Mavic Pro-2 vs Zoom and P4P - Line Skipping + Sensor Heat?

Cliff_622 · Sep 25, 2018

Line skipping and center crop technically do NOT "use the full sensor". However "pixel binning" or DJI's "special pixel binning" DOES use every pixel in a 49 16x9 aspect ratio. They are all used for cluster averaging. So,...they are legally safe there.

Also, photography uses the full sensor scan us normal.

To date, I have not seen DJI make any false legal claims yet. Except that this sensor is NOT "1 inch" in size at all. It's SMALLER that 1 inch. It should be labeled "1 inch-TYPE" the way Sony legal department does it.

Aside from that, DJI never said it would match the Phantom 4 Pro. It was only "US" that thought it would!

Cliff Totten

Cliff_622 · Sep 25, 2018

DJI pretty much confirms my video. Sadly there is no real answer as to why it was all this sub-sampling was "REQUIRED" in the first place!

sar104 · Sep 25, 2018

Cliff_622 said:
Line skipping and center crop technically do NOT "use the full sensor". However "pixel binning" or DJI's "special pixel binning" DOES use every pixel in a 49 16x9 aspect ratio. They are all used for cluster averaging. So,...they are legally safe there.

Also, photography uses the full sensor scan us normal.

To date, I have not seen DJI make any false legal claims yet. Except that this sensor is NOT "1 inch" in size at all. It's SMALLER that 1 inch. It should be labeled "1 inch-TYPE" the way Sony legal department does it.

Aside from that, DJI never said it would match the Phantom 4 Pro. It was only "US" that thought it would!

Cliff Totten

The answer must be that DJI could not find a way to read out the entire 20 MP and downsample in post processing to 4k even at 30 fps. They wanted a 20 MP sensor for still photography and this is the compromise for 4k FOV mode - an inappropriate low-pass filter. It would be interesting to know the exact engineering details that allows it on the P4P but not the M2P.

Cliff_622 · Sep 25, 2018

sar104 said:
The answer must be that DJI could not find a way to read out the entire 20 MP and downsample in post processing to 4k even at 30 fps. They wanted a 20 MP sensor for still photography and this is the compromise for 4k FOV mode - an inappropriate low-pass filter. It would be interesting to know the exact engineering details that allows it on the P4P but not the M2P.

The Phantom 4 Pro uses an Ambarella H1. The Mavic 2 Pro is still unclear what image processor they are using. I searched Ambarella and found their quarterly earnings report say that DJI has moved on from Ambarella and is now developing their own video processors. Did DJI create a new image processor on their own? If so,...that could be dangerous! lol Who knows what video processor SOC problems they are having? Did they develop a chip that is already maxed out? If so, I bet Ambarella is laughing their tails off at DJI right now! ( I can her them saying to DJI,..see?,...you never should have left us!" lol

The plot thickens......

sar104 · Sep 25, 2018

Cliff_622 said:
The Phantom 4 Pro uses an Ambarella H1. The Mavic 2 Pro is still unclear what image processor they are using. I searched Ambarella and found their quarterly earnings report say that DJI has moved on from Ambarella and is now developing their own video processors. Did DJI create a new image processor on their own? If so,...that could be dangerous! lol Who knows what video processor SOC problems they are having? Did they develop a chip that is already maxed out? If so, I bet Ambarella is laughing their tails off at DJI right now! ( I can her them saying to DJI,..see?,...you never should have left us!" lol

The plot thickens......

In which case I'd bet that was the issue behind the release delay.

Lon Denard · Sep 25, 2018

Bobnecat said:
Some opinions are better kept to yourself or your close circle - yes I mean politics.

3 Persons at minimum - Cliff, Sockeye and Chunky.

I might have missed something but who is the "expert"?

I don't think this is subject matter. No one is testing/discussing Anafi here.

The main argument is BAD quality in 4k FOV mode M2P is delivering - please refer to post #1. P4P (2 year old drone) is taken as a benchmark, an example here, so is GoPro cameras and Autel - they all deliver more detailed images at 4k at larger field of view during day time, which is 90% of time most will be using this drone(my subjective opinion on the 90%).

Seems kind off self contradictory. I express my opinion, which is if you are totally happy with it maybe you should hang out in other threads.

