MASTER AIRSCREW messing up.

[psloan]

I got mine today. On just a test take off, I do get a bit of a hop when the blades spin up. After that it looks quite stable. I've compared the blades to the stock ones under magnification app on my phone. Don't see much difference on the flash on the leading or trailing edge. I did a quick balance test using a paperclip through the center and they seem balanced. Not sure that is a great test considering the rpms on these things.

I took them up for test flights and the do seem quieter. A bit faster too.

I think I will be keeping mine. Might take a bit of sand paper to smooth out the leading edge.

--pat

 

[Dougcjohn]

So... is it then safe to re-order these?

I'd see no reason why not, they're just sending emails out now indicating they're correcting the problem and replacing previous orders.

Previous orders will probably receive priority, but new orders should follow shortly.

 

[Dougcjohn]

I got mine today. On just a test take off, I do get a bit of a hop when the blades spin up. After that it looks quite stable. I've compared the blades to the stock ones under magnification app on my phone. Don't see much difference on the flash on the leading or trailing edge. I did a quick balance test using a paperclip through the center and they seem balanced. Not sure that is a great test considering the rpms on these things.

I took them up for test flights and the do seem quieter. A bit faster too.

I think I will be keeping mine. Might take a bit of sand paper to smooth out the leading edge.

--patView attachment 122129

Those zoomed in look great, what was normally expected. Spin up often has a mild shake as blades find correct balance and axis.

Thanks for share!

 

[jigsaw]

Slightly off topic, but did anyone actually get a set of red blades? They were marked "sold out" from the beginning, yet I haven't seen anyone posting about them. Who got them?

 

[chanson]

I received my blue set with similar flashing problems that you all have described. I haven't tried them on the MA2 yet, but will likely at least check the balance today or this weekend. That said, based on everyone's comments, I'm not super excited to even ask for replacements at this point. I'm leaning toward simply not using this set (thankfully, they weren't crazy expensive) and sitting back for several months to see if this problem gets fully resolved. Based on the reputation of the company, I expect that finally there will be a reliable supply of their props for our drones, but for now it seems like a lot of trouble for a small gain. I'll stick with stock props for a while.

thanks!
Chris

 

[Dougcjohn]

Based on photo provided by @psloan , the problem with dies & manufacturering have been resolved. The edges are nicely formed, rounded and appear up to MAS normal quality. Absolutely zero mold swag or flashing on edges.

Compared to the ones I received 3 weeks ago, not only are the edges correct, even the blade surface looks better... smoother finish.

Not sure where they are on distribution, or if that takes place at a different location than production. There may be a overlap of pulling bad inventory, mail in process, and stocking good inventory.

I'd say problem corrected going forward.

If you have a bad set, send an email... they'll respond to replace and not require any return.

 

[chanson]

I received my blue set with similar flashing problems that you all have described. I haven't tried them on the MA2 yet, but will likely at least check the balance today or this weekend. That said, based on everyone's comments, I'm not super excited to even ask for replacements at this point. I'm leaning toward simply not using this set (thankfully, they weren't crazy expensive) and sitting back for several months to see if this problem gets fully resolved. Based on the reputation of the company, I expect that finally there will be a reliable supply of their props for our drones, but for now it seems like a lot of trouble for a small gain. I'll stick with stock props for a while.

thanks!
Chris

Ok, I'm backing up a bit... quite a bit... I think I was too worried about everyone's difficulties. I took my blue set out today and first tried them spinning before takeoff. No wobble, no problem at all. After a bit of that and the confidence that it gave, I took the MA2 up and it was solid and flying great. Regarding the sound, I know there has been lots of debate about pitch and dB. In the end, these props create a much less noticeable sound. They are less noted by myself as the pilot and by others who may be walking in the park nearby.

I did have a bit of extra material around the sharp edges of the blades when they came, but cleaning this off was easy and none of that seems to affect how they perform. So, verdict is - my blue set is great.

thanks!
Chris

 

[PacificSkyDreamn]

Well based on the post of the last 48 hours that the production/quality control issues appear to have been addressed, I have ordered a set of orange props. I definitely plan on doing the solid smooth ground vibration and movement test, as shown in several videos, when they arrive. We shall see...

