Mavic Pro-2 vs Zoom and P4P - Line Skipping + Sensor Heat?

[ABLomas]

You're now on /ignore, sar104, FWIW.

Reading this thread i noticed how agressive some ppl defend own opinion - maybe they really do not see a problem, due to monitor/resolution issues and so on?
I suggest doing very simple test on your own mavic 2 pro:

1. take photo (full resolution)
2. resize it to 2704x1520 (with cropping to 16:9, or just longer dimension to 2704 for faster test) using bilinear resampling (most image manipulation programs can do this, DXO, irfanview, <...>)
3. resize (upscale) resulting picture to 3920x2160 (or just keeping longer edge to 3920 if you keep the same aspect ratio)
4. take original photo and do another copy with resize to 3920x2160, using bilinear resampling

Compare #3 and #4 pictures on your screen.
If you do not see difference - good for you, you probably won't see any problems with your mavic, too. No need to waste time with stupid threads like this, just move on with nice videos and stuff.

 

[Cliff_622]

Hey Cliff, when do you anticipate getting that EVO?

Tomorrow!

 

[Lon Denard]

Try this....forget and ignore all the side by side comparisons between M2P, M2Z and P4P. If anybody refutes or does not believe DJI's own admission that they ARE subsampling (a.k.a. pixel binning) and that this tactic DOES in fact have an admitted negative quality impact...if you think FOV is and imaginary problem that DJI is lying about for some bizare reason....

Just do this super simple test. Take your M2P and shoot FOV "4k" and compare it to your very own 2.7k test and try to find a significant difference.....

Thats all. Case closed.

It's not an "admission", dude. It's what they've said from the start. Then add in that the dang manual clearly states that you lose detail between HQ Mode and FOV. You've basically managed to achieve world wide fame by "exposing" what DJI has said all along. Congratulations!!!! You've created this "problem" all by yourself. DJI promised an improvement over the Mavic Pro. Did they deliver, yes or no? If yes THEN "Case Closed". How can DJI prove they are using the full 16/9 portion of the sensor and sub sampling as opposed to line skipping? Which is what you've accused them of originally btw. Now you're on to pixel binning which is slightly "better" I guess. Have you ever produced a camera using an one inch sensor down scaled to 4k? If so, how did you do it?

 

[Lon Denard]

Reading this thread i noticed how agressive some ppl defend own opinion - maybe they really do not see a problem, due to monitor/resolution issues and so on?
I suggest doing very simple test on your own mavic 2 pro:

1. take photo (full resolution)
2. resize it to 2704x1520 (with cropping to 16:9, or just longer dimension to 2704 for faster test) using bilinear resampling (most image manipulation programs can do this, DXO, irfanview, <...>)
3. resize (upscale) resulting picture to 3920x2160 (or just keeping longer edge to 3920 if you keep the same aspect ratio)
4. take original photo and do another copy with resize to 3920x2160, using bilinear resampling

Compare #3 and #4 pictures on your screen.
If you do not see difference - good for you, you probably won't see any problems with your mavic, too. No need to waste time with stupid threads like this, just move on with nice videos and stuff.

That's ASSuming that's what they are doing. NO ONE knows that. That's the main point of all this. You may be right that the quality is only as good as 2.7 video in FOV mode. Okay, let's run with that BUT that doesn't mean that's the way they arrived at the end result. You nor anyone else outside of DJI knows how they do it. Other than they've told us how they do it...you all choose to not believe them and rather trust some guy on YouTube.

The debate is not whether the video from the M2P is as good as the P4P. It isn't.
The debate should be if it's better than the MP.

The debate is not whether FOV mode is inferior to HQ mode, DJI told us that from the start. The debate should be whether it's better in HQ mode than the MP, Evo or Air. I believe that it is.

The debate is not whether the end result is 4k. By every metric it is 3840X2160. According to the published requirements of 4k, that's 4k. It's funny, lots of snobs didn't like the video coming out of the MP either but at least they didn't accuse DJI of upscaling 2.7 and lying about it.

