No drones allowed signs

Dangerly · Oct 22, 2023

Dmcvey said:
Define "near"

So I called the number on the sign, and impressively enough, someone picked up right away. I quoted the sign to them, and they knew what I was talking about right away. I asked them if they could give any guidance on what "near" means - is it 1000 feet, a mile, anything at all they could say? All they said is that if they see the drone, then they will report it. So I asked them: Do you mean to say it's okay if I fly outside your direct visual line of sight? At that point the guy got really testy, and said, "no", I just mean if we visually see your drone, we'll report it.

In the end, the guy couldn't give me a single bit of advice on what "near" means, and he took my name and number and said he'd have their public affairs office call me back. If I find out any more I'll reply to this.

mavic3usa · Oct 22, 2023

Dangerly said:
So I called the number on the sign, and impressively enough, someone picked up right away. I quoted the sign to them, and they knew what I was talking about right away. I asked them if they could give any guidance on what "near" means - is it 1000 feet, a mile, anything at all they could say? All they said is that if they see the drone, then they will report it. So I asked them: Do you mean to say it's okay if I fly outside your direct visual line of sight? At that point the guy got really testy, and said, "no", I just mean if we visually see your drone, we'll report it.

In the end, the guy couldn't give me a single bit of advice on what "near" means, and he took my name and number and said he'd have their public affairs office call me back. If I find out any more I'll reply to this.

Congrats, you are now on their "list."

Dangerly · Oct 22, 2023

mavic3usa said:
Congrats, you are now on their "list."

I thought about that and realized that's okay as I'd love to see if there's something I can work out to get some great shots of the GGB. If not, doesn't hurt me.

Torque · Oct 22, 2023

UAVAndy said:
Yet helicopter tours of the Grand Canyon are OK.

Grand Canyon National Parks covers 1,900 square miles. It contains 6 No Fly Zones. They are set up to isolate the canyon's wild inhabitants and park visitors from the noise of plane and helicopter tours and other aircraft. Aircraft must operate within designated flight corridors and they are extremely busy. Tailwinds, downdrafts and turbulance puts helicopters at risk in these corridors. Certainly not a place for drones.

Droning on and on... · Oct 22, 2023

In addition to what @Torque says, there's this little game played around here that TRUST-level drone pilots are somehow comparable to commercial pilots flying manned aircraft. In so many myriad ways, nothing could be further from the truth.

A helicopter tour pilot has a lot to lose if flaunting the rules. A recreational Mini 3 pilot has nearly nothing to lose comparatively. The public trusts professional pilots much much more to follow the rules and "do the right thing" than they do private non-commercial drone operators.

mavic3usa · Oct 22, 2023

We're not asking to be treated like pilots who fly manned aircraft. We're just asking to be not be treated like 5 year olds (by being told no) and instead be treated like adult pilots who are capable of ordinary adult responsibilities and at least treated same as an responsible adult vehicle motorist would be treated. We don't need super adult level penalties applied to us to keep us under control. Let the hobby be a hobby.

Torque · Oct 22, 2023

mavic3usa said:
We're just asking to be not be treated like 5 year olds (by being told no)...

That is exaclty what it boils down to isn't it? You don't like being told "no".

Droning on and on... · Oct 22, 2023

mavic3usa said:
We're not asking to be treated like pilots who fly manned aircraft. We're just asking to be not be treated like 5 year olds (by being told no)

Understand that there are plenty of people, hobbyist pilots among them, that do not interpret "no" as you do.

mavic3usa · Oct 22, 2023

Torque said:
That is exaclty what it boils down to isn't it? You don't like being told "no".

Droning on and on... said:
Understand that there are plenty of people, hobbyist pilots among them, that do not interpret "no" as you do.

I'm just surprised to see the abundance of no drones signs, it seems to rank up there with no smoking, no skateboarding, and no loitering. You would think flying drones is something that needs to be controlled as if it were a nuisance. But that's fine, I'm going to wait until Amazon and Google and UPS and others get into the drone business and all this will change but they aren't pushovers and won't be told "no."

landmark orbiter · Oct 23, 2023

The rules are in place that mitigate the risks such as the Drone Code in the UK. There do not need to be “no drone” signs anywhere. The general public do not understand how safe drones actually are. Perhaps they need educating?

Droning on and on... · Oct 23, 2023

In contrast, @mavic3usa, the only ones I've ever seen in a decade of flying are on this forum.

