Mavic Pro-2 vs Zoom and P4P - Line Skipping + Sensor Heat?

[Lon Denard]

Well, as "hyped the camera as better or as good as the P4P" is inherently subjective, it's a pointless argument to have.

Also, in my lengthening years on this mortal coil I've come to find those who believe there is anything such as "truly unbiased" has a lot of learning to do.

It's always amusing to me when someone says that an argument is pointless while they engage in it... It is not "subjective", did they ever say that the M2P compares in video quality to the P4P? No they did not. It is a pointless argument in that you all are wrong! Hahaha!

 

[dwallersv]

It is not "subjective", did they ever say that the M2P compares in video quality to the P4P? No they did not.

Correct, they did not. You are absolutely right.

They also did not provide a seasonal forecast for the winter of 2019 in North America.

Neither fact provides proof that DJI didn't mislead people with their marketing campaign. You would have to be able too see how subjective and emotionally driven such campaigns are, which apparently you can't.

Hence the subjective nature of the "hype" you are completely blind to.

 

[dirkclod]

If you guys are just going to argue and not be civil I do not see any reason to let it go on .

Please continue but be civil .

 

[Lon Denard]

Correct, they did not. You are absolutely right.

They also did not provide a seasonal forecast for the winter of 2019 in North America.

Neither fact provides proof that DJI didn't mislead people with their marketing campaign. You would have to be able too see how subjective and emotionally driven such campaigns are, which apparently you can't.

Hence the subjective nature of the "hype" you are completely blind to.

DJI hype or YouTube hype? That's my point. They literally had a launch event and what's on their website. Yep that's a massive marketing campaign for sure! Woo wee the billboards, commercials, magazine ads, fliers, robo calls.... Hahaha!

So if they don't mention the weather, they are responsible for it? Huh?

 

[AMann]

I have done some lab comparisons between the Mavic-2-Pro, Mavic-2 Zoom and Phantom 4 Pro and have come up with some shocking results.

In my video, I theorize that DJI is doing a "line skipping" and/or "pixel binning" technique that significantly degrades it's image quality in 4k video mode. I have clearly demonstrated this and I and even theorized that this was done and an emergency measure to solve a sensor over-heating problem stemming from a possible design issue of the new Hasselblad 1inch-type sensor camera.

Here are some of the points I discuss in this video:

• Mavic-2 Pro has a 1 inch-type sensor....but does NOT use that full sensor surface area in either "HQ" or FOV mode. (customers are not "truly" using a full 1inch-type sensor in video mode like the Phantom 4 Pro does)
• Mavic-2 Pro "line skips" and/or "pixel binns" as a very crude scaling solution to reduce a potential over-heating problem of this sensor? No other explanation for it aside from marketing cripple trick.
• Mavic-2 Pro does NOT use the full sensor area in "HQ" to again, solve an a possible overheating design flaw on the camera body?
• Mavic-2 Pro's "4K" FOV wide mode has no more real, actual resolution than it's 2.7k recording mode! (demonstrated in stationary, identical scene recordings with zoom-in examination)
• I love the Mavic-2 Pro and I am NOT "trashing" it, but I do feel it has been heavily "crippled".

There is also a full length video on my channel right next to this one.

What do you guys think? I did give DJI 1 week to watch this privately and give me their feedback. There were 76 views all within DJI internally but they declined to comment.

CT

Is the line skipping/pixel bin being used in video mode only? What about HQ stills?

 

[Lon Denard]

Huh?

 

[kraft2000]

Everybody seems to speak just about the resolution loss in FOV mode, and in this case "just use the HQ mode as DJI recommends" . I'm sorry to reiterate, but very few people seem to care about the truly horrendous focal of the HQ mode. This is an equivalent of 45mm, and really not a great focal for aerial video / landscape at all.

And sorry to reiterate, but this is marketed as a 28mm here Mavic 2 - Specifications, FAQs, Videos, Tutorials, Manuals - DJI

It seems they couldn't decide between which mode to offer in 4K so they decided to put 2 half baked mode and let the users choose which compromise they can live with. For me, it will be the 28mm FOV mode, and I'll live with the soft details. For other it will be with the 45mm mode but with details you're expecting from a camera like that.

That obviously piss off the majority of us, and this is not a choice we wanted to make. Are there two 4k modes like that in ANY of the other DJI camera ? heck, any camera at all ...

