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Is it worth getting a drone (for photos) when there are few places to fly in the UK?

JeffRUK

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Hello! I am new to this forum and I am looking for some advice and opinions from experienced UK flyers.

I have been thinking about buying the Mini 3 Pro to take pictures of pretty and/or dramatic places in the UK. I do not yet own a drone (although I used one with a very short flight time for fun about 10 years ago) but I have been reading about the drone code, CAA requirements, operational categories and so on. Having read lots of the available information online it seems the places you can legally fly such a drone in the UK are very limited (despite the model being below 250g).

For example, I live close to the Peak District national park but that has by-laws that say you cannot fly from Peak District land or even over it (unless it’s a privately owned part of the park and the land owner has given permission). According to their web sites, most of the other national parks in the UK have the same policies or by-laws as the Peak District.

So my questions are… Is it worth the investment in a drone to take pictures of pretty places in the UK when I am likely to find I have very few such places to legally fly it? Am I correct in my conclusion that there are few places? Also, I think it might help me to make a decision if people say how they find legal places to photograph or film by drone in the UK.
 
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...the Peak District national park but that has by-laws that say you cannot fly from Peak District land or even over it.
Are you really sure about the last there in the sentence... just flying over it?

Usually local authorities can ban drone operations taking place from or too their property (meaning taking off, landing & operating)... but the air space above it is not under their authority instead UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).

Not much marked as a restriction zone according to below ( No Fly Drones )

1680093171731.png
 
I have looked at their policy and their so called bylaw which is very weaselly worded and a lawyer would drive a bus through it. Key point is they do not own the airspace and there is only a small restricted airspace in the whole of the Peak District around a glider club. They can only prevent you from take off and landing on land they own. However, whilst declared a 'National Park' they own very little of the land which is nearly all private landowners. Find a Take off spot close to the public highway but not on private land and you won't be breaking any laws. Don't use their official car parks. I use the 'Altitude Angel' app to see the UK map of restricted airspace which is really useful. Don't let local authority bullies put you off, there are amazing places to fly in the UK.
 
Are you really sure about the last there in the sentence... just flying over it?

Usually local authorities can ban drone operations taking place from or too their property (meaning taking off, landing & operating)... but the air space above it is not under their authority instead UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).

Not much marked as a restriction zone according to below ( No Fly Drones )

View attachment 162071
Are you really sure about the last there in the sentence... just flying over it?

Usually local authorities can ban drone operations taking place from or too their property (meaning taking off, landing & operating)... but the air space above it is not under their authority instead UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).

Not much marked as a restriction zone according to below ( No Fly Drones )

View attachment 162071
Thanks for the response. I did recheck and you are right that they make no mention of flying over their land. However, other national parks (eg New Forest) do say you need permission to fly over their land, which - like you - I understood to be untrue.
 
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Hi!

I'm also new to the drone scene but haven't come across rules like you have mentioned above as of yet. I have a few apps as mentioned by another member above to check if there are restrictions in place. But I wouldnt let it put you off, if you want to get some footage of a particular place then do your research and if need be contact the local trust or council and ask the question I'm sure most places would be happy for you to get some footage with little hassle. As far as I was aware you can practically fly the DJI mini 3 Pro anywhere due to its 249g status apart from the obvious restrictions like airports/fields, military bases places like that. I'm sure someone will correct my if I'm wrong but as I said I'm learning also! 🙂
 
NT land is a big no no too.
One that I know of is the Giant's Causeway, it's got to attract hundreds of would be drone flyers every year.
However.....it's coastal and The Crown owns tidal land/zone ........ and no it is not a wildlife sanctuary etc..
If ever I was there I would be tempted but only in the early morning or evening when the tourist have gone, waves would be a problem too, it's Atlantic coast line.
One thing to watch out for is whether or not over flights would disturb wildlife, if so and especially if it's protected species etc. then you might be in the wrong to overfly ( legally and or morally ).
 
NT land is a big no no too.
One that I know of is the Giant's Causeway, it's got to attract hundreds of would be drone flyers every year.
However.....it's coastal and The Crown owns tidal land/zone ........ and no it is not a wildlife sanctuary etc..
If ever I was there I would be tempted but only in the early morning or evening when the tourist have gone, waves would be a problem too, it's Atlantic coast line.
One thing to watch out for is whether or not over flights would disturb wildlife, if so and especially if it's protected species etc. then you might be in the wrong to overfly ( legally and or morally ).
Good post. If you are responsible and use your common sense in any given situation you are unlikely to go astray.
 
Hello! I am new to this forum and I am looking for some advice and opinions from experienced UK flyers.

I have been thinking about buying the Mini 3 Pro to take pictures of pretty and/or dramatic places in the UK. I do not yet own a drone (although I used one with a very short flight time for fun about 10 years ago) but I have been reading about the drone code, CAA requirements, operational categories and so on. Having read lots of the available information online it seems the places you can legally fly such a drone in the UK are very limited (despite the model being below 250g).

