No Need in 3 threads. Here it is.

[Johnmcl7]

In the UK prices have to be quoted with the tax (20% VAT) included and I think it's the same in Europe whereas in the US prices are usually shown without VAT so they may not be as bad as they look.

I was curious the size difference between a 4/3 and 1in camera so looked up the LX100mkii and the RX100VA since they have very similar lenses:

Side by Side Comparison Panasonic LX100 II vs. Sony RX100 VA: Digital Photography Review

They're closer than I thought since I remember trying an LX100 but finding it a bit big compared to the RX100 I was using at the time.

 

[jfo]

I am very committed now to buying this drone since I just literally came back home from meeting a buyer who just bought my Mavic 2 Pro with smart controller. I gave everything away at a giveaway price of $1,400 for everything. I gave it away indeed. My Mavic 2 Pro is exactly 3 years old today while my Smart Controller is 7 months old. Here are some pictures of it that I posted on Craigslist.

As for the Mavic 3, I am truly hoping that this leak about the price is false because I am very demoralized now for I was hoping to buy the Cine version, but cannot afford $5,600 for it.

Converting the Euro prices above to US prices is truly alarming at what we get.
Mavic 3 base model = $2,500
Mavic 3 Fly More = $3,400
Mavic 3 Cine = $5,600

I am truly hoping this is not what DJI will charge us in the US for these packages. After flying with the Smart Controller only for like 7 months with my Mavic 2 Pro that I have owned for 3 years, I know my next drone purchase MUST have the smart controller. I just cannot see myself not having that any more. So, I hope DJI does not ask us to pay $5,600 for the M3 Cine.

I wonder how much the Smart Controller will cost by itself. $1,500? OR $2,000?

What is so special about the SC? I have Mavic 1 Pro, obviously with the old controller, and M2EA with SC and honestly, I don't care. I mean, maybe I am missing something, but I really see no difference. It takes like 15 seconds to set up the old one with my phone and from then on it's no difference, except for the size of the screen, but that can be overcome using a tablet if one really needs it.

 

[BSauce955]

As for the Mavic 3, I am truly hoping that this leak about the price is false because I am very demoralized now for I was hoping to buy the Cine version, but cannot afford $5,600 for it.
Converting the Euro prices above to US prices is truly alarming at what we get.

Mavic 3 base model = $2,500
Mavic 3 Fly More = $3,400
Mavic 3 Cine = $5,600

I am truly hoping this is not what DJI will charge us in the US for these packages. After flying with the Smart Controller only for like 7 months with my Mavic 2 Pro that I have owned for 3 years, I know my next drone purchase MUST have the smart controller. I just cannot see myself not having that any more. So, I hope DJI does not ask us to pay $5,600 for the M3 Cine.

I wonder how much the Smart Controller will cost by itself. $1,500? OR $2,000?

I've heard rumors that it's supposed to replace the Inspire 2 which is kind of understandable when looking at the supposed design hence the high price. For me personally, if these are the real prices, I'm just going to use the Air 2S and/or a Mavic 2 Pro. $2,500 even for the base model is simply not workable for me and 5,600 for the cine model is insane. A fly-more combo costing $900 is simply insane and unworkable for me. This is just my personal opinion so I know I don't speak for everyone. Just my personal humble opinion.

 

[PetitFrereArmada]

What is so special about the SC? I have Mavic 1 Pro, obviously with the old controller, and M2EA with SC and honestly, I don't care. I mean, maybe I am missing something, but I really see no difference. It takes like 15 seconds to set up the old one with my phone and from then on it's no difference, except for the size of the screen, but that can be overcome using a tablet if one really needs it.

It is a preference thing, not a want or must have thing.

When you buy the Smart Controller and use it, you may appreciate it and want to always have it. It is just different and a preference. That is why most people who have used it prefer it. I am one of those who have used it and really like it. But it is definitely not a must have thing.

So, it is one of those things that you get it if you think you will like to use it. Not something everybody will like or want. I am sure some people have bought it and returned it or said it was a waste of money, but I am sure most of the people who have bought it from DJI do appreciate it. I am one of those who prefer to use it.

 

[PetitFrereArmada]

I've heard rumors that it's supposed to replace the Inspire 2 which is kind of understandable when looking at the supposed design hence the high price. For me personally, if these are the real prices, I'm just going to use the Air 2S and/or a Mavic 2 Pro. $2,500 even for the base model is simply not workable for me and 5,600 for the cine model is insane. A fly-more combo costing $900 is simply insane and unworkable for me. This is just my personal opinion so I know I don't speak for everyone. Just my personal humble opinion.

