Mavic 3 Pro not for EU or UK?

[wco81]

Specs is the Pro is 958 grams.

That means it can’t get a C1 mark or be eligible to fly in the A1 category, which is most like the current recreational drone flights permitted in the EU and the UK.

It could only get a C2 mark, which means A2 category, limiting where you can fly anywhere there is people or any kind of building.

Open Category - Civil Drones | EASA

The ‘open’ category section is the main reference for the majority of leisure drone activities and low-risk commercial activities. As a drone operator, remember to check if you need to register yourself. See the registration FAQ. The ‘open’ category is in turn subdivided in three sub-categories...

www.easa.europa.eu

it’s not clear if any other countries or regions will enforce a C1 mark or something comparable, limiting drone weight to 900 grams.

So that could the US, Oceania, Asia.

the original M3 and the M3C are under 900 grams.

 

[TwoSticks]

We dont have the exact same C1 and C2 ratings in the US. We have a system but the additional weight of the M3 Pro does not change anything for us. I could try to write out some of the rules but here is the link that does a better job. https://www.faa.gov/uas/commercial_operators/operations_over_people

We have a group right now working to make the first level 1Kg vs 250g. A DJI mini series is under 250g but to meet the first category you have to add guards to the props which makes it too heavy so in our case, DJI does not make anything that fits our first level.

 

[GadgetGuy]

DJI can make lighter Mavic 3 batteries just for the EU that are 65g less than the regular battery, with less flight time, just like they did for the Mini 2 for China with a 200g max weight. Certainly a possibility if the demand justifies it.

 

[wco81]

Well we will see how the smaller sensor cameras fare in the reviews.

Have to ask what would have greater utility and value, those telephoto cameras or bigger batteries.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Well we will see how the smaller sensor cameras fare in the reviews.

Have to ask what would have greater utility and value, those telephoto cameras or bigger batteries.

Weight of the Mavic 3 battery is 335g.
65g reduction to the battery (to get under 900g) is only a 20% weight reduction.
43 minutes minus 20% is still 34 minutes, as a rough gauge of the change.
I'd sacrifice those 8 minutes in a heartbeat on VLOS flights.
Just land and swap batteries for more flight time.
However, you can't add the extra invaluable 70mm camera after the fact!

 

[miemo]

Yeah the C2 classification of the Pro is a real bummer for urban flights in the EU (and UK as well, I guess). And that point doesn't get much discussion in the US-focused media or influencers, but has major impact on the drone's real world usage this side of the Atlantic.

Kinda feels like DJI just slapped the larger & heavier camera unit to the Mavic 3 body which was designed way back already and didn't bother too much about the EU&UK audience, i.e. probably will sell enough elsewhere (and to ignorant pilots here as well). I'm pretty sure if the design goal would've been from the beginning to get the 3 cam drone to go under 900g, it would've been possible – the simple battery weight calculation above is a good demonstration of that.

But I think we'll have to wait for Mavic 4 line to see that to happen. Would love to see those lighter EU-batteries though as an interim solution! But I doubt that they'll go that way after-the-fact, given how the Mini 3 Pro was strictly sold with smaller batteries in the EU from the start to keep the under 250g spec here.

 

[SkywalkerFeng]

Yeah the C2 classification of the Pro is a real bummer for urban flights in the EU (and UK as well, I guess). And that point doesn't get much discussion in the US-focused media or influencers, but has major impact on the drone's real world usage this side of the Atlantic.

Kinda feels like DJI just slapped the larger & heavier camera unit to the Mavic 3 body which was designed way back already and didn't bother too much about the EU&UK audience, i.e. probably will sell enough elsewhere (and to ignorant pilots here as well). I'm pretty sure if the design goal would've been from the beginning to get the 3 cam drone to go under 900g, it would've been possible – the simple battery weight calculation above is a good demonstration of that.

But I think we'll have to wait for Mavic 4 line to see that to happen. Would love to see those lighter EU-batteries though as an interim solution! But I doubt that they'll go that way after-the-fact, given how the Mini 3 Pro was strictly sold with smaller batteries in the EU from the start to keep the under 250g spec here.

