NFZ Limit - just appeared on controller

[TR Ganey]

That theoretical "someone" you used as an example of a "professional" wouldn't last two seconds in the industry simply because they would intentionally break the law for the sake of a few dollars that they could otherwise earn doing legitimate work. Those type of cowboys would at best be hanging around the fringes and would eventually have to go back to selling used cars because no one would hire them.

And it's not about knowingly endangering anyone - ok so you wouldn't do that, that's awesome - good for you. It's about the unintentional incidents that occur when drone pilots ignore the regulations and then get reported in the press - and the press totally loves covering that kind of sensational content - anything to do with drones gets on the front page. Think about the big picture - not just how you or anyone else might find it inconvenient to have to obey the law.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Picture this setting, it's a cross road way out in the county where hwy 27 crosses hwy 51, hwy 27 has stop signs, hwy 51 does not, it's 3:00am, the roads are dry and it's 70*F. At this particular intersection there is a 40 acre field in all corners with low growing vegetation. A car approaches the intersection on hwy 27 and slows to approximately 5mph. Not seeing another vehicle approaching from any direction the driver continues through the intersection without coming to a complete stop. The law is, you come to a complete stop at stop signs. Given all the conditions the chance of the drivers actions causing an accident is zero. Clearly the traffic control device (stop sign) has served it's purpose as the driver slowed to the extent that he could have easily stopped if something had all of a sudden approached the intersection. But the law is the law! I've been a L.E.O. for over 20yrs and I've never written that citation and I never will because just as with anything else I choose to use a little common sense.

There is always the chance something can go wrong with anything and you don't have to be in or even close to a NFZ to have a drone cause a problem. With the average drone easily flying 30mph and just for conversation sake lets assume it could fly for 30 minutes. Should something go wrong it could fly 15 miles and crash into something. How many NFZ's could it cross in 15 miles. Laws, rules and regulations will never control every situation but if we use a little common sense it'll go a long way to ensuring a good outcome. I had sworn off commenting after our last exchange but I give in and come back one more time. I'll go ahead and allow you the last word and then lets just put this to bed as I don't see either of us budging from our positions and I don't believe the rest of the forum is getting any benefit from our exchanges. I believe your heart is in the right place and hope you have a blessed day.

 

[rmb]

Please in future think carefully about what you suggest to other drone pilots. This is EXACTLY the OPPOSITE of what ALL drone pilots should be doing. This "it's all about me" attitude will achieve nothing but lead to more and more draconian restrictions being handed down until such time as a total ban is imposed.

People, please ALWAYS keep your Maps/NoFly database updated with the latest data. It really should be a legal requirement with stiff penalties for those who do not comply.

Right on crystal-pete!

 

[Photo Booth]

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Picture this setting, it's a cross road way out in the county where hwy 27 crosses hwy 51, hwy 27 has stop signs, hwy 51 does not, it's 3:00am, the roads are dry and it's 70*F. At this particular intersection there is a 40 acre field in all corners with low growing vegetation. A car approaches the intersection on hwy 27 and slows to approximately 5mph. Not seeing another vehicle approaching from any direction the driver continues through the intersection without coming to a complete stop. The law is, you come to a complete stop at stop signs. Given all the conditions the chance of the drivers actions causing an accident is zero. Clearly the traffic control device (stop sign) has served it's purpose as the driver slowed to the extent that he could have easily stopped if something had all of a sudden approached the intersection. But the law is the law! I've been a L.E.O. for over 20yrs and I've never written that citation and I never will because just as with anything else I choose to use a little common sense.

There is always the chance something can go wrong with anything and you don't have to be in or even close to a NFZ to have a drone cause a problem. With the average drone easily flying 30mph and just for conversation sake lets assume it could fly for 30 minutes. Should something go wrong it could fly 15 miles and crash into something. How many NFZ's could it cross in 15 miles. Laws, rules and regulations will never control every situation but if we use a little common sense it'll go a long way to ensuring a good outcome. I had sworn off commenting after our last exchange but I give in and come back one more time. I'll go ahead and allow you the last word and then lets just put this to bed as I don't see either of us budging from our positions and I don't believe the rest of the forum is getting any benefit from our exchanges. I believe your heart is in the right place and hope you have a blessed day.

Yet another person that thinks the law is grey and he gets to decide when it applies to him or to someone else. And a LEO no less. Where is the rolling on the floor laughing my *** off emoji when I need it?



