Part 107 vs recreational rules

[PhantomFandom]

You might have more luck over on Phantom Pilots as I know there have been a few that provided solid evidence they have been directly contacted for "Educational Contact" by the FAA.

I can tell you first hand the FAA is indeed interested in people violating Part 107 (any flight outside of Hobby is by default a Civil Operation aka Part 107 even if you don't have Part 107 credentials). If there is an incident or a report against you , and you're in the Western NC, Charlotte WEST region, I'm likely to be one of the people possibly contacting you via an FAA report.

Hi Al,

First of all, it's great to see you back here! You were missed and I hope all is well.

Second, great advice. Telling people to just disregard the regulations is indeed reckless and irresponsible.

Finally I would like to add that if these non licensed pilots put even half the energy they use to fight the regulations and argue about something being recreational or commercial, into actually getting their Part 107 license then we would not be having these conversations. It is so simple and cheap that there really is no barrier to doing so.

 

[BigAl07]

Hi Al,

First of all, it's great to see you back here! You were missed and I hope all is well.

Second, great advice. Telling people to just disregard the regulations is indeed reckless and irresponsible.

Finally I would like to add that if these non licensed pilots put even half the energy they use to fight the regulations and argue about something being recreational or commercial, into actually getting their Part 107 license then we would not be having these conversations. It is so simple and cheap that there really is no barrier to doing so.

Thank you sir. It's been a crazy time in the Emergency Services world with all this COVID stuff. Talk about a New NORMAL!! I'm hoping to have more time here on the forum as things HOPEFULLY calm down. On the plus side, my UAS company is the busiest we've ever been since we started in ~2012/2013. It's been CRAZY yet AWESOME lately.

I totally agree. Some people will fight/argue just for the sake of it. I find it's easier to jump through the hoops and be in the clear for anything and every opportunity that comes my way.

For reference, I was also one of the people who got the Section 333 Exemption so we could do this legally long before Part 107. For those who think Part 107 is a hassle/expensive you may want to research what it took for Section 333 Exemptions. Part 107 is a leisurely walk in the park riding a trolley compared to 333 days.

 

[iaincaradoc]

Part 107 is a leisurely walk in the park riding a trolley compared to 333 days.

Indeed. It was why I never bothered to try for a permit/license before Part 107 and my current mobility issues - lower bar, and increased motivation.

I'll note that I also didn't get very far in amateur radio until they dropped the code requirements. I'm one of those people who can do "V" and "SOS" and that's about it. I simply don't have the ear for it. Digital modes, on the other hand... tons of fun.

 

[STLBluesNut]

Very new to this and this forum. As you can see this is my second post here. I am a bit confused as I am just learning. Some say as long as this person never posts the images or video it is recreational. Some even say if he showed some friends or family it could be considered commercial. Does all of this have to do because he is actually in the band at the event? If he were just a fan could he post it?

I guess i ask because I went to a park yesterday evening and flew around and even stopped at a memorial for some pictures and video. I posted one of the quickshots on my Instagram. Would this video possibly encourage someone to go to the park? Perhaps. Would it then be considered commercial?

 

[sar104]

Very new to this and this forum. As you can see this is my second post here. I am a bit confused as I am just learning. Some say as long as this person never posts the images or video it is recreational. Some even say if he showed some friends or family it could be considered commercial. Does all of this have to do because he is actually in the band at the event? If he were just a fan could he post it?

I guess i ask because I went to a park yesterday evening and flew around and even stopped at a memorial for some pictures and video. I posted one of the quickshots on my Instagram. Would this video possibly encourage someone to go to the park? Perhaps. Would it then be considered commercial?

Once again - it's the intent of the flight that matters, not the short- or long-term use of any material you gather. But intent is hard to prove, and so without fairly clear evidence of non-recreational intent you are pretty safe. Your example is unambiguously recreational. The OP's less clear, and so the use that was made of the video could potentially be important - for example if it immediately appeared in the band's promotional material then there might be questions to answer if someone complained to the FAA.

 

[Deleted member 129058]

I am looking into getting my part 107 in the near future. Until then I have questions about footage I'll be taking tonight.