 

[ABLomas]

The debate should be if it's better than the MP.

My post has absolutely nothing about "MP" or something.
Test can be done in 30s and could help filter out those, who scream that "everything is ok, just add little sharpening in post". Stay on topic.

The debate is not whether the end result is 4k. By every metric it is 3840X2160. According to the published requirements of 4k, that's 4k. It's funny, lots of snobs didn't like the video coming out of the MP either but at least they didn't accuse DJI of upscaling 2.7 and lying about it.

Both pictures in my example end at 4K resolution. By every metric they are 3840X2160 (or 4K).
Based on your posts (i read entire thread and sometimes your useless, off-topic and "i-have-no-idea-what-is-this" posts take entire page, so this is my first and last reply to your posts), you probably won't get this example, but who cares? =)

P.S. images in my example will end a bit better than M2P video, actually FOV vs HQ (vs for example Xiaomi Yi 4K+) it's even worse, but for filtering "it is good enough for me?" should be good enough.

 

[yysc]

My post has absolutely nothing about "MP" or something.
Test can be done in 30s and could help filter out those, who scream that "everything is ok, just add little sharpening in post". Stay on topic.

Both pictures in my example end at 4K resolution. By every metric they are 3840X2160 (or 4K).
Based on your posts (i read entire thread and sometimes your useless, off-topic and "i-have-no-idea-what-is-this" posts take entire page, so this is my first and last reply to your posts), you probably won't get this example, but who cares? =)

P.S. images in my example will end a bit better than M2P video, actually FOV vs HQ (vs for example Xiaomi Yi 4K+) it's even worse, but for filtering "it is good enough for me?" should be good enough.

I've noticed he had been lately crusading for DJI across critic YouTube videos, in the comments section, so he has been absent for a couple of days. I see the peace is now over.

There are noticiable IQ issues in 4K FOV like the weird artifacting shown in message #553
Mavic Pro-2 vs Zoom and P4P - Line Skipping + Sensor Heat?
and yes, I can see those in motion with linear patterns without magnifying the video. Of couse he conviniently chooses to ignore these.

At the end of the day, he just seems a huge loyal fan of DJI unable to critic the brand/product he worships. Everyone has the right to be the way they want to be, but obviously we're never going to have a neutral/critic/meaningful discussion with people like this.

I like DJI stuff too but that doesn't prevent me from criticing the product flaws. And if there was a better foldable 1" inch camera drone I'd buy it in a heatbeat, but there isn't for now.

 

[ego_slapper]

Cliff, thank you for your unbiased work on the YouTube video. This topic has been beat down but I would like to state that it has helped me make an informed decision. I've been viewing footage online from the M2P since they've been available and although it definitely beats my MP1, some things just seemed off to me like the softness and barrel distortion. I've owned the MP1 for a year now. Love it but wanted to get better IQ. I purchased the M2P from B&H a day after DJI's price increases but for the original price. Thankfully, they were closed for a Jewish holiday for 10 days so I had time to do more research and decided to cancel my order. Despite the larger size, I will now be purchasing the P4P V2, although I do not rule out the M2P in the future if fw updates somehow fix the issues.

I want to stick to a 1" type sensor for my next drone but I'm curious about the EVO.

Keep up the objective videos. A lot of people appreciate it.

 

[Cliff_622]

Lon Denard - Are you happy with FOV mode image quality? If so, than why do you even care that others aren't? Our dissatisfaction with it should have zero affect on your satisfaction with it.

Look man, I'll say this again. I have had Spark owners tell me that their image is awesome and that it has all the quality they will ever need. That's great for them but not for me. But I will never knock a Spark owner if they think it's awesome.

To a Spark owner....is a Mavic owner a "snob"? To a Mavic owner....is a Phantom 4 Pro owner a "snob"? To a Phantom owner...is an Inspire X7 owner a "snob"? No!