 

[Phantomrain.org]

So TWO things have come to light, that these props have more lift and there fore they are shaking the drone when placed on a wooden table , the drone moves in a circle motion.

Now this reminds me of the those muscle cars that just have two much power and shake and were not really bothered by this because the flight and the Video was just fine and lower pitch is welcomed.

I suspect that the only reason why the Mavic 2 is not showing the Same signs is that the drone is so Heavy it cannot move when placed on a table.

So this is not really a design flaw as its a weight issue of the drone.

The props we received were clean edges and quality paint.

If you spin the Props with just your finger you can hear a whistle like sound something I can hear when the wind is blowing the Props with the Motors not running.

Some people will be really alarmed by this behavior and others will simply avoid taking off from a slipper surface .
I do not think that this is something that is going to be fixed but tolerated.

So consider when ordering these Props, no one is going to be able to watch your video and say you were using Master Props , its just the extra power and lift of the Props which offer better performance in the sky and longer flights according to Master Screw and a better sounding drone with a little shake rattle and roll before take off on some slippery surfaces.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mavic in the Rain /Snow and land on Water.

 

[SkyeHigh]

So TWO things have come to light, that these props have more lift and there fore they are shaking the drone when placed on a wooden table , the drone moves in a circle motion.

Now this reminds me of the those muscle cars that just have two much power and shake and were not really bothered by this because the flight and the Video was just fine and lower pitch is welcomed.

I suspect that the only reason why the Mavic 2 is not showing the Same signs is that the drone is so Heavy it cannot move when placed on a table.

So this is not really a design flaw as its a weight issue of the drone.

The props we received were clean edges and quality paint.

If you spin the Props with just your finger you can hear a whistle like sound something I can hear when the wind is blowing the Props with the Motors not running.

Some people will be really alarmed by this behavior and others will simply avoid taking off from a slipper surface .
I do not think that this is something that is going to be fixed but tolerated.

So consider when ordering these Props, no one is going to be able to watch your video and say you were using Master Props , its just the extra power and lift of the Props which offer better performance in the sky and longer flights according to Master Screw and a better sounding drone with a little shake rattle and roll before take off on some slippery surfaces.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mavic in the Rain /Snow and land on Water.

No propeller is going to give you more power. The power is coming from the motors and the propellor is just turning that rotational torque into a vertical motive force. All it can do is be more (or less) efficient in that process either by airflow design/reduced friction or weight.

If the aircraft is hovering, for example, and IF the propellers are more efficient, the motors will be turning slightly slower compared to the same motors with stock propellers to maintain the same performance.

Lower motor speed will result in a slightly lower audible pitch but the volume of air passing through the blades will be the same so no change in perceived loudness.

What can affect the sound level is the slanted blade tips on the stock propellers, which helps to minimise vortexes disturbing the air and also reducing drag. Same for the winglets on modern aircraft and high performance and military helicopters.

 

[MathAddict]

Surly they're not going to expect everyone to send this stuff back. My whole
experience with MAS has been rubbish. The way a GOOD company deals with
a problem is with good customer service and an apology, i've had neither.
It took them 9 days to answer an earlier email regarding shipping, i emailed
them nearly 5 days ago regarding the quality issue after they finally arrived
and still NO response or acknowledgement of the issue. We have a very old
saying here in the UK ........YOUR ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR LAST JOB.
[emoji107][emoji107]

I emailed Master Airscrew on January 13 at 11:46 AM. Sebastian replied the next day at 1:10 PM, acknowledged the problem, apologized for it, and asked if I wanted a refund or a replacement. I asked to have them replaced.

I’m satisfied with the company. Stuff happens and they’re fixing it.

Jim

 

[Dougcjohn]

I emailed Master Airscrew on January 13 at 11:46 AM. Sebastian replied the next day at 1:10 PM, acknowledged the problem, apologized for it, and asked if I wanted a refund or a replacement. I asked to have them replaced.

I’m satisfied with the company. Stuff happens and they’re fixing it.

Jim

Basically same... they took a few weeks for reply, although I sent at the initial period problem was discovered & Holiday period.