I am a musician in a band that is playing a gig tonight at a private residence. It is one of a few (out of 50 or so) booked shows that didnt cancel due to covid. This one is going to be pretty unique since we will be set up on a stage on a private shorefront, playing towards to the lake where many boats will be anchored up watching our performance.

Anyways, I'd like to get some video footage with my drone during the performance tonight, but am concerned I might be crossing into that grey area between recreational flight, and commercial flight/purposes.

So my questions are:

• If I only post the footage on my personal pages, would that avoid needing to be 107 licensed?

If no:

• When I do get my 107, can i then post/use footage shot before i get licensed if it falls under 107 scenarios?
• Are there ways to share this type of footage without falling under 107 operations?

Thanks in advance for any insight! Just want to share footage of a pretty unique event happening tonight without violating any rules if possible.

One of the rules do not fly near people .
You should not own a drone you should but a mask!

 

[Deleted member 129058]

Well yes and no.

I post media to my personal page that shares with what I'm doing in my life. that is fishing trips, music events that I'm playing in, photography, family events, etc..

I do post about my band and upcoming shows.

Going to call this post answered at this point since any shooting, and sharing of the footage, of this event could circumstantially be interpreted as a commercial mission.

 

[Deleted member 129058]

This is a drone site not a place to show off your band.
Use YouTube !

 

[PhantomFandom]

One of the rules do not fly near people .
You should not own a drone you should but a mask!

Who said anything about flying near people? This thread was all about the need for a Part 107 license. The regulations say that you cannot fly OVER people. There is no provision at all for flying near people. So if I am hovering 10 feet away from you laterally (at any altitude; even 5 feet off the ground) I am legally OK. However if I am directly over your head and even 400 feet up, I am violating the regulations. The distance from the person has no bearing on this discussion.
So why the harsh comment that he should not own a drone? He had the presence of mind to actually ask about the rules instead of just going out there and doing whatever he wants. That is one trait of a good pilot.

This is a drone site not a place to show off your band.
Use YouTube !

He was not showing off his band. He had a legitimate question about the legality of a flight he was planning.

 

[BigAl07]

This is a drone site not a place to show off your band.
Use YouTube !

I think you might have misunderstood the OP's reply. Someone asked about how he posts to his Social Media in relation to the band and he merely answered.

 

[Knight48]

Absolutely HORRIBLE and reckless advice!!

I can tell you FIRST HAND that it's very possible the FAA could come knocking. We have had several members of this forum and on Phantom Pilots to get the phone call, letter, and the Knock-Knock. It's been noted several times that it was most likely information they shared online (here and YT & FB) that got the ball rolling.

I repeat HORRIBLE advice!! Tsk tsk tsk ! ! !

No it's NOT HORRIBLE as you put it! Taking video of a few boats watching a band is NOT horrible MR ADMIN!!!!
Ive been flying a LOOOng long time with Part 107 and YOU don't know what youre talking about Admin or not.
SO go ahead and kick me out if you want like your email said, I'm just stating my opinion ok?

 

[BigAl07]

No it's NOT HORRIBLE as you put it! Taking video of a few boats watching a band is NOT horrible MR ADMIN!!!!

YES suggesting someone violate Federal Regulations (while you're sitting safely behind a keyboard with NO skin in their game what so ever) is an absolutely HORRIBLE idea.

Ive been flying a LOOOng long time with Part 107 and YOU don't know what youre talking about Admin or not.
SO go ahead and kick me out if you want like your email said, I'm just stating my opinion ok?

The EMAIL was in relation to you calling out another member and NOT a topic for discussing on the open forum. Go back to your PM... I'm not asking!!

I do happen to know what I'm talking about.... I have roughly 46 YEARS of sUAS experience although we called them R/C aircraft. I am also a Manned Pilot, an FAA Representative, I work with sUAS for a living, and I teach sUAS operations both locally and around the southeastern US.

If you'd like I can go even deeper into my credentials but I'm pretty sure you get the idea here.

 

[Knight48]

Absolutely HORRIBLE and reckless advice!!

I can tell you FIRST HAND that it's very possible the FAA could come knocking. We have had several members of this forum and on Phantom Pilots to get the phone call, letter, and the Knock-Knock. It's been noted several times that it was most likely information they shared online (here and YT & FB) that got the ball rolling.