OK some people are happy with it. But to me it seems obvious there is a fondamental problem with this camera . and DJI hope it will cool down, and nobody will care anymore in a few month.

It seems like a last minute patch for me.

 

[Cliff_622]

I gotta agree with you about being in a narrow 40mm HQ mode. The only reason why I can live with it is bacause I also own the Zoom and P4Pv2.0. So, I'm lucky enough to have options for myself. Lately, Im flying my M2P on construction sites so 40mm video can actually be a benefit with 20mp photos on the side. For me, I could not own the M2P as an "only" drone. The Zoom is a FAR more "well rounded" and versitile tool for a one drone owner.

 

[BlueBay]

Everybody seems to speak just about the resolution loss in FOV mode, and in this case "just use the HQ mode as DJI recommends" . I'm sorry to reiterate, but very few people seem to care about the truly horrendous focal of the HQ mode. This is an equivalent of 45mm, and really not a great focal for aerial video / landscape at all.

And sorry to reiterate, but this is marketed as a 28mm here Mavic 2 - Specifications, FAQs, Videos, Tutorials, Manuals - DJI

It seems they couldn't decide between which mode to offer in 4K so they decided to put 2 half baked mode and let the users choose which compromise they can live with. For me, it will be the 28mm FOV mode, and I'll live with the soft details. For other it will be with the 45mm mode but with details you're expecting from a camera like that.

That obviously piss off the majority of us, and this is not a choice we wanted to make. Are there two 4k modes like that in ANY of the other DJI camera ? heck, any camera at all ...

OK some people are happy with it. But to me it seems obvious there is a fondamental problem with this camera . and DJI hope it will cool down, and nobody will care anymore in a few month.

It seems like a last minute patch for me.

You are correct, a lot of people feel that the 1-inch sensor (in its current form) seems like a gimmick as it's just not being utilised as we expected. It does not produce high-resolution 4k video images. Granted the high dynamic range (colours, contrast, exposure etc.) is good, so are the unquestionably supreme flight & safety dynamics. Plus the form factor is unbeatable.

DJI, PLEASE MAKE FULL USE OF THE 1-INCH SENSOR AS ADVERTISED, NOT A HALF-BAKED MASH-UP.

 

[Vegasrobbi]

It's always amusing to me when someone says that an argument is pointless while they engage in it... It is not "subjective", did they ever say that the M2P compares in video quality to the P4P? No they did not. It is a pointless argument in that you all are wrong! Hahaha!

Dm

Made in Sweden, Hasselblad cameras are renowned for their iconic ergonomic design, uncompromising image quality, and Swedish craftsmanship. Since 1941, Hasselblad cameras have captured some of the world’s most iconic images – including the first moon landing.

Since DJI promotes the M2P with a Hasselblad camera is isn't it reasonable to assume we get uncompromising Hasselblad performance? You admit performance is compromised.

 

[Lon Denard]

Dm

Made in Sweden, Hasselblad cameras are renowned for their iconic ergonomic design, uncompromising image quality, and Swedish craftsmanship. Since 1941, Hasselblad cameras have captured some of the world’s most iconic images – including the first moon landing.

Since DJI promotes the M2P with a Hasselblad camera is isn't it reasonable to assume we get uncompromising Hasselblad performance? You admit performance is compromised.

Hey I like that reply! Nice! Hasselblad is known for uncompromising image quality. DJI isn't.... Wait does Hasselblad mean "uses the entire sensor" in Swedish? That's a good one though. Still doesn't say "P4P QUALITY" though. Can't it be the best they can produce in this form factor? Like I said before, Red has a phone coming out, does everyone expect it to be equal to their full sized cameras? Of course not. However, it should be better than the average phone camera. I submit that the video quality of the M2P is as good or better than any other 1 inch sensor folding drone under $1500. Hahaha!

 

[RoboticTundra]

This is an equivalent of 45mm

Not really. It's an equivalent cropped field of view but is still 28mm perspective/distortion (except the edges are not quite as bad).

 

[Lon Denard]

I gotta agree with you about being in a narrow 40mm HQ mode. The only reason why I can live with it is bacause I also own the Zoom and P4Pv2.0. So, I'm lucky enough to have options for myself. Lately, Im flying my M2P on construction sites so 40mm video can actually be a benefit with 20mp photos on the side. For me, I could not own the M2P as an "only" drone. The Zoom is a FAR more "well rounded" and versitile tool for a one drone owner.