The intent here, if you did not get it, is to hold DJI accountable for something they did not deliver but advertised - that is 4k resolution (Hasselblad iconic image quality), not to trash down DJI. Who knows, maybe they will finally admit and resolve this issue and YOU will get to benefit from questions being asked in this thread.

Please refer to the statement above.

You literally joined the forum to mess with me! Hahaha! I was going to run this further but I'm bored. I can't think of anymore dumb things to say to give you stuff to quote. Thanks for playing though. Sigh, is this the best trolling that's available these days?

prothorin · Sep 25, 2018

Maybe they use Hasselblad image processor?

Lon Denard · Sep 25, 2018

supergimp said:
FWIW, DroneDJ just published DJI's response to the issue. A tiny bit of information amidst corporate speak. I'm happy with my M2P for the record.

Mavic 2 Pro uses pixel binning or line skipping? Here's DJI's official answer - DroneDJ

Um this isn't new... This is the same answer they have weeks ago. This along with Mad RC's video helped me understand what the camera's limitations were and I decided I was good with it. I only film in HQ mode. DJI has an official LUT for DLog M I'm going to start using as soon as I finish updating my computer to better handle H265. I'm seriously happy with my drone, especially since I got the DJI ND filters! Yay!

Lon Denard · Sep 25, 2018

Cliff_622 said:
Hey guys,...let's all be SUPER honest here. This entire topic is literally 100% purely subjective. One man can call an image pure ****, and another can call that same image pure Heaven! We are all just giving our own B.S opinions and nothing more.

If I say my GoPro Hero 3 puts out the BEST image I have even seen and will ever see in my life. How can people say my opinion is "wrong"? Everybody pays attention to images in very VERY different ways. Some are causal viewers and might quickly say it's amazing, be satisfied and move on. Others might stare passionately into and image and study it deeply until they get satisfied..

My own wife tells me..

."Cliff,...why do you pay soooooo mutch attention to the things in your drone videos?"
"Cant you just fly, get your shot, watch it quickly and move on?"
"Why do you have to STUDY and analyze ALL the things in your video?"
"Why do you CARE soooo much about this stuff?"

My own wife tells me she cant even tell the difference between a DVD movie and a Blu-ray. And,...even if she DID see a difference,...she really just "doesn't give a darn anyway."

We are all like this to varying degrees!!! Some drone buyers are just like my wife. They dont have a passion for imagery...it's not in their DNA and that is FINE! However, I'm on the other side. I LOVE imagery and I'm very passionate about it. I love being WOW'd by it!

Yes,...I get it. we are all different and we all "care" in very different amounts. But this does NOT mean some are "right" and some are "wrong". It's just they way we are wired.

If you are happy with your Spark or Mavic or Phantom,...then just be happy and don't concern yourself with other people that are not happy with theirs and have a different opinion than you.

When people tell me their 1080 Spark is the best and all they will ever need?...I say: "You rock!,..I'm happy you found what you like". That's all I say to them.... even though the Spark is not good enough for "me".

Cliff Totten.

It's that why you started all of this? Hmmm?

Lon Denard · Sep 25, 2018

gnirtS said:
No they wont.

Again no they're not. DJI makes no misleading claims.

And as the engineer stated, it does use the full sensor.

I guess also you'll want legal action against Nikon and Canon who also provide 4k video from a crop of the sensor? Unlike DJI canon doesnt even provide a full FOV 4k mode.

The only people squealing about misleading claims are those that don't understand camera or sensor technology (and likely knew nothing of the video until finding click bait videos on youtube)

Where have you been? I've been all alone here...sniffle...

Lon Denard · Sep 25, 2018

Sockeye said:
Flight Time is about 8-10min, I have no idea what you mean with "video range" (FPV cam (+ Gorpo) = always on) and the only "obstacle avoidance" there is, are my eyes and reaction.
But it can identify a brick wall at least as good as any DJI product, with a slight advantage with telephone lines and thin branches...

Sounds like my 3DR Solo...

Lon Denard · Sep 25, 2018

Bobnecat said:
His work was most likely paid promo for DJI, since in truth he did not mention much new info about the product aside from officially advertised features. Seems he got the drone long ago, might have been one of the first ones to get the new mavics as he himself states in the video that this was shot in Greece and his tan was almost gone by the time he was filming from his home.

