MM1 How much would a steady15mph sustained wind hold back the MM1

[FlyBackOU812]

You have identified why I sold my Mini 1. Your question is put in a biased way. You start by saying the mini's max speed but not that it has to be in Sports mode to achieve it. Usually we take off in Normal positioning mode and you will find that 15 mph on the ground usually equals something very different 30' up. This is why the discussion groups were filled with "my Mini flew away" topics during its first year. Better have your emergency procedure well rehearsed!

I most definitely did state "In sport mode". For me... I almost always start off and fly in sport mode, like 99.9% of the time. Only time im not in sport mode is if I'm in high wind situations or I'm filming something worthwhile that I may share with others,, which isnt very often as a hobbyist pilot and I have roughly 2000 flight hours with MP1, MPP and MM1

 

[Meta4]

As far as your answer, NOT TRUE. Its not as simple as you suggest it is, hence the heated post.. your answer... Not true. Your arithmetic adds up just fine, its the equation that you're using that is wrong. With your equation that would mean the wind would react the same to every object. If that were true aerodynamics wouldn't be thing... ?

Whichever Facebook physicist is advising you is wrong.
The "equation" you are thinking of comes into the top speed of the drone through still air.
That equation has been worked out and the Mini can stretch to 29 mph through still air.

To understand the interaction of the drone and a headwind, think about those moving walkways you see at airports.
Imagine one that moves at 3 mph.
You stand still on it and you move across the space at 6 mph.
If you can walk at 3 mph on a regular floor and try walking against the flow of the walkway.
You walk at 3 mph but the path you walk on is moving at 3 mph in the opposite direction.
You go neither backwards or forwards.
There's no equation to consider.

A drone flying in a body of air that's moving in an opposite direction is the same.
Wind resistance does not enter into it at all as it is already accounted for in the speed quoted in the specs.
Regardless of what your Facebook friends heatedly decided, the speed for your scenario is 19 or 14 mph depending on whatever wind speed you really meant.

 

[FlyBackOU812]

Look at the choices you gave.
None are less than the drone's top speed !!

?You are absolutely correct and I will change that immediately. But in my defense I also Fly MP so when I was coming up with the different answers I was thinking about my MP speeds and I realize that now that you've stated it but also in my defense, I already knew the correct answer which is "I don't know?" cuz there is no way of knowing without being able to test it in a very long wind tunnel under exact and controlled conditions. But yes that was a vital mistake on my part because most are gonna want choose the wrong answer of 20mph so they will either be confused or move on without responding. Thank you for pointing that out to me sir

 

[FlyBackOU812]

Whichever Facebook physicist is advising you is wrong.
The "equation" you are thinking of comes into the top speed of the drone through still air.
That equation has been worked out and the Mini can stretch to 29 mph through still air.

To understand the interaction of the drone and a headwind, think about those moving walkways you see at airports.
Imagine one that moves at 3 mph.
You stand still on it and you move across the space at 6 mph.
If you can walk at 3 mph on a regular floor and try walking against the flow of the walkway.
You walk at 3 mph but the path you walk on is moving at 3 mph in the opposite direction.
You go neither backwards or forwards.
There's no equation to consider.

A drone flying in a body of air that's moving in an opposite direction is the same.
Wind resistance does not enter into it at all as it is already accounted for in the speed quoted in the specs.
Regardless of what your Facebook friends heatedly decided, the speed for your scenario is 19 or 14 mph depending on whatever wind speed you really meant.

