gl/m6nBGnbbqfWxFxUy5

 

[gnirtS]

You absolutely do not want to have to use f/11 on the drone. Diffraction cuts in from about f/8 and degrades the image, f/11 is unusable.

The "180 rule" is badly misunderstood. Unless your scene has fast motion between each from you really dont need that shutter to be twice the frame rate.
If the scene is gentle panning, higher altitude shots and so on then a high shutter makes no difference at all.
In other words,use a much wider aperture. f/4 or f/5.6 or so and you'll get far far better images.

 

[chuck1026]

You absolutely do not want to have to use f/11 on the drone. Diffraction cuts in from about f/8 and degrades the image, f/11 is unusable.

The "180 rule" is badly misunderstood. Unless your scene has fast motion between each from you really dont need that shutter to be twice the frame rate.
If the scene is gentle panning, higher altitude shots and so on then a high shutter makes no difference at all.
In other words,use a much wider aperture. f/4 or f/5.6 or so and you'll get far far better images.

Have you seen this before? Sounds like you have. I have been thinking this is the root cause from the beginning. I know only the basics of f-stop but my engineering mind feels extremes are typically best avoided with any settings. Everything in moderation LOL.

 

[gnirtS]

Diffraction is just the natural outcome of physics.
We're dealing with a small sensor here - its a compact camera type sensor where diffraction effects will start to show at roughly f/8 depending how exactly you define them.

Diffraction Limited Photography: Pixel Size, Aperture and Airy Disks

See there if you want more detail.

Aperture sharpness results for diffraction effects at various apertures on the M2P.

Ultimately, use a higher shutter. It wont hurt, unless the scene is lots of motion (very low, very fast) it won't even be seen.

 

[chuck1026]

Diffraction is just the natural outcome of physics.
We're dealing with a small sensor here - its a compact camera type sensor where diffraction effects will start to show at roughly f/8 depending how exactly you define them.

Diffraction Limited Photography: Pixel Size, Aperture and Airy Disks

See there if you want more detail.

Aperture sharpness results for diffraction effects at various apertures on the M2P.

Ultimately, use a higher shutter. It wont hurt, unless the scene is lots of motion (very low, very fast) it won't even be seen.

A problem that isn't really a problem but a result of physics is ok with me. Thanks for taking the time to share the links and detail. My first thought was I hope it's just the nature of the beast and not a defect if the camera.... I can live with it.