They expressed apologies and I elected to have them replaced. No request to return defective props.

Used MAS for multiple platforms, always top quality... surprised of this "opps", as I think even MAS was surprised. They've reacted & resolved quite promptly for a small manufacturing company.

I doubt this will damage their reputation, on the contrary, they'll most likely be seen as quickly correcting. Reality is manufacturing does have it's mistakes, it's the attention to correct and work to prevent repeating.

 

[Category 5]

No propeller is going to give you more power. The power is coming from the motors and the propellor is just turning that rotational torque into a vertical motive force. All it can do is be more (or less) efficient in that process either by airflow design/reduced friction or weight.

If the aircraft is hovering, for example, and IF the propellers are more efficient, the motors will be turning slightly slower compared to the same motors with stock propellers to maintain the same performance.

Lower motor speed will result in a slightly lower audible pitch but the volume of air passing through the blades will be the same so no change in perceived loudness.

What can affect the sound level is the slanted blade tips on the stock propellers, which helps to minimise vortexes disturbing the air and also reducing drag. Same for the winglets on modern aircraft and high performance and military helicopters.

Well a prop can certainly give you more usable power. Compare the stock props to two theoretical ones with 0 pitch. The 0 pitch props will just spin without converting to lift. Props can be made to require faster rotation and less torque or vice-versa. They can be designed to create different turbulence profiles and therefore different audible pitch and overall audible noise. True the motors are a limiting factor but there are many variables that can be manipulated within that spec.

The MA props definitely have less audible noise, and less objectionable frequency, making them seem noticeably quieter.

 

[SkyeHigh]

Well a prop can certainly give you more usable power. Compare the stock props to two theoretical ones with 0 pitch. The 0 pitch props will just spin without converting to lift. Props can be made to require faster rotation and less torque or vice-versa. They can be designed to create different turbulence profiles and therefore different audible pitch and overall audible noise. True the motors are a limiting factor but there are many variables that can be manipulated within that spec.

The MA props definitely have less audible noise, and less objectionable frequency, making them seem noticeably quieter.

It cannot give you more useable power. All it can achieve is greater (or less) efficiency in converting the rotational motive force of the motor.

Efficiency comes from lower friction as the blades pass through the air and how cleanly the air can flow outward along the leading tip of the blade to the static air surrounding it and producing the minimum vortex possible.

Compare the stock props to two theoretical ones with 0 pitch. The 0 pitch props will just spin without converting to lift.

No idea what you’re trying to say here.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

It cannot give you more useable power. All it can achieve is greater (or less) efficiency in converting the rotational motive force of the motor.

Efficiency comes from lower friction as the blades pass through the air and how cleanly the air can flow outward along the leading tip of the blade to the static air surrounding it and producing the minimum vortex possible.



No idea what you’re trying to say here.

Its my fault : I mentioned this because of the advertisement and these claims. I thought I read somewhere they offered more power as the props are longer and it would make sense to me therefore more boost , but I am no expert in the Prop Propulsion business but I do believe that Master Air Screw is..

I should mention that I did make a video of how well the Mavic 2 Performed with the Master Screw Props and I expect the same if not better on the AIR 2.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mavic in the Pouring Rain and Land on Water.

 

[SkyeHigh]

Its my fault : I mentioned this because of the advertisement and these claims. I thought I read somewhere they offered more power as the props are longer and it would make sense to me therefore more boost , but I am no expert in the Prop Propulsion business but I do believe that Master Air Screw is..

I should mention that I did make a video of how well the Mavic 2 Performed with the Master Screw Props and I expect the same if not better on the AIR 2.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mavic in the Pouring Rain and Land on Water.

View attachment 122313

As you say, ‘advertising claims’. The figures they quote are barely improvements. They use the word ‘upto’ rather than any real figure, which is just marketing speak.

I’m not saying they’re no good but ‘claims’ that are not substantiated, marketing junk terms and dropping in the occasional ‘dB’ reference that the majority of people won’t be fully aware of would never attract me to buy a product from them.

Each to their own of course and I’m sure many people are happy with them. But as the song goes, and applicable to most marketing material... ‘Don’t believe the hype’.