For example, I live close to the Peak District national park but that has by-laws that say you cannot fly from Peak District land or even over it (unless it’s a privately owned part of the park and the land owner has given permission). According to their web sites, most of the other national parks in the UK have the same policies or by-laws as the Peak District.

So my questions are… Is it worth the investment in a drone to take pictures of pretty places in the UK when I am likely to find I have very few such places to legally fly it? Am I correct in my conclusion that there are few places? Also, I think it might help me to make a decision if people say how they find legal places to photograph or film by drone in the UK.
oh no! for the past five years I have been flying where someone else thinks I should not.
All being well I shall continue to fly legally and all over the UK without any Karen telling me I can not.

If its OK for the King then its OK by me.

There is nothing to stop you flying over over Peak District Land.
 
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Thanks for the response. I did recheck and you are right that they make no mention of flying over their land. However, other national parks (eg New Forest) do say you need permission to fly over their land, which - like you - I understood to be untrue.
'
you need permission to fly over their land' Which
is granted by the CAA if done safely and legally.
 
@JeffRUK as others have stated ,its all down to using a bit of common sense,the time when you fly ,and being aware of the possibility of disturbing nesting birds ,and that includes reducing the risk to your drone ,as birds can be very territorial during the breeding season,and will quite happily attempt to bring your drone down if they see it as a threat
and just to be clear ,although flying in so called areas that say you cant ,because they dont like drones ,or the fact you can access their property ,and take pictures without paying ,a sometimes quite expensive ,entrance fee to see what they have control of
they can should they so desire ,take out a civil case against you if you have really annoyed them ,or they feel that they would like to make an example of you to deter others
they will have the resources for such an action ,but will you
sometimes its just better ,if you are filming and get approached be landowners,to just accept their request to stop ,be polite and move on ,there's always tomorrow
 
Before accepting statements which could be misinformation in relation to the Peaks National Park, you need to read this:-
I had read this and it was one of the documents that influenced my thinking that there are few pretty or dramatic places to legally fly a drone.

It also helps to confuse me about the law regarding flying over (not from) public and private land.

One example of the confusion I see are the many websites that quote the law concerning higher and lower airspace above land and refer to section 76 of the Civil Aviation Act 1982. Wikipedia also does this saying “The upper stratum is the space above which ordinary use and enjoyment by the property owner is reasonable, and is loosely defined in the Section 76 Civil Aviation Act 1982 as starting between 500 and 1,000 feet (150 and 300 m) above the roof level of the property.” But when I look at section 76 of the law (at legislation.gov.uk) I can see no such definition.

Perhaps this question / issue is already covered in other threads.
 
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I think that much confusion is caused by the blurred lines between statute law and civil law.
In the case of those landowners who have bye laws, and in particular, those examples on that page where there are specific bye laws prohibiting flights of "powered" model aircraft, (which includes drones) then to overfly their land with such without their authorisation is a byelaw offence (which derives power from statutory law) and subject to supplying a name and address (which to refuse is a further criminal offence) and then a sanction of a level 2 fine on the national scale (currently £500) The height above their land is absolutely immaterial to the byelaws and anyway, it is an offence under CAA law to fly a drone more than 400 feet above the closest piece of land.

Then we come to civil law, which is what most drone flyers have in mind with their insistence on who owns the airspace above the land they are overflying and that they are doing nothing wrong. Civil law is remedial restitution. A drone flyer must technically always have the permission of the land owner over whose land he or she is intending to overfly, otherwise he or she commits a "torte" under civil law which is an extension of the torte of trespass. There are no sanctions, but under civil law the land owner has the right to request a "trespasser" to leave the land and by implication a drone flyer should desist immediately if requested to do so by a landowner, otherwise they are extending the trespass torte. (Even if not on the land themselves)

The only legal "restitution" under civil law is the implications of claiming damages and suing the trespasser for any damage caused, which could include "privacy" issues and "harassment." This course of action is notoriously difficult to execute in a civil court but we have to remember that the burden of proof in a civil court is much less stringent that in a criminal court.

The conclusion of all this??

The flight over private land is NOT as simple an issue as some would believe and if confronted with a landowner asking a drone flyer to desist, then it is wise to comply and live to fight another day.
 
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I think that much confusion is caused by the blurred lines between statute law and civil law.
In the case of those landowners who have bye laws, and in particular, those examples on that page where there are specific bye laws prohibiting flights of "powered" model aircraft, (which includes drones) then to overfly their land with such without their authorisation is a byelaw offence (which derives power from statutory law) and subject to supplying a name and address (which to refuse is a further criminal offence) and then a sanction of a level 2 fine on the national scale (currently £500) The height above their land is absolutely immaterial to the byelaws and anyway, it is an offence under CAA law to fly a drone more than 400 feet above the closest piece of land.