Lon,...be happy with what you want to be happy with. I dont see why this all bothers you. I said DJI was either line skipping or pixel binning. I explain and diagram what the two are because many people dont know. I show image examples of what DJI admits they are doing and what it looks like. Lastly, I theorize the reasons that could cause DJI to do this. I was completely fair. I'm keeping both of my Mavic-2's. I'm NOT telling anybody to dump theirs or NOT to order it. I have been VERY fair to DJI and I have asked for more people to test for themselves and get more results out there.

This was not about "me" at all. I never thought this video was going to take off like it did. If I knew beforehand, I would have fixed my crappy audio and polished my overall edit. Lol!!

What's the problem?

 

[Lon Denard]

Lon Denard - Are you happy with FOV mode image quality? If so, than why do you even care that others aren't? Our dissatisfaction with it should have zero affect on your satisfaction with it.

Look man, I'll say this again. I have had Spark owners tell me that their image is awesome and that it has all the quality they will ever need. That's great for them but not for me. But I will never knock a Spark owner if they think it's awesome.

To a Spark owner....is a Mavic owner a "snob"? To a Mavic owner....is a Phantom 4 Pro owner a "snob"? To a Phantom owner...is an Inspire X7 owner a "snob"? No!

Lon,...be happy with what you want to be happy with. I dont see why this all bothers you. I said DJI was either line skipping or pixel binning. I explain and diagram what the two are because many people dont know. I show image examples of what DJI admits they are doing and what it looks like. Lastly, I theorize the reasons that could cause DJI to do this. I was completely fair. I'm keeping both of my Mavic-2's. I'm NOT telling anybody to dump theirs or NOT to order it. I have been VERY fair to DJI and I have asked for more people to test for themselves and get more results out there.

This was not about "me" at all. I never thought this video was going to take off like it did. If I knew beforehand, I would have fixed my crappy audio and polished my overall edit. Lol!!

What's the problem?

"Problem"? There's no problem. I just have time on my hands between jobs and while editing. The main reason I've taken this stance is that it's against the stream. The only part that I take issue with at all is the notion that DJI told us that the M2P would have the same or better image quality compared to the P4P. The "DJI lied to us!" position. The image quality is a non issue for me. The recent posters see that but don't actually SEE that. My entire argument revolves around whether DJI hyped the camera as better or as good as the P4P or if it were YouTube reviewers. Considering the fact that DJI never released any information on the drone prior to launch and that they never make that comparison during the actual launch, tells someone who is truly unbiased that they didn't.

I've said several times that I have no idea what the image quality is in FOV because I always film in HQ. You know, just like DJI suggested... I mean they did tell us up front that the image quality is better in HQ mode, right?

They told us up front that they use "sub sampling" on the M2P in FOV as opposed to "super sampling" on the P4P, right?

In the end the result is "4k" right?

Besides, to use the "entire sensor" during video, wouldn't every frame have to be 5100x4000 pixels? You know like it does taking pictures? Yes I know I'm being silly but seriously 4k is only 8mp so in HQ mode the drone is using approximately 14mp... Yay? No? Why not? The Zoom, Evo, Air, etc only have 12mp total...Isn't that an improvement? If not, why not?

The last resort is always to label anyone that sticks up for DJI as a fan boy or "worshipper" which is funny because I currently own a dozen drones (and have owned quite a few more) and this is only my second DJI product.

I have no love for DJI or hate either...which is what I see from many of you. I don't care what drone you all buy. Heck, I encouraged anyone with any doubt to not purchase the M2P or if this bothers you to send it back! I actually had the EVO on order when the M2P was announced and went this way instead. I've been happy with my MP, minus the video quality and was looking for an upgrade. This definitely is an upgrade in my opinion. DJI shouldn't be expected to compete with their other drone line ups, what an idiotic marketing strategy that would be! Both versions of the Mavic 2 beat the Evo, in my opinion and potentially the Yuneec Typhoon H Pro/Plus but who knows? I saw that drone at Best Buy the other day and almost purchased it to check it out but remembered my less than satisfactory experiences with the Q500 and the Typhoon H.