Maybe because I've never thought of flying over the GG Brisge, Grand Canyon, Yosemite Village or the falls, etc. Somehow, as a veteran, experienced drone hobbyist, I knew these places would be off limits.

mavic3usa · Oct 23, 2023

Droning on and on... said:
In contrast, @mavic3usa, the only ones I've ever seen in a decade of flying are on this forum.

Maybe because I've never thought of flying over the GG Brisge, Grand Canyon, Yosemite Village or the falls, etc. Somehow, as a veteran, experienced drone hobbyist, I knew these places would be off limits.

Sadly I see them often, they are everywhere. It's ridiculous.

TonyPHX · Oct 23, 2023

Just do the right thing. Fly only if legally allowed, and then only if ethically allowed.

Dangerly · Oct 23, 2023

TonyPHX said:
Just do the right thing. Fly only if legally allowed, and then only if ethically allowed.

Like I said when I started this thread, "...it should be so obvious that of course you shouldn't fly a drone there..." In my experience, pilots have widely divergent ethics about whether flying a drone should be allowed.

It's obvious to me that the sight, sound, and general invasiveness of a drone would significantly detract from the experience people have at the Grand Canyon. On top of that, there's the safety issue of not flying drones over people, and disturbing the wildlife (mostly ravens and a few Condors - 10 foot wingspans!) And for that reason alone, regardless of whether you see any signs or it's clear airspace, you shouldn't fly a drone there.

But on top of that, from my own ethical perspective (which is likely different from yours!), out of respect for the place itself and the animals and independent of humans, I wouldn't fly a drone at the Grand Canyon.

mavic3usa · Oct 23, 2023

Dangerly said:
Like I said when I started this thread, "...it should be so obvious that of course you shouldn't fly a drone there..." In my experience, pilots have widely divergent ethics about whether flying a drone should be allowed.

It's obvious to me that the sight, sound, and general invasiveness of a drone would significantly detract from the experience people have at the Grand Canyon. On top of that, there's the safety issue of not flying drones over people, and disturbing the wildlife (mostly ravens and a few Condors - 10 foot wingspans!) And for that reason alone, regardless of whether you see any signs or it's clear airspace, you shouldn't fly a drone there.

But on top of that, from my own ethical perspective (which is likely different from yours!), out of respect for the place itself and the animals and independent of humans, I wouldn't fly a drone at the Grand Canyon.

Not me. I don't fly the grand canyon because it is illegal. As soon as they change the law and open it up by handing out single day passes a year in advance with tight geographic restrictions, the GC is at the top of my list for destinations. The North Rim.

Until then, I won't even bring my drone into the Park.

Dangerly · Oct 23, 2023

mavic3usa said:
Not me. I don't fly the grand canyon because it is illegal. As soon as they change the law and open it up by handing out single day passes a year in advance with tight geographic restrictions, the GC is at the top of my list for destinations. The North Rim. Until then, I won't even bring my drone into the Park.

My drone dream would be to take the FPV in M mode from the north rim straight down until I get to the river and then fly low and fast following the river.

mavic3usa · Oct 23, 2023

Dangerly said:
My drone dream would be to take the FPV in M mode from the north rim straight down until I get to the river and then fly low and fast following the river.

Seems like a few people have tried but not with an FPV which would definitely be more fun. This is illegal regardless who is there at the park are not. As you probably know, that long road to the entrance and even back into the park, there's no one around but unfortunately, it still isn't legal to fly a drone anywhere near this area. Perhaps there is a way to get permit, doesn't hurt to ask:

landmark orbiter · Oct 23, 2023

mavic3usa said:
Not me. I don't fly the grand canyon because it is illegal. As soon as they change the law and open it up by handing out single day passes a year in advance with tight geographic restrictions, the GC is at the top of my list for destinations. The North Rim. Until then, I won't even bring my drone into the Park.

Why is it illegal?

landmark orbiter · Oct 23, 2023

What a joke this is

mavic3usa · Oct 23, 2023

^Yes that entire area is a no fly zone for drones. No drone would be able to fly from outside the park and then over the canyon, it's way too far away for that. Again, I would like to see some parts of a smaller area opened up for a short period of time, maybe even off peak hours. At the least, hand out permits to people who can demonstrate. Otherwise, we are just going to have people like the guy in the video unknowingly flying his drone inside the Park with basically no one around to complain or stop him as per his comments which are from over a year ago.