Time to embrace the reality - the next drone down the Mavic line will either add a 4th camera (ultra-wide) or switch to true optical zoom lens. In both cases the weight is going up, not down. And I doubt DJI will shrink the battery to solve the weight problem for EU market.

The goal of more creative freedom and less weight just doesn't work together.

 

[miemo]

The goal of more creative freedom and less weight just doesn't work together.

Well there‘s something to be said for actually being able to USE the tools meant for creative freedom

 

[GadgetGuy]

Well there‘s something to be said for actually being able to USE the tools meant for creative freedom

You still can! Not all creativity is necessarily legal!

 

[GadgetGuy]

And I doubt DJI will shrink the battery to solve the weight problem for EU market.

The goal of more creative freedom and less weight just doesn't work together.

The precedent has already been set. Creating the option of a lighter M3 battery for EU use is not all that that unlikely. DJI did it themselves for the Mini 2 for China, where the exempt weight is 200g. They shrank the weight by 20%, and reduced flight time. Similarly, they created a Plus battery for the Mini 3 Pro to extend flight time, while exceeding 250g.

Even if DJI chooses not to do it themselves, altered aftermarket batteries will certainly become available, if the demand is high enough, just like the double battery packs made for the other earlier Mavics to increase flight time. Works both ways! A lighter, lower mAh M3 battery should be even easier to create than a double battery! Just remove a few cells inside.

Creative freedom and less weight can coexist, if flight time is sacrificed.

 

[Skyscope]

Would love to see those lighter EU-batteries though as an interim solution!

Unfortunately that wouldn't help.

You cannot choose the class at will depending on the purpose of the operation, neither the user nor the manufacturer can do that.
A UAS is either classified according to C1 or C2. And if a UAS is classified according to C2, a takeoff weight of less than 900g does not make it a C1-UAS.

The relevant size is not the respective takeoff weight, but the MTOM (Maximum Takeoff Mass), i.e. the maximum possible takeoff weight including the available (and in the manual specified) accessories.
So if an MTOM were to be implemented with a weight-reduced battery of less than 900g for class C1, the normal battery should no longer be offered at all in the EU, and DJI should then no longer be able to market the flight time of 43 minutes in the EU.
Not the best way to market a "Pro" drone, if it's flight time is significant lower than with it's "Classic" brother.

But why DJI limits the MTOM to just 958g for a C2 drone, which can have a MTOM up to 4 kg according to the classification requirements, will probably remain their secret forever.

 

[wco81]

Again, I still want to see several reviews about the quality of the tele cameras and their utility.

No panoramas and did I hear no DNGs from at least one of the tele cameras?

It may be dead weight for a lot of people.

 

[miemo]

So if an MTOM were to be implemented with a weight-reduced battery of less than 900g for class C1, the normal battery should no longer be offered at all in the EU, and DJI should then no longer be able to market the flight time of 43 minutes in the EU.

Yeah, exactly what I was referring to with how the Mini 3 Pro was treated from day 1 in EU. Now that the cat is out of the bag already with EU-availability of the current Mavic 3 Pro, hard to see how they could revert things anymore to C1.

 

[miemo]

You still can! Not all creativity is necessarily legal!

It‘s gonna be a pretty hard sell to clients: “yeah I CAN get the shot you need, but it’s just illlegal. Are you willing to handle the legal costs?”

 

[GadgetGuy]

Unfortunately that wouldn't help.

You cannot choose the class at will depending on the purpose of the operation, neither the user nor the manufacturer can do that.
A UAS is either classified according to C1 or C2. And if a UAS is classified according to C2, a takeoff weight of less than 900g does not make it a C1-UAS.

The relevant size is not the respective takeoff weight, but the MTOM (Maximum Takeoff Mass), i.e. the maximum possible takeoff weight including the available (and in the manual specified) accessories.
So if an MTOM were to be implemented with a weight-reduced battery of less than 900g for class C1, the normal battery should no longer be offered at all in the EU, and DJI should then no longer be able to market the flight time of 43 minutes in the EU.
Not the best way to market a "Pro" drone, if it's flight time is significant lower than with it's "Classic" brother.