As far as battling it out on YouTube goes...that's just entertaining in my opinion. I do enjoy calling out the channels that hyped up the drone and now because of one video are bashing it! In my opinion, most are doing it just for clicks and to jump on the band wagon. Just a quick glance at a couple of these channel's metrics shows that they've never had more views. That means money, right?

Seriously, if you guys want to argue, I'll argue. But I'm not arguing whether or not the M2P has the same image quality as the P4P. I never thought that it would. I thought that it would be better than the MP and it is.

 

[Cliff_622]

I would have to agree with you about DJI marketing. They didn't make any claims that I would call "untrue". I think they were basically up-front about FOV and HQ limitations. I think them putting a "Hasselblad" label sent us all into expectation overdrive! We immediately were expecting a P4P in a Mavic body. This was US doing this to OURSELVES...not DJI doing this. We set the bar super high and DJI was not about to jump over it and smash their new P4PV2.0 and future P5 to Hell. Y'know...I really do want to know what this technical "compromise" was that DJI was fighting.

 

[Bobnecat]

@Lon Denard It still amazes me how incompetent yet vocal you are! you don't even understand half of the things people argue about in here yet you rush to shut their mouths.

That's ASSuming that's what they are doing. NO ONE knows that. That's the main point of all this. You may be right that the quality is only as good as 2.7 video in FOV mode. Okay, let's run with that BUT that doesn't mean that's the way they arrived at the end result. You nor anyone else outside of DJI knows how they do it. Other than they've told us how they do it...you all choose to not believe them and rather trust some guy on YouTube.

If you did not get it, I will be kind enough to explain @ABLomas post to you! He is telling you to check your monitor (and your vision), and if after those manipulations both photos look good to you, you are totally fine for what you have and you probably don't need more. But that does not mean there is no one else who has a little more competency.

The debate is not whether the video from the M2P is as good as the P4P. It isn't.
The debate should be if it's better than the MP.
The debate is not whether FOV mode is inferior to HQ mode, DJI told us that from the start.

No! Nope! - There is no debate - those drones are used as benchmark, to compare what we get vs what we should get, considering price-points and technology of each.
and Nope! - They never told us that, and they never told us we would get half of 4k quality in FOV.

The debate should be whether it's better in HQ mode than the MP, Evo or Air.

No - you are wrong! You can't compare apples to pears. You can't compare IQ at different fields of views, so you have to find the optimal spot for comparison, which is those cameras at their default wide FOV.

The debate is not whether the end result is 4k. By every metric it is 3840X2160. According to the published requirements of 4k, that's 4k. It's funny, lots of snobs didn't like the video coming out of the MP either but at least they didn't accuse DJI of upscaling 2.7 and lying about it.

You do not have a clear understanding of what 4k resolution vs 4k image size is. You can upscale 360p to 4k, but it will not make it a 4k video. Google may help you to get it.

I've said several times that I have no idea what the image quality is in FOV because I always film in HQ. You know, just like DJI suggested...

If FOV is not of your concern, then why flood this thread with endless useless comments?
Here you go: M2P - It is truly the "big picture"
You are welcome!

I mean they did tell us up front that the image quality is better in HQ mode, right?

They told us up front that they use "sub sampling" on the M2P in FOV as opposed to "super sampling" on the P4P, right?

In the end the result is "4k" right?

No
No
and No!

"Problem"? There's no problem. I just have time on my hands between jobs and while editing.

Editing!? Editing what?? I have seen some of your latest videos on your youtube channel and they look like **** to me (I apologize for being so straightforward). There is not even any edits on those, not even cut scenes in most of them, not even talking about any idea of Color Grading. There is no post-processing in your videos whatsoever! Some of shots are not even in focus! That right there told me how much of pro you are in what you are claiming to be here with all your defense.
If you are using your drones as toys and you don't expect anything more from them, that's fine, but don't come here and attack any point that is not even in scope of your competency. If I take a vacation and fly United or Delta, that does not automatically make me a piloting expert so I join some professional pilots organization and start teaching them stuff. Of course I can still do that, but I don't think anyone in that club would appreciate or benefit from it.