Mark

 

[ff22]

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Picture this setting, it's a cross road way out in the county where hwy 27 crosses hwy 51, hwy 27 has stop signs, hwy 51 does not, it's 3:00am, the roads are dry and it's 70*F. At this particular intersection there is a 40 acre field in all corners with low growing vegetation. A car approaches the intersection on hwy 27 and slows to approximately 5mph. Not seeing another vehicle approaching from any direction the driver continues through the intersection without coming to a complete stop. The law is, you come to a complete stop at stop signs. Given all the conditions the chance of the drivers actions causing an accident is zero. Clearly the traffic control device (stop sign) has served it's purpose as the driver slowed to the extent that he could have easily stopped if something had all of a sudden approached the intersection. But the law is the law! I've been a L.E.O. for over 20yrs and I've never written that citation and I never will because just as with anything else I choose to use a little common sense.

There is always the chance something can go wrong with anything and you don't have to be in or even close to a NFZ to have a drone cause a problem. With the average drone easily flying 30mph and just for conversation sake lets assume it could fly for 30 minutes. Should something go wrong it could fly 15 miles and crash into something. How many NFZ's could it cross in 15 miles. Laws, rules and regulations will never control every situation but if we use a little common sense it'll go a long way to ensuring a good outcome. I had sworn off commenting after our last exchange but I give in and come back one more time. I'll go ahead and allow you the last word and then lets just put this to bed as I don't see either of us budging from our positions and I don't believe the rest of the forum is getting any benefit from our exchanges. I believe your heart is in the right place and hope you have a blessed day.

Hmmmmmm. I was a magistrate for traffic infractions for a while. One guy comes in to fight his ticket for going through a red light. He lives in a housing development. T-intersection. His excuse/justification - everyone in the development treats that red light as a stop sign during certain hours of the day since there is limited traffic and a pain to have to wait for the green cycle. My decision - sounds reasonable but can't condone such actions. His price for getting caught doing what he and others "always" do - pay the fine.

But having a Husky game two miles from my home restrict me from flying on my 5,000 sq ft lot is nuts!!!!

 

[Photo Booth]

The GEO 2 changes affected drone flights above our home. We are about 7 miles from a medium-busy regional airport. An infrequently used runway's (for larger aircraft, which rarely use this airport) new hourglass extension is directly over our house. I just updated the GEO firmware on my Mavic Pro Platinum and tried a flight in our backyard.

I've lost 7 feet of altitude over what I could fly at before. I actually lost only about 3 feet...

DJI's map [DJI - The World Leader in Camera Drones/Quadcopters for Aerial Photography] indicates that max altitude in our area is 120 meters (393 feet). I have my Mavic's max altitude setting at 121 meters (396 feet). I never actually take the Mavic all the way up to 400 feet. Better to fly a few feet under that, not a big deal.

More important, under GEO 2, there is a LOT more area that isn't marked as an authorization zone or warning zone in our County. A friend has been asking me to shoot some aerial photos of his home but he lives right on the 3-mile edge of that airport. Under the previous GEO, I got an authorization required notice when attempting to fly at his house. But based on the new GEO 2 map, his home is now outside the authorization area and NOT under one of the hourglass extensions. The blue authorization area is now oval instead of perfectly round, putting his home outside of the blue area. I should be able to fly there now.

GEO 2 is a winner as far as I'm concerned!

Mark

 

[Rhinodron]

That theoretical "someone" you used as an example of a "professional" wouldn't last two seconds in the industry simply because they would intentionally break the law for the sake of a few dollars that they could otherwise earn doing legitimate work. Those type of cowboys would at best be hanging around the fringes and would eventually have to go back to selling used cars because no one would hire them.

And it's not about knowingly endangering anyone - ok so you wouldn't do that, that's awesome - good for you. It's about the unintentional incidents that occur when drone pilots ignore the regulations and then get reported in the press - and the press totally loves covering that kind of sensational content - anything to do with drones gets on the front page. Think about the big picture - not just how you or anyone else might find it inconvenient to have to obey the law.

In my business with real estate photography there is no one policing drone photos, so yes its whoever can get the job done on time is who gets it. These new zones are overkill and I am part 107 and have written authorization to operate within class D airspace and I shouldn't have to do extra steps, and sometimes I can't connect to wifi so that means driving out and having my drone locked down.

If you go on zillow or realtor.com I bet you 80% of the drone pictures are by agents/amateurs who do not have a part 107. Trust me I would be happy if the FAA went after every amateur and increased my business, but then I realize how stupid this is and no one is doing harm by flying up 100 feet to snap a few house pictures. What sets me apart is my photography background and its clear most people dont even edit the images.

Lets not even go into the helicopter pads that are go fenced off that have not been used in 30 years.

 

[Bob52]

FAA shot a few down here near the Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta. Look out!

Bob

 

[DanMan32]

Geo 2 should be called Geo 3.
The paperwork that came with my P3A indicated a gradual height limit as you approached an airport. That was no longer the case when I purchased it. Well, my dad did as my Christmas present. DJI found the inverted cone caused too many issues for legitimate flights, including indoors, in car parking garages, etc.