 

[JDMAC65]

So as stated earlier, I received my prepaid return label from MAS. Boxed the items up and shipped them out yesterday. Went to check today to make sure the tracking number went live and the USPS site is telling me that the package associated with that number was delivered on the 19th of October to Prescott, Arizona. Double checked my data entry and the same result every time. Both to/from addresses are correct on the label so hopefully they get back to MAS and I get my refund.

Follow up...sent an email last Saturday to inform MAS that the return label they provided was associated with a delivery made on Oct 19 and requested a response as to why. Nothing. Even if they took Monday off for the holiday that's still 4 business days to respond, not even a "we are researching the issue". Completely unacceptable.

 

[Category 5]

It cannot give you more useable power. All it can achieve is greater (or less) efficiency in converting the rotational motive force of the motor.

Efficiency comes from lower friction as the blades pass through the air and how cleanly the air can flow outward along the leading tip of the blade to the static air surrounding it and producing the minimum vortex possible.



No idea what you’re trying to say here.

Trying to say that different props can provide different amounts of thrust. Some may be optimized for lower RPM operation, which requires greater torque. Some may be optimized for higher RPM operation, which obviously requires a motor with higher operational RPM. Two props can provide the same amount of thrust at completely different RPMs. They require different motors or different amounts of energy to do it. I was saying that an inefficient, or poorly matched prop will waste that energy (just like a prop with 0 pitch will provide 0 thrust regardless of how fast it turns). It's entirely possible (most probable) that DJI left headroom on the table when matching the stock props to the stock motors, and MA unlocked it by further optimizing. Different props provide more usable thrust at a given energy cost (thus the claim, increased power reserve).

When converting energy (in this case rotational energy into thrust) there is always loss, and almost always a way to get at least some of that back through optimization.

That's what I was trying to say.

 

[SkyeHigh]

Trying to say that different props can provide different amounts of thrust. Some may be optimized for lower RPM operation, which requires greater torque. Some may be optimized for higher RPM operation, which obviously requires a motor with higher operational RPM. Two props can provide the same amount of thrust at completely different RPMs. They require different motors or different amounts of energy to do it. I was saying that an inefficient, or poorly matched prop will waste that energy (just like a prop with 0 pitch will provide 0 thrust regardless of how fast it turns). It's entirely possible (most probable) that DJI left headroom on the table when matching the stock props to the stock motors, and MA unlocked it by further optimizing. Different props provide more usable thrust at a given energy cost (thus the claim, increased power reserve).

When converting energy (in this case rotational energy into thrust) there is always loss, and almost always a way to get at least some of that back through optimization.

That's what I was trying to say.

That makes more sense, thanks.

DJI certainly do know what they are doing regarding props and they are made uniquely for each model as a compromise between efficiency, optimum motor RPM and power drain.

Electric motors are designed to run at 50-100% rated load. They are most efficient around 75% rated load. Below 50% efficiency drops significantly. DJI will almost certainly have designed around the 75% figure.

Friction/drag/weight are among the few areas where efficiency can be improved and still remain within the operational boundaries of the motor and I believe that is where MA are making small gains.

 

[Category 5]

That makes more sense, thanks.

DJI certainly do know what they are doing regarding props and they are made uniquely for each model as a compromise between efficiency, optimum motor RPM and power drain.

Electric motors are designed to run at 50-100% rated load. They are most efficient around 75% rated load. Below 50% efficiency drops significantly. DJI will almost certainly have designed around the 75% figure.

Friction/drag/weight are among the few areas where efficiency can be improved and still remain within the operational boundaries of the motor and I believe that is where MA are making small gains.

True, but I imagine they are also considering a typical use case, and probably thinking most people will be using the drone in tripod or normal mode. I'd bet if MA claims are true, they are most true for sport mode. It's possible you are right and DJI designed the drone to be optimally efficient at 50% or so motor speed, whereas at higher speeds a better match may have been made.

I tend to agree that DJI probably has a top notch engineering department, and certainly wouldn't leave performance on the table accidentally. They are probably also of the belief that drones "should" be audible so they are harder to lose, and less conducive to spying.