You may continue to claim that I have registered here just to counter-argue your view points. I will tell you up front (funny, just used one of your favorites.), i'm not here to do that! i'm here to read and appreciate the works of others, but I just can't stand your destructive nature in this thread, thus took time to respond to some of your false and incompetent claims. I know, by the time reading this part of this message you have probably melted your chair, but I can assure you, this will be the last time I am addressing you. And so I would also advise anyone else to ignore your comments in this thread, for it to turn back to its original subject matter.

 

[yysc]

I would have to agree with you about DJI marketing. They didn't make any claims that I would call "untrue". I think they were basically up-front about FOV and HQ limitations. I think them putting a "Hasselblad" label sent us all into expectation overdrive! We immediately were expecting a P4P in a Mavic body. This was US doing this to OURSELVES...not DJI doing this. We set the bar super high and DJI was not about to jump over it and smash their new P4PV2.0 and future P5 to ****. Y'know...I really do want to know what this technical "compromise" was that DJI was fighting.

I'd say even if the P4P wouldn't exist we would still highlight the issues of M2P in 4K FOV as it would be compared against M2Z, Parrot Anafi, Autel EVO, etc. and would lose against them all in terms of 4K FOV clarity. It is simply 4K FOV is not good enough and there are legit issues with it.

The comparision with the P4P is simply natural as it has the closest camera specs, it's also a consumer drone, has a similar price, and it's two years older!

 

[Lon Denard]

I would have to agree with you about DJI marketing. They didn't make any claims that I would call "untrue". I think they were basically up-front about FOV and HQ limitations. I think them putting a "Hasselblad" label sent us all into expectation overdrive! We immediately were expecting a P4P in a Mavic body. This was US doing this to OURSELVES...not DJI doing this. We set the bar super high and DJI was not about to jump over it and smash their new P4PV2.0 and future P5 to ****. Y'know...I really do want to know what this technical "compromise" was that DJI was fighting.

Hey Cliff, for real, start a new thread and let's see if we all can have a discussion about that. That's interesting. I'm also wondering if it's even possible in, everyone's opinion, to use an entire 21MP sensor to produce a 4k image in a camera of that size? Someone was dreaming of a GoPro with a one inch sensor the other day and I wondered then, how would that work? I mean if everyone thinks it's so "easy" what hasn't anyone done it, you know? Then I think about my Osmo and what it does with a relatively small form factor. Not to mention, again, the P4P and what it accomplishes in that size.


Hmmm... Maybe DJI will drop the M2P full sensor bomb after the P5P is released...Hahaha!

 

[yysc]

And for those who say DJI never said "the M2P would be a foldable P4P", just remember the Mavic Air case.

The Mavic Air had a superior IQ to the original Mavic Pro, despite being a cheaper drone, and for everybody this was fine and natural evolution as it was a much newer drone.

So we were actually expecting something better than the P4P being a much newer drone (the M2P), just to find the opposite hence the general frustration.

 

[Anndybo]

So we were actually expecting something better than the P4P being a much newer drone (the M2P), just to find the opposite hence the general frustration.

better than P4P? Why? It should be better than M1 and it is! P5 will be better than P4P for sure. Don't forget these are consumer drones. Some people use them in some pro applications. But if you really expecting Pro IQ - switch to Inspire. This is how DJI separate them.

 

[yysc]

better than P4P? Why? It should be better than M1 and it is! P5 will be better than P4P for sure. Don't forget these are consumer drones. Some people use them in some pro applications. But if you really expecting Pro IQ - switch to Inspire. This is how DJI separate them.