Then we come to civil law, which is what most drone flyers have in mind with their insistence on who owns the airspace above the land they are overflying and that they are doing nothing wrong. Civil law is remedial restitution. A drone flyer must technically always have the permission of the land owner over whose land he or she is intending to overfly, otherwise he or she commits a "torte" under civil law which is an extension of the torte of trespass. There are no sanctions, but under civil law the land owner has the right to request a "trespasser" to leave the land and by implication a drone flyer should desist immediately if requested to do so by a landowner, otherwise they are extending the trespass torte. (Even if not on the land themselves)

The only legal "restitution" under civil law is the implications of claiming damages and suing the trespasser for any damage caused, which could include "privacy" issues and "harassment." This course of action is notoriously difficult to execute in a civil court but we have to remember that the burden of proof in a civil court is much less stringent that in a criminal court.

The conclusion of all this??

The flight over private land is NOT as simple an issue as some would believe and if confronted with a landowner asking a drone flyer to desist, then it is wise to comply and live to fight another day.
it is something of a rabbit hole, isn’t it? Nevertheless, it is interesting.

Searching for tort of trespass with regard to airspace above land and property results in references to case law and a particular case from 1978 (no one seems to mention any later cases but there again I don’t have access to a case law database). For example, this is from lawteacher.net:

”Further Trespass Rules
There are three particulars of trespass which bear mentioning. Firstly, ‘land’ should be given its proper property law definition - it includes the air above a piece of property and the soil below. Essentially, land rights can be pictured not as a 2D plane on a map, but rather as a 3D ‘cube’ that the owner gets to enjoy the rights to. There is an upper and lower height limit to this cube, however, as seen in Bernstein v Skyviews and General Ltd [1978] QB 479. The defendant took aerial photos of houses and then offered them to the owners. The claimant argued that the defendant had trespassed into his airspace to take the photograph, and had thus trespassed. The claim however, failed, the airspace rights only extended up as far “as is necessary for the ordinary use and enjoyment of land””.

Note that the claim of trespass failed in this case, (which is lucky for Google Maps!). But I have not found any case law that provides a definition of what is a reasonable height for trespass not to be actionable, (despite many websites stating anything above 500 feet is in that realm).

But the advice to be cautious and compliant if confronted is of course a good one (even if the situation is annoying!).
 
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There is another misconception right there.

In Civil Law a tort for "trespass" does not have the same meaning of it does in Criminal Law.

Under UK Criminal Law a "trespass" is committed in relation to the presence of a person on another's land or in another's property. In the UK Criminal Trespass is only a specific punishable offence on certain properties such as Railway property, MOD property and Atomic Authority property. In any other Criminal case it is an element of an offence such as Burglary where under Section 9 of the Theft Act 1968 where a person enters a building or part of a building as a "trespasser" with intent to steal or commit other offences.

In civil law a "Torte " of trespass does not necessarily involve property or land. A civil trespass can merely involve the infringements of the rights of an individual by another.

Think of the Lord's prayer where we are asked to "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those those who trespass against us."

The "trespass" in this instance and under common law is NOT related to property ownership, but merely the infringement of that person's rights.

All very complicated, but illustrates perfectly the misunderstandings of the legal positions that we can get into.
 
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I tend to fly well away from people or buildings (minimises the chance of anyone being annoyed by the drone's presence), and also get up to 60m+ as soon as possible (you can't even hear a Mini 3 Pro at that height, and it's not easy to see if you don't know it's there). After of course checking for any airspace restrictions on Dronescene.

If you don't cause a nuisance, even in places where people feel they have a right to object to a drone's presence then you're unlikely to be challenged. If I was to be, then a polite "I'm sorry, I didn't realise as it's not on the CAA no-fly information that I checked before I took off. I'll land and leave the area." should be sufficient.

The issue is that nobody has really tested any non-CAA restrictions to drone flight in court, so it remains a grey area where landowners believe they have rights that may or may not actually be enforceable. There are plenty of places where landowners aren't bothered, and if you stick to the rules that you know about (ie CAA's drone code) then there shouldn't be any problems.
 
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I tend to fly well away from people or buildings (minimises the chance of anyone being annoyed by the drone's presence), and also get up to 60m+ as soon as possible (you can't even hear a Mini 3 Pro at that height, and it's not easy to see if you don't know it's there). After of course checking for any airspace restrictions on Dronescene.

If you don't cause a nuisance, even in places where people feel they have a right to object to a drone's presence then you're unlikely to be challenged. If I was to be, then a polite "I'm sorry, I didn't realise as it's not on the CAA no-fly information that I checked before I took off. I'll land and leave the area." should be sufficient.

The issue is that nobody has really tested any non-CAA restrictions to drone flight in court, so it remains a grey area where landowners believe they have rights that may or may not actually be enforceable. There are plenty of places where landowners aren't bothered, and if you stick to the rules that you know about (ie CAA's drone code) then there shouldn't be any problems.
An eminently perfect attitude.
 
I think there is no chance for you to fly anywhere.
I will send you my address, so you can send me the drone.
That way it will save you having to find out where to dump it :)
 
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