I repeat HORRIBLE advice!! Tsk tsk tsk ! ! !

Yeh possible
BUT NOT LIKELY in this case

 

[sar104]

YES suggesting someone violate Federal Regulations (while you're sitting safely behind a keyboard with NO skin in their game what so ever) is an absolutely HORRIBLE idea.

Typical internet behavior though. Ignorant talk is cheap.

 

[PhantomFandom]

No it's NOT HORRIBLE as you put it! Taking video of a few boats watching a band is NOT horrible MR ADMIN!!!!
Ive been flying a LOOOng long time with Part 107 and YOU don't know what youre talking about Admin or not.
SO go ahead and kick me out if you want like your email said, I'm just stating my opinion ok?

The fact that Al is an admin here has absolutely no bearing on the topic at hand, so stop making personal attacks please. There is a way to have CIVIL conversations without making personal attacks.

In this case your advice was horrible. If YOU want to disregard FAA regulations to fly whenever you want and wherever you want then that is your choice and your prerogative. However to give that advice to someone else is not only terrible, but bordering on criminal. Just because you haven't been caught and just because you think it is OK, does not make it alright for the OP to disregard regulations.

Would you pay his fines and legal fees if the FAA did have a problem with his flight? I did not see that offer in your response to the OP.

Remember this is not a conversation about the merits of Part 107 and recreational exclusion. Sure there are many of us that think the distinction between the two is silly. However until and if the regulations change, we all need to follow them. The advice given to the OP by most (excluding you) was correct in that he was entering Commercial Part 107 territory and should not do it.

 

[51 Drones]

Essentially one of my friends who is an instructor and pilot who teaches 107 courses told me this for example about flying tonight for fireworks for an example....maybe it will help explain what you can do a bit in your situation.

" You have to decide before you fly and once you choose the rules to follow, you can't use the footage for commercial purposes.
So in this case, I'm guessing people want to fly at night to get firework. As long as you're not flying in controlled airspace, you can fly without a waiver as a hobbyist, but can't use the footage commercially. Flying in controlled airspace at night as a hobbyist is not allowed."

So as someone who has their 107 which I do....if I go fly tonight I have to decide if for hobbyist or do I plan on selling my shots, etc. and legally you can't do both unless you get a waiver to fly at night as a 107 pilot nothing you can do with the footage other than have for yourself. Maybe this helps.

Part of this statement is actually incorrect. A recreational pilot can fly in controlled airspace at night with LAANC approval. It's a common misconception that hobbyists can't fly at night, because it seems quite backwards that a hobbyist has more freedom than a commercial pilot.

 

[dawgpilot]

Part of this statement is actually incorrect. A recreational pilot can fly in controlled airspace at night with LAANC approval. It's a common misconception that hobbyists can't fly at night, because it seems quite backwards that a hobbyist has more freedom than a commercial pilot.

I don't think LAANC is available at night.

 

[Fred Garvin]

...It's a common misconception that hobbyists can't fly at night, because it seems quite backward that a hobbyist has more freedom than a commercial pilot.

This misconception floats to the surface occasionally. On another forum, we had a really long discussion over it. A lot of back and forth and it boiled down to posting quotes of the regs and a challenge to "show me where it says...."

Turns out that AirMap, when authorizing airspace flights, has the statement to "Not fly at night"... Now, we know Airmap is not the "authority" on the matter, the FAA is... but it seems this is where a lot of this confusion stems from... an inaccurate statement from Airmap that has taken root as an authoritative statement.

At least, that's where we finally boiled it down to...

 

[BigAl07]

Part of this statement is actually incorrect. A recreational pilot can fly in controlled airspace at night with LAANC approval. It's a common misconception that hobbyists can't fly at night, because it seems quite backwards that a hobbyist has more freedom than a commercial pilot.

No that's not correct. LAANC does not give and the FAA does not grant Night Flights via the portal "currently" for any sUAS operations. LAANC+ Night Flight = prohibited right now.

 

[lookout]

No that's not correct. LAANC does not give and the FAA does not grant Night Flights via the portal "currently" for any sUAS operations. LAANC+ Night Flight = prohibited right now.

What if the moon is turning night into day?

Oh well, I tried taking a picture with my smart phone of the moonlight on the ground. It couldn't see anything.