Very well said. There is no problem with acknowledging something like this because some people have better priorities in life. You may have better priorities to put your money into. That is very fine and a good thing to do, besides, you already have drones.

These prices are truly very high, so it makes sense for someone to evaluate their finances and see if it is worth it or not. So many people buy this drone using Affirm to finance it with interest rates of up to 29%! I personally always prefer to pay cash for it. I would never advise someone to finance a drone, but you know people do what they want to do. Many people will take out Affirm or paypal loans to pay for it and some of the buyers may end up crashing the drones and totaling them before half of the loan is paid off.

So, for someone who refuses to upgrade because it is not a good financial decision for them, that is a smart person. No need to buy something when you consider it not to be a smart financial decision for you. We know some people will buy it just because of the hype and take those loans with 29% interest and end up not even paying off the loan because they crashed the drone or because they just do not want to continue paying for the drone.

 

[CanadaDrone]

In the UK prices have to be quoted with the tax (20% VAT) included and I think it's the same in Europe whereas in the US prices are usually shown without VAT so they may not be as bad as they look.

I was curious the size difference between a 4/3 and 1in camera so looked up the LX100mkii and the RX100VA since they have very similar lenses:

Side by Side Comparison Panasonic LX100 II vs. Sony RX100 VA: Digital Photography Review

They're closer than I thought since I remember trying an LX100 but finding it a bit big compared to the RX100 I was using at the time.

The LX100 is actually a unique camera in that while it houses a M43 sensor, it doesn't actually use the full area of it. It uses the larger sensor to enable multi-aspect shooting modes without altering focal length, but there is actually no way to use the entire sensor in that camera.

This is a good visual representation of sensor size differences:

https://www.dpreview.com/files/p/articles/9716229576/Sensors2.png

(Sorry - forum won't let me imbed a simple photo)

The area of a 1" sensor is about 123mm2, and the area of a M43 sensor is about 225mm2, which is about ~83% larger .

As far as I am aware, Panasonic and Sony are the only manufacturers of M43 sensors so it will be from one of those two OEMs (most likely Sony).

I welcome the larger sensor but I don't think people are going to see an earth shattering difference between a 1" and M43 sensor overall - the M43 sensors are indeed better and will have better ISO performance (one full stop better) with slightly more control over DOF (a factor of 2.0 for M43 vs 2.7 for 1" compared to a full frame camera). Dynamic range capability is virtually identical between modern 1" and M43 sensors. To see a really significant difference from 1" you need to move up to APS-C, at least in my experience, but putting something like that on a compact drone is obviously not realistic.

My biggest complaint with the M2P is no distortion correction when shooting at 28mm, and I strongly suspect that will be resolved in the M3 as it is in the Air 2S. I would also prefer a 3:2 shooting ratio to 4:3, much like larger more professional cameras, but not a deal breaker.

Also, I have been to Inverness - what a beautiful area (and entire country!)

 

[wco81]

At $5600, why wouldn't people buy the Inspire 2 at $3200 instead?

Even $2500 would eliminate a lot of Mavic 2 owners.

Air2S at $999, Mavic 2 Pro at $1599 (out of stock) and the next one up would be $2500?

That's a huge gulf, $999 to $2500.

They show the Phantom 4 Pro at $1599 but is anyone really buying this any more?

For that matter, Mavic 2 Pro and Zoom sales probably are tiny now, with more people buying the Mini and the Air2S.

 

[mschaffer66]

At $5600, why wouldn't people buy the Inspire 2 at $3200 instead?

Even $2500 would eliminate a lot of Mavic 2 owners.

Air2S at $999, Mavic 2 Pro at $1599 (out of stock) and the next one up would be $2500?

That's a huge gulf, $999 to $2500.

They show the Phantom 4 Pro at $1599 but is anyone really buying this any more?

For that matter, Mavic 2 Pro and Zoom sales probably are tiny now, with more people buying the Mini and the Air2S.

Thats what I was trying to get at earlier.

$999 to $2500 is a huge price range to not have something else sitting in. In my opinion a void like that leaves a lot of room for other brands to come in and put something there and steal sales away.