But why DJI limits the MTOM to just 958g for a C2 drone, which can have a MTOM up to 4 kg according to the classification requirements, will probably remain their secret forever.

I'm sure DJI would happily reduce the flight time to an advertised 35 minutes with the universal class C1 for the EU, somehow preventing the heavier battery from being used, with a class C2 version also available. Pro has never been associated with the longest flight times. It's the image quality and speed that make it Pro.

Most Pros and consumers in the EU would happily sacrifice 20% of the flight time to be able to fly an M3P as a Class 1.

 

[GadgetGuy]

It‘s gonna be a pretty hard sell to clients: “yeah I CAN get the shot you need, but it’s just illegal. Are you willing to handle the legal costs?”

True dat!

 

[Skyscope]

Most Pros and consumers in the EU would happily sacrifice 20% of the flight time to be able to fly an M3P as a Class 1.

Don't think so.

Speaking for Germany, most serious Pros have the Remote Pilot Certificate for C2 in A2 anyway, not only because they have been able to fly the Mavic 2 Pro and other drones above 500g near people and infrastructure since early 2022, but also because it's required in other licensing processes beyond the open category. So most Pros don't care much about C2 instead of C1.

But sure, Consumers might bother with C2. But I don't see many consumers buy a 3.000+ € drone package in the EU anyway. Far most of them are buying DJI Minis, with far less legal requirements but with absolutely sufficient image quality for Hobbyists, in regards of the Mini 3 Pro even with 10-Bit video.
And the few enthusiasts among the hobbyists just have to pass the A2 pilot's certificate, that won't stop them either buying a Mavic 3 Pro.

Just my 2 ct.

 

[miemo]

Speaking for Germany, most serious Pros have the Remote Pilot Certificate for C2 in A2 anyway, not only because they have been able to fly the Mavic 2 Pro and other drones above 500g near people and infrastructure since early 2022, but also because it's required in other licensing processes beyond the open category. So most Pros don't care much about C2 instead of C1.

Even with EU Remote Pilot Certificate you still have major limitations with C2 drones compared to C1 regarding urban areas. So not a non-issue even for pros.

 

[WorkHardFlyHarder]

Even with EU Remote Pilot Certificate you still have major limitations with C2 drones compared to C1 regarding urban areas. So not a non-issue even for pros.

It is possible to fly these kinds of drones over crowds, even the Inspire 3 or the M30T for that matter. However, doing so places you in the 'Specific' or 'Restricted' category. To fly in that category you need to apply for a permit which - at least in my country - costs more than the Mavic 3, the Mavic 3 Pro and the Mini 3 Pro combined. And you need a legal department assisting you in writing flight plans, (SORA) risk-assessments and whatnot. It's not fun, even for pro's. Not to mention the mandatory radio communication in civilized CTR's.

Perhaps the template based plans (standard scenario's) will ease the administrative burden somewhat, but it's basically not for solo content creators.

On the flip side: if you manage to get a permit from the autority, it's valid across Europe. So that's at least something, it does make it a lot easier to be granted elsewhere.

 

[Skyscope]

Even with EU Remote Pilot Certificate you still have major limitations with C2 drones compared to C1 regarding urban areas. So not a non-issue even for pros.

You have to keep a distance of 5 meters to uninvolved people in low speed mode, that's all. Even in C1 you are not generally allowed to overfly uninvolved people, you have to "reasonably expect that no uninvolved person will be overflown".
That may make a big difference for you, but it doesn't matter for my operations. Even if I fly so close to people with Mavics today, I'll make them part of my operation beforehand. And in cases where I really need to overfly people, I'll take a Sub 250g drone like a Mini 3 Pro.

There are always compromises to be made. For example, even with C2 drones we still have to live with comparatively modest plastic lenses, explanation and more information here Mavic 3 color shifting in white balance / color tint