 

[Mirabeau Lamar]

Not sure if this works but you can check it out and lets us know.

It absolutely works, I used it just this morning!

 

[Donnie Frank]

Or...you can do this...



I took off and flew to about 3' AGL to test.

Here's the P4P test:


For this test I just spun up the motors without props attached. Occasionally I have jobs in Class C air space. I don't have time to mess with DJI's "permission process," so I just get permission via LAANC and fly unimpeded. I don't need DJI holding my hand or wiping my ***.

D

 

[deleted member 877]

Or...you can do this...

I took off and flew to about 3' AGL to test.

For this test I just spun up the motors without props attached. Occasionally I have jobs in Class C air space. I don't have time to mess with DJI's "permission process," so I just get permission via LAANC and fly unimpeded. I don't need DJI holding my hand or wiping my a**.

D

See this is what I'm talking about - a professional, responsible approach to resolving the DJI NFZ issue Thanks Donnie for your excellent and informative post !

 

[FatherXmas]

See this is what I'm talking about - a professional, responsible approach to resolving the DJI NFZ issue Thanks Donnie for your excellent and informative post !

Donnie didn't fly illegally, didn't bend any rules, he did it the right way. He used LAANC, got instant approval from the FAA and flew with it.

 

[DanMan32]

He doesn't appear to be in an NFZ, unless he submitted an unlock request to DJI.

 

[sar104]

He doesn't appear to be in an NFZ, unless he submitted an unlock request to DJI.

He's in Albuquerque Class C surface, which is an authorization zone:

 

[mavicdrvr]

Good math, SAR <smile>. Most pilots I know who fly for a living just use the old 3 to 1 rule, i.e., every mile from touchdown is 300 feet AGL and that keeps you on that 3 degree glideslope when cleared for the visual. Close enough for government work I expect. (But, most of us cheat and take a peek at the ILS now and again.) <bigger grin>

its not called cheating if you go down to localizer minimums once inside the final approach fix..

that is a lot lower than the 3 degree glidslope and depending on obstacles can be as low as 200 ft...

thats why drone pilots with limited understanding of the national airspace pose such a problem.. they really don't know how real aircraft operate...

 

[Rhinodron]

Or...you can do this...

View attachment 56039

I took off and flew to about 3' AGL to test.

Here's the P4P test:
View attachment 56040

For this test I just spun up the motors without props attached. Occasionally I have jobs in Class C air space. I don't have time to mess with DJI's "permission process," so I just get permission via LAANC and fly unimpeded. I don't need DJI holding my hand or wiping my ***.

D

Not quite sure I get what you are doing...

 

[ZoomBandit]

Did you ever get a useful answer on how to clear 'NFZ limit' from your remote?
I see a lot of discussion on bigger philosophical issues but no answer to your question.

 

[kilomikebravo]

There's no reason to extend my limitation 5 miles or more even under the glide slope.

Dan: I hear ya but, things happen on takeoff more often than any other time during a flight. Often, this requires the crew to stop climbing, (like when an engine fails or has to be shut down and power is reduced,) so those flights will not be as high as they would normally. And the last thing those two people need is to have a drone at their altitude that the only remaining engine might ingest and cause a second and possibly fatal, engine failure.

 

[raylo32]

You could always stay high longer and then do a radical slip to lose altitude quickly into the runway. Maybe your wife just likes thrill rides?

My wife despises long finals. She wants to fly at altitude to the end of the runway and then miraculously plop down to a quick stop. She says that when we do a long final approach she feels like the plane is going to fall out of the air. LOL

 

[kilomikebravo]

..they really don't know how real aircraft operate...

Quite true but, we shouldn't expect them to know if they don't fly traditional aircraft, I mean, how could they? The answer is education and this Forum is certainly one of the best places for that. Those who do have pilot licenses can be a great help to those who don't by explaining such things as "localizer minimums" and "final approach fixes."

its not called cheating if you go down to localizer minimums once inside the final approach fix..

It is if your OpSpecs require you to remain within one "dot" of the glideslope when cleared for an ILS approach. Clearance for the Localizer however does permit you to descend to the missed approach altitude once inside the Final Approach Fix.

For those who aren't sure what we're talking about, here's an ILS approach plate (ILS approaches are "precision" approaches while Localizer approaches are "non-precision," but both are depicted on the ILS approach plate. As you can see, the height above the ground (or touchdown) for the LOC (GS out) approach is 439' AGL which, as Mavicdrvr stated, can be well below the glideslope. ILS receivers are not cheap so most light aircraft do not have them and consequently, those pilots can only fly the Localizer approach with higher minimums.

But the crux of the situation is, no one should be flying a UAS anywhere along the runway centerline from the Final Approach Fix inbound.