Hey, I thought it was 55?... Honestly, just clarifying.

 

[Category 5]

There is definitely a legitimate concern here regarding the resolving power of the M2P compared to ther Pahntom ar the theoretical reasonable expectation, but I must say the images from the M2P look more professional than those of any other consumer drone I've seen.

I actually bought a P4 Pro 2.0 and was almost sick to my stomach after seeing the amazing color and dynamic range of the M2P. Luckily I was able to return the P4 and get the Mavic, and I happy I did. There may be more fine detail in the imaged from the P4, but it looks like a video camera to me. Something about the way the M2P renders its images looks much more professional, and even more cinematic than the P4.

I was concerned about losing the mechanical shutter and the 60p capability, but the organic and natural look of the M2P images reeled me in.

Also, did anyone consider that the P4 Pro can do a much slower readout without the fear of rolling shutter since it uses a mechanical shutter? This could actually reduce the strain on the sensor and processing while simultaneously providing superior output. Just a thought.

Also, I wouldn't doubt we see some improvement via firmware after the next iteration of the Phantom is released. If the motive is to prevent cannibalization of the Phantom product line then it would no longer be an issue. If the problem is heat control, or even just refinement of the processing algorithm within the limitations of the sensor there are other solutions that could be made. They could even add a super high quality mode at the expense of some flight time.

 

[kraft2000]

Not really. It's an equivalent cropped field of view but is still 28mm perspective/distortion (except the edges are not quite as bad).

It’s actually exactly the definition of a longer focal length in equivalent 35mm on a cropped sensor. The same way you calculate 35mm eq on an apsc sensor or micro 43.

 

[yysc]

Also, did anyone consider that the P4 Pro can do a much slower readout without the fear of rolling shutter since it uses a mechanical shutter? This could actually reduce the strain on the sensor and processing while simultaneously providing superior output. Just a thought.

The mechanical shutter is only used for stills, it plays no role in videos. Good mechanical shutters are typically rated for 150K actuations, at 30fps you'd burn it in 5000 secs = 1h 23min of continuos video.

 

[Category 5]

The mechanical shutter is only used for stills, it plays no role in videos. Good mechanical shutters are typically rated for 150K actuations, at 30fps you'd burn it in 5000 secs = 1h 23min of continuos video.

Good point. I never realized that at all. One more reason not to have remorse after trading from the P4 to the M2.

 

[yysc]

Also, I wouldn't doubt we see some improvement via firmware after the next iteration of the Phantom is released. If the motive is to prevent cannibalization of the Phantom product line then it would no longer be an issue. If the problem is heat control, or even just refinement of the processing algorithm within the limitations of the sensor there are other solutions that could be made. They could even add a super high quality mode at the expense of some flight time.

Whatever SOC they used I'd be very surprised if it really couldn't match the CPU power required to supersample 4K like in the P4P. The P4P uses the older Amba H1, even the $300 Yi 4K+ action cam uses the H2 far superior to the former.

Same for GoPro and their own GP1 in the H6B/H7B. GP1 and H2 can do both sharper 4K60 with very poor passive cooling in the action camera body, whereas the M2P has active cooling for the electronics (a fan) plus the craft is surrounded by 4 very powerful rotors.

I believe 4K FOV in the M2P is the way it is because DJI wanted it to be like this. Whether it will be improved is up to them.

 

[Category 5]

I believe 4K FOV in the M2P is the way it is because DJI wanted it to be like this. Whether it will be improved is up to them.

Certainly possible. One of my first thoughts when i saw Mavic 2 was that the Phantom was obsolete. Hopefully they can bring out then P5, and then offer some amazing firmware upgrade to jumpstart M2 sales again when that happens. Of course, they will probably just release a Mavic 2 Pro 2.0 with the fix baked in, and ask everyone to upgrade. Either way, the M2P produces the most professional looking images I've seen from a consumer drone, so resolution aside, I'm happy. Don't forget that the low light performance makes great use of the sensor as well.

 

[nomnomnom]

Does anyone know in FOV mode, is the camera even an improvement from mavic 1 at all? Can someone please let me know thanks