Materials cost of lens with variable aperture?

[Thmoore]

One big differentiator between the Mavic series and the Air and Mini series has been the aperture of the camera lens – variable for the Mavic, fixed for the others.

I'm curious – does anyone have any rough idea what the materials cost difference is? Obviously, if you go with a Hasselblad lens, that's gonna cost you, but if you are DJI and you are buying just a generic high-quality fixed-aperture lens versus a generic high-quality variable-aperture lens, what's the difference in cost?

I'm asking this as I am heading out to try out my $50 set of STARTRC ND filters, which I wouldn't need if my Air had a variable aperture. I'm guessing that DJI saved less than $50 by giving the Air a fixed-aperture lens, and denied it to the Airs just to keep some distance between the Air and Mavic lines. That makes some business sense, but it's a little irritating. (Having said that, I'm delighted with all the Mavic-line features they did add to the Air 3 – the second lens, waypoints, cruise control, mastershots, etc.)

 

[GFields]

aved less than $50

If that number were to be correct (but most like is not), multiply that by the thousands of units built. I have had great success with the Air 2s just using the EV adjustment.

 

[mobilehomer]

One big differentiator between the Mavic series and the Air and Mini series has been the aperture of the camera lens – variable for the Mavic, fixed for the others.

I'm curious – does anyone have any rough idea what the materials cost difference is? Obviously, if you go with a Hasselblad lens, that's gonna cost you, but if you are DJI and you are buying just a generic high-quality fixed-aperture lens versus a generic high-quality variable-aperture lens, what's the difference in cost?

I'm asking this as I am heading out to try out my $50 set of STARTRC ND filters, which I wouldn't need if my Air had a variable aperture. I'm guessing that DJI saved less than $50 by giving the Air a fixed-aperture lens, and denied it to the Airs just to keep some distance between the Air and Mavic lines. That makes some business sense, but it's a little irritating. (Having said that, I'm delighted with all the Mavic-line features they did add to the Air 3 – the second lens, waypoints, cruise control, mastershots, etc.)

Cost has zero to do with it. The weight alone requires a stronger, heavier gimbal. Plus the separation, feature-wise, from the Mavic 3 series. If you want all the features of a Mavic 3, that's what you buy.

 

[Thmoore]

Cost has zero to do with it. The weight alone requires a stronger, heavier gimbal. Plus the separation, feature-wise, from the Mavic 3 series. If you want all the features of a Mavic 3, that's what you buy.

Thank you! I understand that; what I’m wondering is, how much are they actually paying extra for a lens like that in order to differentiate the lines? The weight difference is interesting; thank you.

 

[mavic3usa]

Thank you! I understand that; what I’m wondering is, how much are they actually paying extra for a lens like that in order to differentiate the lines? The weight difference is interesting; thank you.

I'm more inclined to believe it is the other way around. Start off with the lower camera and then determine how much more will it cost DJI to get the better lens in the Mavic 3 with the weight trade-off taken into consideration. In this case, differentiation is a good thing when they decided to pull the trigger.

 

[Droning on and on...]

I doubt weight or cost was rigorously considered when developing the feature specification for the Air 3, w.r.t. this topic. Wouldn't surprise me if no one bothered to look at it.

That's because the Air 3 is part of a broader product line strategy, and was always destined to lack a variable aperture. This was a feature limitation before basic drawings had even been done, I'm 100% certain.

DJI makes money from charging a premium for this feature in the Mavic line, not by cost savings eliminating the aperture from the air series.

While weight is a consideration, it's not an obstacle to putting a variable aperture in a Mini, even. It's simply engineering. But it would be an incredibly bone-headed business decision.

 

[Torque]

I am heading out to try out my $50 set of STARTRC ND filters

What was your impression of these filters? I've been looking at them as well.

 

[old man mavic]

personally i think that DJI with the Mini 3 pro the Air 3 and the Mavic 3 pro have got a well balanced line up ,giving a wide spread of costs and abilities (and of course weight and size )
across the spectrum
with the Air 3 i cant see any need for supposed, S or pro versions ,in future ,the Air 3 has plenty of the features of its Mavic 3 cousins, at a reduced price point ,and to add more versions would just encroach on the Mavic 3 line up
i get the feeling that DJI will start to concentrate more on the higher end commercial markets ,when it comes to their future drone line up
its only possible to pack a certain amount of innovation into smaller packages ,but as components get smaller and lighter ,and batteries improve ,then of course anythings possible
all this has to be at a purchase cost, that economic conditions allow ,and what us the consumer is willing and able to pay ,
one of the pitfalls of being at the pinacol of a product line ,is that DJI have less wiggle room, when it comes to adding all the wonderful specs, that we as consumers keep asking for ,improving on the best is no easy task
with the Air 3 ,one area where DJI have definitely listened to users, is in releasing a drone, that has not needed constant updates ,to fix this or that ,as has been the case in the past ,yes there will be i am sure,subtle firmware updates, to enhance some of its capabilities,down the line ,but from my experience of having 3 various DJI drones on first release ,the Air 3 wins hands down

 

[Dave Maine]

If all you were trying to do is reduce the light getting to the sensor, reducing the sensitivity of the sensor would be a much better way to accomplish this. Reduced mechanical complexity, no weight increase, faster response time.