I have downloaded his original edit and watched it multiple times... While operator work, the composition, lighting and music are definitely at the top, the clarity itself is lacking (look at trees / branches even at close fly-by scenes). You can tell the footage was quite heavily sharpened in the post, which creates that noise-like shivering pixel effect (very fine grain). By no means i'm trying to tell that his footage is oversharpened, instead that there is considerable amount of post-processing involved to get to a quality of a movie that was originally released in 2000s and later re-released in 4k blue-ray (again, clarity-wise). Watch Matrix 4k trailer on youtube to understand what I mean. Unfortunately Mavic 2 Pro does not deliver true 4k at FOV mode, not even close to it, so the only thing that can make user image sharp and detailed is the creative approach and editing skills. All other aspects such as low light, the dynamic range and DLOG are definitely a win.

So is it true 4k in HQ mode?

Phoenix Drone · Sep 25, 2018

Watash48 said:
Did I just make a mistake by purchasing the Mavic 2 pro? It hasn't shipped yet and would like to know if I should have selected a different model? Please reply ASAP, I will need to contact support in the morning.

Thank you,
Steve

Let us know what happens. Thanks.

Lon Denard · Sep 25, 2018

Cliff_622 said:
Guys....I have been saying this and warning DJI about this: Sony fabs these sensor but they never, EVER market them as a "1inch' sensor. Sony legal department makes them call it a "1 inch-TYPE" sensor. Its size is based on vacume tube circuit measurements...not 1inch on a ruler. DJI marketing is not smart enough to follow Sony's lead and they keep saying its a 1 inch sensor on all DJI marketing! They are misleading their customers. They need to follow Sony and say "1 inch-TYPE" sensor. I have said this over and over and DJI is going to get busted if they dont listen!

Is there even such a thing as a true 1 inch sensor? I thought they were all around 16mm?

Lon Denard · Sep 25, 2018

czhoume said:
Thanks for the video! So I am debating if I should return my Pro for the Zoom. I really like being able to zoom in without getting close. I don't care about the dolly zoom. So it looks like shooting in HQ, I am like 40 mm compared with 48 mm on the Zoom but still have a better sensor even though cropped. It sounds like I should keep the Pro from this perspective.

The other one I really cared about is the dynamic range. Is there any video showing how big the difference is in dynamic range between the Zoom and Pro? I am a little upset seeing that Max said not much difference in this video compared with Air:

I'm waiting on Bo for that one too. There are actual tests that can be run that aren't subjective b's.

Here's why I love shooting on HQ! Ignore my crap editing, I'm still working on it. The pay off is towards the end and this is a couple days after I got it.

Lon Denard · Sep 26, 2018

Cliff_622 said:
Line skipping and center crop technically do NOT "use the full sensor". However "pixel binning" or DJI's "special pixel binning" DOES use every pixel in a 49 16x9 aspect ratio. They are all used for cluster averaging. So,...they are legally safe there.

Also, photography uses the full sensor scan us normal.

To date, I have not seen DJI make any false legal claims yet. Except that this sensor is NOT "1 inch" in size at all. It's SMALLER that 1 inch. It should be labeled "1 inch-TYPE" the way Sony legal department does it.

Aside from that, DJI never said it would match the Phantom 4 Pro. It was only "US" that thought it would!

Cliff Totten

Geez, I would swear that there has been someone else saying this the whole time this has gone on! Now who could that be? Hmmmm....

Lon Denard · Sep 26, 2018

Cliff_622 said:
The Phantom 4 Pro uses an Ambarella H1. The Mavic 2 Pro is still unclear what image processor they are using. I searched Ambarella and found their quarterly earnings report say that DJI has moved on from Ambarella and is now developing their own video processors. Did DJI create a new image processor on their own? If so,...that could be dangerous! lol Who knows what video processor SOC problems they are having? Did they develop a chip that is already maxed out? If so, I bet Ambarella is laughing their tails off at DJI right now! ( I can her them saying to DJI,..see?,...you never should have left us!" lol

The plot thickens......

Oh yea, as soon as this dies down,you should make a video about how DJI is making their own processors and that's what's causing the "problems" with Mavic 2 Pro.