Part 107 vs recreational rules

[PhantomFandom]

Of course it doesn't really matter that you are not allowed to fly at night without a daylight operations waiver under Part 107 if you are not qualified to fly under Part 107 to begin with.

True, but it would be a double whammy.

He would be flying a Part 107 flight without being licensed AND since the intent of the flight was commercial (although unlicensed), he was illegally flying at night. Does one preclude the other? Since he had no right to fly a part 107 mission does it mean that it is Ok for him to fly at night (even though the mission itself should have been flown by a licensed Part 107 pilot)?

It seems to me that if the flight does fall under recreational then there are no issues on both counts.

However if the flight "should have been flown" by a licensed Part 107 pilot then the night time flight is also an issue.

Or would you interpret it as the night time flight having no applicability since he can't possibly be flying a Part 107 mission since he does not have a license? Interesting question.

 

[Booz]

To me this sounds like a very bad idea. Flying a drone or any aerial craft while under a time constraint (and in this case in the dark) is a good way to have an accident. 3 to 5 minutes is no time at all considering the drone startup, pre-flight checks, obtaining GPS Home Lock, flying, setting up the shot, and bringing it back safely.

Well, just to add to the context of all this we are playing from 8-midnight. The first hour long set is well before sunset and civil twilight. That is where I would looking to shoot.

 

[PhantomFandom]

You hit that 'grey area' I was talking about right on the head.

I cant control who shares the pics or videos (to their friends/followers who dont already know about my band) posted on my personal social media pages, where other people may or may not be motivated to check out my band who would not have done so without the footage.

EXACTLY my point. You can however control where you post the video. Keep it off of all social media.

I'll ask you this...Does your social media prominently "promote" your band? Promote is a very general term here. Do you post a lot about your band? If so then you must surely know that your band does get publicity from your posts. As such, posting a drone video there would not be "gray area" at all.

 

[PhantomFandom]

Well, just to add to the context of all this we are playing from 8-midnight. The first hour long set is well before sunset and civil twilight. That is where I would looking to shoot.

That only comes into play for Part 107 flights. If it were a Part 107 flight then you would also need to have anti-collision lighting (with 3-mile range) on the drone during civil twilight.

Under recreational flight rules, you could fly at night.

 

[PhantomFandom]

@Booz , I would suggest at this point to not take video, unless you plan on keeping it only for yourself and not posting it on social media.

I commend you for giving this some considerable thought and having enough foresight to ask here. It shows that you are considering the safety and legality of the flight, and that is important to the entire community. Bravo!

 

[sar104]

True, but it would be a double whammy.

He would be flying a Part 107 flight without being licensed AND since the intent of the flight was commercial (although unlicensed), he was illegally flying at night. Does one preclude the other? Since he had no right to fly a part 107 mission does it mean that it is Ok for him to fly at night (even though the mission itself should have been flown by a licensed Part 107 pilot)?

It seems to me that if the flight does fall under recreational then there are no issues on both counts.

However if the flight "should have been flown" by a licensed Part 107 pilot then the night time flight is also an issue.

Or would you interpret it as the night time flight having no applicability since he can't possibly be flying a Part 107 mission since he does not have a license? Interesting question.

No, I agree. It would be a Part 107 flight if not recreational because all non-recreational flight is, by definition, under Part 107, even if illegally. I was just observing that once you are flying illegally under Part 107 then individual rules broken will likely be somewhat moot - but maybe not.

 

[Booz]

EXACTLY my point. You can however control where you post the video. Keep it off of all social media.

I'll ask you this...Does your social media prominently "promote" your band? Promote is a very general term here. Do you post a lot about your band? If so then you must surely know that your band does get publicity from your posts. As such, posting a drone video there would not be "gray area" at all.

Well yes and no.

I post media to my personal page that shares with what I'm doing in my life. that is fishing trips, music events that I'm playing in, photography, family events, etc..

I do post about my band and upcoming shows.

Going to call this post answered at this point since any shooting, and sharing of the footage, of this event could circumstantially be interpreted as a commercial mission.

 

[PhantomFandom]

No, I agree. It would be a Part 107 flight if not recreational because all non-recreational flight is, by definition, under Part 107, even if illegally. I was just observing that once you are flying illegally under Part 107 then individual rules broken will likely be somewhat moot - but maybe not.

In for a penny, so in for a pound

 

[PhantomFandom]

Well yes and no.

I post media to my personal page that shares with what I'm doing in my life. that is fishing trips, music events that I'm playing in, photography, family events, etc..

I do post about my band and upcoming shows.

Going to call this post answered at this point since any shooting, and sharing of the footage, of this event could circumstantially be interpreted as a commercial mission.

Hey good luck with the gig tonight. Sounds like it will be a really good time there.

 

[Booz]

@Booz , I would suggest at this point to not take video, unless you plan on keeping it only for yourself and not posting it on social media.

I commend you for giving this some considerable thought and having enough foresight to ask here. It shows that you are considering the safety and legality of the flight, and that is important to the entire community. Bravo!

I appreciate the constructive feedback!

Guessing there is no difference between videos or pictures in this case. Both of which would be awesome to have of this event tonight that could end up in my digital 'photo albums' that I could show to my kid, and maybe grandkids.

