Mavic pro showing up on Flight Radar 24....weird?>

laurens23 · Sep 25, 2018

there are a lot of DJI donres with N numbers (and assigned transponder codes)

In this case I think what happenes is that someone snagged N12345 for their drone and got an transponder code attached as per FAA registration site. However I do not believe the drone actually has a transponder attached, but instead some people are using the transponder code for N12345 as a dummy, for testing or by mistake. Because N12345 is registered as a drone, these dummy flights with real aircraft are showing up as being flown by this drone.

ac0j · Sep 25, 2018

What good is an N number if anyone can put any code on a transponder? LOL!
Sounds like the FAA is on the ball. "lets make it easy for criminals to hide in plain sight" Makes sense.

Since N12345 is the FAA;s favorite "hypothetical" N number for their documentation and training, I am surprised that they would actually issue it.

mrreddog · Sep 25, 2018

Interesting for sure....

laurens23 · Sep 26, 2018

ac0j said:
What good is an N number if anyone can put any code on a transponder? LOL!

there are 2 codes for a transponder. we are talking about the Mode S address,

Mode S address: This is set up by the mechanic during installation of the transponder. It links the physical transponder to the aircraft registration. There is an algorithm that converts the N number to the Mode S address.

Changing this is not trivial, but it can be changed/reset by anyone who is willing to read the installation manual for the specific transponder. (usually it requires power-cycling the transponder and pressing some buttons to get into a setup menu, something that is not practical/possible in the air)

A mechanic could set this to N12345 to conduct some tests or when there is no N number for the plane, or when he makes a mistake, etc.

Transponder code (squawk code): This is a four digit number set by the pilot. Air Traffic Control (ATC) can/will ask the pilot to set this to a specific number for identification. This number can change dusting the flight, for example when changing to a new control area ATC might give a new squawk code. There are also some special numbers for emergency, lost radio, or hijacking. This will help identification by the ATC controller.

ATC does not want to use the Mode S address because this would clutter the system. For example all uncontrolled general aviation will use the same transponder code (7700), but they all have a unique Mode S address.

gnirtS · Sep 26, 2018

Remember ADSB is inherently insecure and anyone with a hackRF and RaPi can feed whatever data (hex code, registration, altitude, speed etc) they want into it and it'll be shown as genuine.
You can put whatever aircraft you want anywhere in the world - there is no error or data verification in ADSB.

That said, the reg number is more likely a place holder for "None" or "Invalid" than anything else. My guess is its a normal a/c with an obscured or badly entered tail number.

Commercial drones CAN have various ADS-B or transponders and legit registration numbers and radarbox shows several of these. All the N numbers have been deregistered 10 years or longer so probably getting recycled.

SpyderSkeets · Sep 26, 2018

I'd be surprised if a Mavic can even carry a Mode-S transponder, unless there is a tiny, super-duper light one that's available.

Sprocket · Sep 26, 2018

Maybe dumb questions, but why did they get an n number and how did they do it?
Btw: If you search for just DJI the results will show a whole lot more n numbers on DJI drones.

MGrosvold · Sep 26, 2018

gnirtS said:
Remember ADSB is inherently insecure and anyone with a hackRF and RaPi can feed whatever data (hex code, registration, altitude, speed etc) they want into it and it'll be shown as genuine.

I'm inclined to believe this has to be the explanation. Obviously, the screen shot shows the path of an aircraft remaining in the pattern as the pilot performs touch and goes. Apparently the actual aircraft identification data has been altered to make it appear as though it were an Mavic.

sar104 · Sep 26, 2018

Sprocket said:
Maybe dumb questions, but why did they get an n number and how did they do it?
Btw: If you search for just DJI the results will show a whole lot more n numbers on DJI drones.

Aircraft Registration Application

sar104 · Sep 26, 2018

MGrosvold said:
I'm inclined to believe this has to be the explanation. Obviously, the screen shot shows the path of an aircraft remaining in the pattern as the pilot performs touch and goes. Apparently the actual aircraft identification data has been altered to make it appear as though it were an Mavic.

More specifically, the transponder data have been altered to be associated with the tail number N12345, which is registered to a Mavic.

conchman · Sep 26, 2018

I don't men to hijack the thread, but would helicopters show up on this app, who do short local excursions, in the Dominican Republic? I just downloaded the app and fixed wing aircraft show up. Where I fly my drone, sometimes the helicopter tours are in the area, it would be great if I could use this app to see where the heli's are.

gnirtS · Sep 26, 2018

conchman said:
I don't men to hijack the thread, but would helicopters show up on this app, who do short local excursions, in the Dominican Republic? I just downloaded the app and fixed wing aircraft show up. Where I fly my drone, sometimes the helicopter tours are in the area, it would be great if I could use this app to see where the heli's are.

Usually no. ADS-B isnt that useful for drone flying. Generally larger commercial aircraft are fitted.
The type of traffic likely to come into conflict with a drone (low altitude helicopters, GA, military) tend not to be fitted or broadcast it. That and FR24 actively filter out military and other planes that do send it.

So no, its not a safe guideline at all for it.

gnirtS · Sep 26, 2018

sar104 said:
More specifically, the transponder data have been altered to be associated with the tail number N12345, which is registered to a Mavic.

Actually Mode S/ADS-B is just a unique hex code. All other things such as registration are just done via a lookup table and a database which can obviously contain errors.

N12345 is not registered to a mavic. Its not registered to anything. Its used as an example in training programmes and other things.

sar104 · Sep 26, 2018

gnirtS said:
Actually Mode S/ADS-B is just a unique hex code. All other things such as registration are just done via a lookup table and a database which can obviously contain errors.

N12345 is not registered to a mavic. Its not registered to anything. Its used as an example in training programmes and other things.

It certainly appears to me to be registered to a Mavic, at least according to the FAA registry.

FAA Registry - Aircraft - N-Number Inquiry

sar104 · Sep 26, 2018

gnirtS said:
Actually Mode S/ADS-B is just a unique hex code. All other things such as registration are just done via a lookup table and a database which can obviously contain errors.

N12345 is not registered to a mavic. Its not registered to anything. Its used as an example in training programmes and other things.

Regarding the data in the transponder, that's why I wrote "associated with the tail number". You are looking at ADS-B tracking data from transponders that have been associated with N12345 - often incorrectly, obviously, whether deliberately or otherwise, since N12345 is a Mavic according to FAA records.

Zyskman78 · Sep 26, 2018

I’m on flight radar everyday and have not seen that. That’s really strange. A bit ominous too!

DanMan32 · Sep 26, 2018

Reminds me of the urban legends of those having vanity plates 'no plate' or 'none' and getting tickets because the real violators didn't have plates on their vehicles at that time.

mrreddog · Sep 26, 2018

conchman said:
I don't men to hijack the thread, but would helicopters show up on this app, who do short local excursions, in the Dominican Republic? I just downloaded the app and fixed wing aircraft show up. Where I fly my drone, sometimes the helicopter tours are in the area, it would be great if I could use this app to see where the heli's are.

I see helicopters all the time, mostly news chopper doing traffic at 8am and 5pm, also see state trooper choppers. occasionally I do see those very small privately owned choppers too. but I believe transponder are not required on all aircraft, not real sure though.