 

[Thmoore]

I doubt weight or cost was rigorously considered when developing the feature specification for the Air 3, w.r.t. this topic. Wouldn't surprise me if no one bothered to look at it.

That's because the Air 3 is part of a broader product line strategy, and was always destined to lack a variable aperture. This was a feature limitation before basic drawings had even been done, I'm 100% certain.

DJI makes money from charging a premium for this feature in the Mavic line, not by cost savings eliminating the aperture from the air series.

While weight is a consideration, it's not an obstacle to putting a variable aperture in a Mini, even. It's simply engineering. But it would be an incredibly bone-headed business decision.

Thanks for this. For the moment, I'm not curious about the reasons for differentiating product lines or how that plays out.

My question is only: How much more does it cost DJI to buy a lens with a variable aperture than one with a fixed aperture? (It sounds like no one knows any more than I do on that!)

 

[Droning on and on...]

To make sure, you mean how much does it cost to design and implement an aperture mechanism between the lens and the sensor, correct?

The lens has nothing to do with a variable aperture. Lenses are given an aperture equivalent specification based on how much light they pass and focus. So the aperture can be "increased" (aperture value decrease) simply by making it out of a better material with the same index of refraction.

 

[Thmoore]

To make sure, you mean how much does it cost to design and implement an aperture mechanism between the lens and the sensor, correct?

The lens has nothing to do with a variable aperture. Lenses are given an aperture equivalent specification based on how much light they pass and focus. So the aperture can be "increased" (aperture value decrease) simply by making it out of a better material with the same index of refraction.

I mean, whatever the individual parts are, what does it cost DJI to purchase a lens system that includes the ability to vary its aperture (as it supplies in the Mavics), versus what it costs 'em to purchase a lens system that cannot do that (as it supplies in the Airs).

 

[Thmoore]

What was your impression of these filters? I've been looking at them as well.

I don't know enough about ND filters to give any helpful analysis of them. They do seem nicely made.

 

[Droning on and on...]

OK, thank you for tha

I mean, whatever the individual parts are, what does it cost DJI to purchase a lens system that includes the ability to vary its aperture (as it supplies in the Mavics), versus what it costs 'em to purchase a lens system that cannot do that (as it supplies in the Airs).

I don't know the design parameters for the Air 3, so I don't know if DJI OEM's a complete camera module from lens back to sensor, and simply designs the gimbal around it, or designs the camera path in-house, sourcing lens and sensor (and aperture mechanism, if present).

So, given all the caveats, you can look here on Alibaba to get an idea for what iris/diaphragm of various sizes costs. Add a servo to operate it, and you have the Variable Aperture element of the camera.

I'd estimate, very roughly, the cost to DJI to include a diaphragm mechanism in the camera at around U$25-75.

 

[pommy]

You’ll still need ND filters, variable aperture or not

 

[Thmoore]

Wait, what? This goes against my very amateur understanding of all of this. Why would you still need them?

 

[Jasper68]

Wait, what? This goes against my very amateur understanding of all of this. Why would you still need them?

ND filters if your flying in early morning or at sun set to control sun glare....Sun glasses for Drone

 

[Thmoore]

Interesting, thanks! Is that a polarizing function or an ND-filter function?

 

[pommy]

For video, if you follow the 180° rule, on a bright sunny day - you will need ND filters to achieve it. An ND64 gives nice motion blur in images on a cloudy day, and on a bright day, and ND1000 or ND2000 works very well for waterfalls/waves motion blur (images) An ND8 yields great results at sunset or sunrise too (as per last persons post) but not for reducing reflection.

 

[GadgetGuy]

ND filters if your flying in early morning or at sun set to control sun glare....Sun glasses for Drone

Doesn't work that way.

Glare can only be reduced by polarized sunglasses, and they must also be at the correct angle to do anything other than darken the entire image.

Normal ND filters by definition are not polarized.
If you want polarization, you'll need to buy polarizing PL filters that may or may not have an additional ND component.

Eliminating the sun from the camera's field of view is the best way to eliminate sun glare.