MA had better IQ than M1P and it was a segment below. M1P had similar IQ than P4, see below:

DJI Mavic Pro VS Phantom 4 video quality Comparison 4K - Helipal com

I'd settle for -at least- similar IQ between M2P and P4P. And of course if a future P5 surpasses M2P/P4P then no reason to complain. Note this is for video. In photo M2P is similar to P4P. Why not in video?

 

[Anndybo]

MA had better IQ than M1P and it was a segment below. M1P had similar IQ than P4, see below:

DJI Mavic Pro VS Phantom 4 video quality Comparison 4K - Helipal com

I'd settle for -at least- similar IQ between M2P and P4P. And of course if a future P5 surpasses M2P/P4P then no reason to complain. Note this is for video. In photo M2P is similar to P4P. Why not in video?

I suspect two things, hardware/size limitation or DJI doesn't want to kill P4P yet.
We have to wait until P5 will be announced. Still think M2P is best consumer drone right now. (when counting all features)
I used to have MAir - was great but range limitation/video transmission and noise level were not acceptable. Also
in low light condition M2P is winner.

 

[Lon Denard]

I suspect two things, hardware/size limitation or DJI doesn't want to kill P4P yet.
We have to wait until P5 will be announced. Still think M2P is best consumer drone right now. (when counting all features)
I used to have MAir - was great but range limitation/video transmission and noise level were not acceptable. Also
in low light condition M2P is winner.

Stop being so dang positive buddy! Hahaha!

 

[Lon Denard]

I've noticed he had been lately crusading for DJI across critic YouTube videos, in the comments section, so he has been absent for a couple of days. I see the peace is now over.

There are noticiable IQ issues in 4K FOV like the weird artifacting shown in message #553
Mavic Pro-2 vs Zoom and P4P - Line Skipping + Sensor Heat?
and yes, I can see those in motion with linear patterns without magnifying the video. Of couse he conviniently chooses to ignore these.

At the end of the day, he just seems a huge loyal fan of DJI unable to critic the brand/product he worships. Everyone has the right to be the way they want to be, but obviously we're never going to have a neutral/critic/meaningful discussion with people like this.

I like DJI stuff too but that doesn't prevent me from criticing the product flaws. And if there was a better foldable 1" inch camera drone I'd buy it in a heatbeat, but there isn't for now.

Oh this drone had flaws for sure! The gimbal motors give up WAY too easily when flying into the wind. It causes the camera to drop and the obstacle avoidance to turn off. That never happened with the "flimsy" Mavic Pro gimbal. I wonder if the Zoom does that too, hmmm? I don't like the way the filters remove. Way too fiddly! I don't like that there's no Official Crystalsky mount. I managed to get around that but Yeesh! I don't like how the led light switch cycles thru on, off and auto. Auto should be a separate setting and the switch should be on and off. I don't like that the 160 watt Phantom charger I bought for my Mavic Pro doesn't work with the new charger! Grrr... I wish there was D Cinelike. I wish the drone was an 1/2 higher off the ground and/or it had folding landing gear like my Karma does. Oh and I'm tired of calibrating my compass every few flights! I HATE how long it takes my Crystalsky(s) to boot up! I hate how complicated the file and menu systems are on the Crystalsky monitors. I dislike the new sd card location and slot. Much harder to use than the Mavic Pro. I wish the USB TYPE C port was faster downloading video so I could throw 128g in there and be done with it. I wished they would have used the 1.7 sensor like I told them to! All this could have been avoided.

 

[dwallersv]

My entire argument revolves around whether DJI hyped the camera as better or as good as the P4P or if it were YouTube reviewers. Considering the fact that DJI never released any information on the drone prior to launch and that they never make that comparison during the actual launch, tells someone who is truly unbiased that they didn't.

Well, as "hyped the camera as better or as good as the P4P" is inherently subjective, it's a pointless argument to have.

Also, in my lengthening years on this mortal coil I've come to find those who believe there is anything such as "truly unbiased" have a lot to learn.