 

[PetitFrereArmada]

 

[CanadaDrone]

IMO there is no way it is going to be $5,600 USD for the Cine package unless there are important details we haven't seen yet. It's never accurate to convert European or Asian prices to North American pricing, especially for consumer electronics. Not only are they always priced different to begin with, but there is 20% VAT in European electronics prices that we do not see in North America.

I look at it like this:

M2P Launch price was $1499 USD, ~$2049 USD with Smart Controller and everything with the fly more combo was around $2,500 USD.

M3 will have to be more expensive due to the larger sensor and the addition of a second camera, but there is no way they charge you $3,000 USD just for that M43 sensor (you can buy entire professional M43 cameras for much less) and with the slightly larger sensor in the zoom camera unit.

The new Smart Controller appears to be nearly identical to the old one with updated internals for Occusync 3.0 and probably some other very minor changes. Nothing there should demand a significant price increase.

2 extra batteries, a charger, and other small accessories: I don't know, add roughly $600 USD?

Also, you can usually build your own "fly more" combo excluding the things you don't need to save even more money.

Another way to look at it: The M2 series is one of DJI's biggest money makers, if not their biggest. Pricing it like that is going to dramatically reduce sales from their largest target market. On top of that, the pricing gap it would leave in their own lineup would be enormous and very unconventional from a marketing perspective.

I would venture a guess of something closer to $3999 USD for the Cine package which I think would be realistic, and maybe $1999-$2299 USD for the "base" package - basically an extra $500-800 USD on top of the M2P for the extra camera and minor spec bump elsewhere.

Also a proper Inspire 2 setup is $10-20K+ USD so I can't see this being a replacement for that platform, especially given the target market of that platform and the significant difference in capability as well as operation. The Inspire line is a dramatically different setup for a completely different audience. It is much more stable in bad weather, much faster, and is rated for use down to -20C with heated batteries. It also has a full range gimbal and can be used with $8,000 USD full frame sensor cameras. All of that is a far cry from what we see in the M3 leaks and your average buyer will never be cross-shopping the two. If someone is able to "downgrade" from an Inspire 2 to a M3, for example, they likely did not need the Inspire in the first place haha.

Anyway, just my opinion - it's fun to speculate.

 

[Johnmcl7]

The LX100 is actually a unique camera in that while it houses a M43 sensor, it doesn't actually use the full area of it. It uses the larger sensor to enable multi-aspect shooting modes without altering focal length, but there is actually no way to use the entire sensor in that camera.

This is a good visual representation of sensor size differences:

https://www.dpreview.com/files/p/articles/9716229576/Sensors2.png

(Sorry - forum won't let me imbed a simple photo)

The area of a 1" sensor is about 123mm2, and the area of a M43 sensor is about 225mm2, which is about ~83% larger .

As far as I am aware, Panasonic and Sony are the only manufacturers of M43 sensors so it will be from one of those two OEMs (most likely Sony).

I welcome the larger sensor but I don't think people are going to see an earth shattering difference between a 1" and M43 sensor overall - the M43 sensors are indeed better and will have better ISO performance (one full stop better) with slightly more control over DOF (a factor of 2.0 for M43 vs 2.7 for 1" compared to a full frame camera). Dynamic range capability is virtually identical between modern 1" and M43 sensors. To see a really significant difference from 1" you need to move up to APS-C, at least in my experience, but putting something like that on a compact drone is obviously not realistic.

My biggest complaint with the M2P is no distortion correction when shooting at 28mm, and I strongly suspect that will be resolved in the M3 as it is in the Air 2S. I would also prefer a 3:2 shooting ratio to 4:3, much like larger more professional cameras, but not a deal breaker.

Also, I have been to Inverness - what a beautiful area (and entire country!)

I had a nagging doubt there was something about the LX100 and I'd completely forgotten it wasn't the full sensor so thanks for that.

I do agree about APS-C sensors and haven't used m43 since the GH2/m43 but I'd thought I'd still like to get as much as possible from a Mavic sized drone where APS-C isn't an option. That said although these are still rumours I'm finding myself starting to go cold on the idea.

Edit - I'm biased but I love it up in Inverness with so much great countryside nearby for the drone, walking and cycling, great to hear you've been here to enjoy it.

 

[Papa Echo]

Are there any rumors about goggles for the Mavic 3?
I would only buy the Mavic 3 if DJI offers goggles with OcuSync 3 and Full HD.

 

[BSauce955]

Well, I do not believe these are fake!
View attachment 135340View attachment 135341

Mind if I ask where you found these?

 

[Drone Master]

Mind if I ask where you found these?