Thank you for your great explanation and something I didn't consider myself, BUTTT.... Your answer is still wrong lol. There is no way of knowing the correct answer to this question. What you and 100% of everyone else besides myself so far fails to factor in is aerodynamics of the drone. Using your theory the wind will have the same force against every object and every aircraft, which isn't true. The force wind has on any object is greatly determined by its aerodynamics and ability to cut through the wind so its all depends on an objects surface area and possibly even the potential gas and temp that could be trapped inside by its outer shell. That last part "gas and its inside temp" is only a theory of mine and is my newest question and why I said "possibly" that part is something I'm not sure of but seems could effect it but not at all prudent to drone
But please don't edit or delete your comment because you were wrong. No point in anyone being ashamed for not thinking about that aspect because 99.9% of everyone is getting this wrong and with people reading these comments need to know that everyone gets this wrong. I'm not the smartest person by a LONG SHOT!! But it is something I took into consideration on first thought. Not sure why noone else does ?‍

 

[Meta4]

Thank you for your great explanation and something I didn't consider myself, BUTTT.... Your answer is still wrong lol. There is no way of knowing the correct answer to this question. What you and 100% of everyone else besides myself so far fails to factor in is aerodynamics of the drone. Using your theory the wind will have the same force against every object and every aircraft, which isn't true. The force wind has on any object is greatly determined by its aerodynamics and ability to cut through the wind so its all depends on an objects surface area and possibly even the potential gas and temp that could be trapped inside by its outer shell. That last part "gas and its inside temp" is only a theory of mine and is my newest question and why I said "possibly" that part is something I'm not sure of but seems could effect it but not at all prudent to drone

You and your facebook physics are still wrong and working far past your understanding.

 

[RC_Adik]

An just why are we wasting our time on this thread? The wind is blowing, lets get going!

 

[Meta4]

I'm disappointed in your reply. I guess I expected more from you on this subject because its something that ive never seen discussed and important for pilots to understand if they are determining whether or not they should fly on account of an app based wind speed and what it means. Thanks for your reply but I'd much rather know your answer to the question and how you came up with it. Means a lot to me and to the pilots that read this that have some influence on other pilots as you do.

And if you think your imaginary calculations make any difference to drone flyers, you are kidding yourself even more.
Stick to things you have some understanding of.

 

[Rich QR]

The drone has two things potentially limiting its speed.

1. Raw aerodynamics along with available power
2. Software, combined with GPS input.

If it were just the first issue, then it would be simple: the drone has a max speed through the air, and smooth air carries everything, including the moving drone, along at a fixed windspeed. Just add the wind vector to the vector describing the drone's velocity through the air.

But the software can make it more complicated.

Consider that with your hands off the sticks, the drone hovers in still air. Add a 5mph steady wind, and the drone still hovers at 0mph ground speed! It maintains that 0mph ground speed up to its limit.

When the stick is pushed just a little bit in any direction, the drone moves with a small ground speed, regardless of wind speed (until the wind is just too strong).

It's clearly not being simply carried by the wind at low wind speeds and small stick movements. The software attempts to let us ignore the wind and pretend we're flying in still air. But it can't maintain that illusion forever. With high enough wind speeds, the drone gets blown downwind, regardless of the software.

The original question could be answered if we knew exactly how hard the software attempted to maintain the illusion that we're flying through still air, and how it behaved as it approached conditions where the illusion couldn't be maintained.

I don't have the source code. I don't know the answer.

 

[RogerDH]

Thank you for your great explanation and something I didn't consider myself, BUTTT.... Your answer is still wrong lol. There is no way of knowing the correct answer to this question. What you and 100% of everyone else besides myself so far fails to factor in is aerodynamics of the drone. Using your theory the wind will have the same force against every object and every aircraft, which isn't true. The force wind has on any object is greatly determined by its aerodynamics and ability to cut through the wind so its all depends on an objects surface area and possibly even the potential gas and temp that could be trapped inside by its outer shell. That last part "gas and its inside temp" is only a theory of mine and is my newest question and why I said "possibly" that part is something I'm not sure of but seems could effect it but not at all prudent to drone
But please don't edit or delete your comment because you were wrong. No point in anyone being ashamed for not thinking about that aspect because 99.9% of everyone is getting this wrong and with people reading these comments need to know that everyone gets this wrong. I'm not the smartest person by a LONG SHOT!! But it is something I took into consideration on first thought. Not sure why noone else does ?‍

No, what you're getting wrong is that the aerodynamics are already taken into account by being one of the two factors -- drag and thrust -- that determine the maximum airspeed. The maximum airspeed is the maximum airspeed, regardless of any wind. Flying into a 10 MPH headwind, the ground speed will be 10 MPH less than the maximum airspeed, because "10 MPH headwind" just means the air that the drone is flying through is moving 10 MPH relative to the ground.