Have a good 4th of July!

 

[Booz]

Hey good luck with the gig tonight. Sounds like it will be a really good time there.

Thanks! Would love to post pics later, but yea... doesnt look like I can/should.. lol ?‍

 

[sar104]

In for a penny, so in for a pound

Flying uncertified under Part 107 breaks 107.12, probably 107.13 (but not necessarily), 107.61 and 107.65. A night flight would add 107.29.

 

[JohnnyD913]

Essentially one of my friends who is an instructor and pilot who teaches 107 courses told me this for example about flying tonight for fireworks for an example....maybe it will help explain what you can do a bit in your situation.

" You have to decide before you fly and once you choose the rules to follow, you can't use the footage for commercial purposes.
So in this case, I'm guessing people want to fly at night to get firework. As long as you're not flying in controlled airspace, you can fly without a waiver as a hobbyist, but can't use the footage commercially. Flying in controlled airspace at night as a hobbyist is not allowed."

So as someone who has their 107 which I do....if I go fly tonight I have to decide if for hobbyist or do I plan on selling my shots, etc. and legally you can't do both unless you get a waiver to fly at night as a 107 pilot nothing you can do with the footage other than have for yourself. Maybe this helps.

Excellent

 

[Knight48]

OMG
You should have known better to post that here. You are getting paid for your performance not for the video. Just go fly get some nice footage and post it. I can guarantee you the FAA won’t come knocking.
I’ve seen the most crazy [Language removed by ADMIN] being posted and the FAA doesn’t come knocking so something as simple as this, I wouldn’t even bat an eye at,
Go have fun!
Jeese ! Some of you guys I just ridiculous, and yes I have my part 107 too,

 

[Booz]

OMG
You should have known better to post that here. You are getting paid for your performance not for the video. Just go fly get some nice footage and post it. I can guarantee you the FAA won’t come knocking.
I’ve seen the most crazy [Language removed by ADMIN] being posted and the FAA doesn’t come knocking so something as simple as this, I wouldn’t even bat an eye at,
Go have fun!
Jeese ! Some of you guys I just ridiculous, and yes I have my part 107 too,

Haha!

I did anticipate some blowback since I'm not 107 licensed yet, and i can see how my questions could be seen as naive. I am fairly new to drone piloting, but have researched enough to question the legality around certain flights now.

I just wanted to get insight from more experienced pilots here.

Shame on me! ?

No really, I do appreciate everyones perspectives and different ways of interpreting the event and circumstances around shooting it recreationally vs as a 107 mission.

I did get some decent shots of the fireworks though!

Hope yall had a good night last night!

 

[Knight48]

Haha!

I did anticipate some blowback since I'm not 107 licensed yet, and i can see how my questions could be seen as naive. I am fairly new to drone piloting, but have researched enough to question the legality around certain flights now.

I just wanted to get insight from more experienced pilots here.

Shame on me! ?

No really, I do appreciate everyones perspectives and different ways of interpreting the event and circumstances around shooting it recreationally vs as a 107 mission.

I did get some decent shots of the fireworks though!

Hope yall had a good night last night!

Cool cool!
Wanna see some vids! Lol ?

 

[BigAl07]

OMG
You should have known better to post that here. You are getting paid for your performance not for the video. Just go fly get some nice footage and post it. I can guarantee you the FAA won’t come knocking.
I’ve seen the most crazy [Language removed by ADMIN] being posted and the FAA doesn’t come knocking so something as simple as this, I wouldn’t even bat an eye at,
Go have fun!
Jeese ! Some of you guys I just ridiculous, and yes I have my part 107 too,

Absolutely HORRIBLE and reckless advice!!

I can tell you FIRST HAND that it's very possible the FAA could come knocking. We have had several members of this forum and on Phantom Pilots to get the phone call, letter, and the Knock-Knock. It's been noted several times that it was most likely information they shared online (here and YT & FB) that got the ball rolling.

I repeat HORRIBLE advice!! Tsk tsk tsk ! ! !

 

[iaincaradoc]

We have had several members of this forum and on Phantom Pilots to get the phone call, letter, and the Knock-Knock.

I went looking, and beyond a few posts where people had the local police come knocking because of a neighbor's complaint, I'm not seeing any posts from anyone saying they received a visit from the FAA. Is there somewhere else I should look?

 

[BigAl07]

I went looking, and beyond a few posts where people had the local police come knocking because of a neighbor's complaint, I'm not seeing any posts from anyone saying they received a visit from the FAA. Is there somewhere else I should look?

You might have more luck over on Phantom Pilots as I know there have been a few that provided solid evidence they have been directly contacted for "Educational Contact" by the FAA.

I can tell you first hand the FAA is indeed interested in people violating Part 107 (any flight outside of Hobby is by default a Civil Operation aka Part 107 even if you don't have Part 107 credentials). If there is an incident or a report against you , and you're in the Western NC, Charlotte WEST region, I'm likely to be one of the people possibly contacting you via an FAA report.

 

[iaincaradoc]

I'm in Arizona - and I'm a Part 107 pilot. I was looking for first-hand experiences with those incidents, as what I generally pick up in the media is, well, quite sensationalized.

Nice to know that the people on the other end of the process have some interest in it, though!

I'll take a look on PhantomPilots.