Found just like any other images. Usually thru many leak twitter accounts and inside sources.

 

[BSauce955]

Found just like any other images. Usually thru many leak twitter accounts and inside sources.

Brilliant thinking.

 

[VenomXts]

Are there any rumors about goggles for the Mavic 3?
I would only buy the Mavic 3 if DJI offers goggles with OcuSync 3 and Full HD.

Man, I hope it does I am sitting on two pairs of the v2 dji ones for FPV and I really hoped the air2s would pick up the feature so going to be really disappointed if the Mavic 3 doesn't especially with the older Mavic's supporting the older goggles.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Man, I hope it does I am sitting on two pairs of the v2 dji ones for FPV and I really hoped the air2s would pick up the feature so going to be really disappointed if the Mavic 3 doesn't especially with the older Mavic's supporting the older goggles.

Be crazy, not to mention not a good commercial choice, to have any new drone compatible with older goggles . . . they haven't been in production now for a good while.
Mind you, they could just produce a drone that doesn't work with goggles, but it seems like a lost opportunity for a lot of FPV V2 goggles sales.

As the DJI FPV uses the new FPV V2 goggles, I think they could work it in for any new models.
Let's hope so, they do add some great perspective, especially for spectator able to get the pilot seat experience.

 

[globetrotterdrone]

I guess, their "older" parts (like the goggles, SC v1) would work quite well, however considering that DJI is going to raise the fidelity a bit, we might have to wait for them to support it with additional costs in software engineering. I guess, if that is feasible with low effort, the chances are not too bad - however maybe not at launch.

Considering the shortage in electronics nowadays, that might also sell some drone even better with the possibility to upgrade additional gear when it is available instead of waiting/refusing completely and probably will shorten this process for "legacy" support.

 

[CanadaDrone]

For those of you looking at the 'news' that the zoom camera (really should be called telephoto as the specs are listed) is a fixed focal length, that has always been the case looking at the leaked specs. It will be great if the leaked specs are wrong and it's an actual optical zoom but the way it's described on the spec sheet has never suggested any ability to zoom.

The leaked specs on the official looking sheet say it's a 160mm equivalent F4.4, and if there were a 7X optical zoom built in there, almost certainly the aperture would be variable (they didn't even use a fixed aperture on the 2X wide angle zoom in the M2Z), and almost certainly they would list the focal length range in the specs as they do with the M2Z. If it's an actual "zoom", that will be a nice surprise, but so far there is nothing that ever suggested it was. It also lists only a single field of view which is consistent with a fixed focal length.

If the sensor is 1/2" then we know it has a crop factor of ~5.4 relative to a full frame sensor. With that information we know the lens' actual focal length is ~29.63mm which means it needs to have a minimum front element diameter of 6.3mm (the actual lens element, not the glass on the camera housing) if it's a 160mm equivalent F4.4. The lens looks really small in the leaked photos, so that seems to make sense, at least with all the leaks/rumors so far. If it was a 7X optical zoom topping out at 160mm equivalent, that also puts the wide end at around ~23mm which is rather pointless when the main camera is 24mm (again based on the leaked specs). A 24-160 lens design is very complicated and would have a lot of optical compromises (similar already lenses exist in the DSLR world). It makes a lot more sense that it's 7X in relation to the main 24mm camera, which puts it right at the 160mm matching the specs.

Another reason I don't think it's an actual zoom (based on the wording in the leaks) is if it's a F4.4 lens, that is presumably on the "wide" end which we know has to be around 23/24mm based on the 7X factor and 160mm maximum focal length. F4.4 is already getting rather slow, and I don't think DJI would have one of the cameras on it's Pro model be forced down to F8 or so, as it's very unlikely they can maintain that F4.4 aperture as a constant throughout a 7X zoom range in such a tiny package when they didn't even do so in the M2Z's 2X optical zoom.

I think the 7X is just relative to the main camera, just like how it's advertised in smartphones. For example the 3X or 10X options you may have on your smartphone aren't actually 'zooms', they are fixed focal length lenses that are simply described in multiples of the main camera's focal length.

If some details were left out of the leaks, then obviously that changes everything, but as written in the leaked specs, the secondary camera is not an optical zoom.

 

[Kywon McCain]

This new drone looks like a folded cockroach...


Is that.. a flash on that camera?

Looks like the first thing to break on that drone is one of the front arms. They look very skinny and easy to break in half... Unless they are reinforced.

5k? I wonder what 5k looks like...