 

[FlyBackOU812]

An just why are we wasting our time on this thread? The wind is blowing, lets get going!

You sir may leave anytime you want. If your input isn't helpful for the post then CYA!! You act as if you are forced to be involved

 

[FlyBackOU812]

No, what you're getting wrong is that the aerodynamics are already taken into account by being one of the two factors -- drag and thrust -- that determine the maximum airspeed. The maximum airspeed is the maximum airspeed, regardless of any wind. Flying into a 10 MPH headwind, the ground speed will be 10 MPH less than the maximum airspeed, because "10 MPH headwind" just means the air that the drone is flying through is moving 10 MPH relative to the ground.

I'm trying very hard to comprehend this. So let's not determine there's a max speed set by the ESC, let's just say its the max speed the motors are capable of which is the case once any significant wind is involved. Does that change anything in your figures? You seem to have more knowledge on this subject than anyone else I've spoken to so to me at this point, your knowledge is vital to me. At least for the moment if you are correct. I will definitely look further into your theory or knowledge. I never take any one person's word on any matter so if you are correct please don't fault me questioning you. Its just an instinctive trait not to trust anyone one person's word on a matter at least someone I don't know but I can admit it does sound like you might know what you're talking about and knowledgeable so if you are correct then THANK YOU SO MUCH for your comment.

 

[FlyBackOU812]

I'm trying very hard to comprehend this. So let's not determine there's a max speed set by the ESC, let's just say its the max speed the motors are capable of which is the case once any significant wind is involved. Does that change anything in your figures? You seem to have more knowledge on this subject than anyone else I've spoken to so to me at this point, your knowledge is vital to me. At least for the moment if you are correct. I will definitely look further into your theory or knowledge. I never take any one person's word on any matter so if you are correct please don't fault me questioning you. Its just an instinctive trait not to trust anyone one person's word on a matter at least someone I don't know but I can admit it does sound like you might know what you're talking about and knowledgeable so if you are correct then THANK YOU SO MUCH for your comment.

My thinking is/was this... lets say you put a radar gun in position that could capture this,, so hypothetically speaking here.. which I'm pretty sure and assuming measures ground speed, so using that radar gun and firing a long thin very pointy armor piercing bullet thats would, in no wind would be coming out of the barrel at lets say 4,000FPS into a headwind of 4,000FPS. Would that bullet stop in its tracks at the end of the barrel and drop to the ground? I would find that very hard to believe if so. Better yet... lets say its fired into a 3,000fps headwind would that mean the bullet would immediately upon leaving the barrel slow to 1,000fps? Because what I do understand about all this is that if you fired a slug round with the same bullet weight but a third of the first bullets length but fatter with 100 times bigger face point as the armor piercing bullet. I know for sure that wind would slow down the slug far more and far faster than the first bullet simply because of the surface area and drag that the wind puts on the 2 bullets face points. This was my whole reasoning behind my assumption.

 

[Meta4]

I'm trying very hard to comprehend this.

But not succeeding.
You are making it more complicated than it is.

You seem to have more knowledge on this subject than anyone else I've spoken to so

And he said exactly the same thing I did and post #29 too.

 

[Zbip57]

This is beginning to look a lot like the infamous thread about whether it's more efficient to fly directly upwind or better to tack upwind. ?

 

[Meta4]

I already knew the correct answer which is "I don't know?"

You got that correct ... you don't know and you don't know enough to understand the correct answer when it's explained to you.
Yet you think you can tell others they are wrong ??

 

[Zbip57]

I know for sure that wind would slow down the slug far more and far faster than the first bullet simply because of the surface area and drag...

Yes, aerodynamics and atmospheric conditions have an effect on drag thereby affecting max airspeed. The available propulsive power will also affect max airspeed. But you're comparing apples and oranges. A DJI Inspire is sleeker and more powerful than a Mavic Mini. Hence the Inspire (armour piercing) can achieve a greater maximum airspeed than a Mavic Mini (fat slug). Their speeds are different, but each of them under fixed atmospheric conditions have their own fixed maximum airspeed, regardless of whether they're flying North, South, East or West.

In the case of the Mavic Mini in Sport mode, its maximum airspeed is 29mph. That's as fast as it can "swim" through the air.

If that air itself is moving, that will influence the Mini's groundspeed, depending on whether the Mini is trying to "swim" upstream against the wind, or downstream with the wind.

 

[FlyBackOU812]

You got that correct ... you don't know and you don't know enough to understand the correct answer when it's explained to you.
Yet you think you can tell others they are wrong ??

You have a great point here as well... I thought for sure I had to be correct with just the understanding of drag and surface area. I appoligize to everyone!! And just because thats just who am, I will do that to everyone individually as well. So You better correct with this ?? thank you for your contribution here. A little embarrassed maybe but im man enough to face it when I'm wrong or i have wronged others. I actually thought I was helping tho

 

[RogerDH]

My thinking is/was this... lets say you put a radar gun in position that could capture this,, so hypothetically speaking here.. which I'm pretty sure and assuming measures ground speed, so using that radar gun and firing a long thin very pointy armor piercing bullet thats would, in no wind would be coming out of the barrel at lets say 4,000FPS into a headwind of 4,000FPS. Would that bullet stop in its tracks at the end of the barrel and drop to the ground? I would find that very hard to believe if so. Better yet... lets say its fired into a 3,000fps headwind would that mean the bullet would immediately upon leaving the barrel slow to 1,000fps? Because what I do understand about all this is that if you fired a slug round with the same bullet weight but a third of the first bullets length but fatter with 100 times bigger face point as the armor piercing bullet. I know for sure that wind would slow down the slug far more and far faster than the first bullet simply because of the surface area and drag that the wind puts on the 2 bullets face points. This was my whole reasoning behind my assumption.

A bullet is not a good analogy because it only accelerates while it's in the barrel. After it leaves the barrel, there is no more thrust, so it just slows down depending on its aerodynamic drag. An aircraft is a different matter: Given the maximum thrust of its motor(s), any aircraft will accelerate through the air until the drag exactly equals that thrust, and that will be its maximum airspeed.

I think where you're getting confused is thinking that when there's "no wind" you don't feel any force from the air, but when there is a "wind" you do feel a force, and the amount of force on any object depends on its aerodynamic drag. While that's true when you're standing on the ground, consider that "wind" just means that the air is moving relative to the ground. But an aircraft is off the ground, so that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is its maximum airspeed, which is still just the speed that the aerodynamic drag equals the thrust. If the air is moving relative to the ground, that just affects the aircraft's ground speed by simple vector arithmetic.

 

[Yogi053]

I never said anything about it being able to fly faster. Im not sure where that response is coming from

I suggest you read your original post again!
In your suggested answers A and C you have written 35 mph and 40 mph.
Does this appear only on my screen?
You have already admitted to typos so please check again!
I also may make typos, but I try to proof read my posts before committing them to the thread.

 

[surfbird]

I love your reply giving the DAT file screenshot to go along with your answer. BUTTT... LOL... There are parts of this equation you aren't figuring into it. With your figures, that would mean the wind pushes on all obstacles alike(All aircraft) what you aren't accounting for is the aerodynamics and surface area that will GREATLY effect each aircraft differently ?

You haven't understood the basic principles. Aerodynamics is never in the equation. It's so far from it and until you realize that you will never understand the rest.
Do some reading:

Relative Velocity - Ground Reference

www.grc.nasa.gov