Part 107 vs recreational rules

[Booz]

I am looking into getting my part 107 in the near future. Until then I have questions about footage I'll be taking tonight.

I am a musician in a band that is playing a gig tonight at a private residence. It is one of a few (out of 50 or so) booked shows that didnt cancel due to covid. This one is going to be pretty unique since we will be set up on a stage on a private shorefront, playing towards to the lake where many boats will be anchored up watching our performance.

Anyways, I'd like to get some video footage with my drone during the performance tonight, but am concerned I might be crossing into that grey area between recreational flight, and commercial flight/purposes.

So my questions are:

• If I only post the footage on my personal pages, would that avoid needing to be 107 licensed?

If no:

• When I do get my 107, can i then post/use footage shot before i get licensed if it falls under 107 scenarios?
• Are there ways to share this type of footage without falling under 107 operations?

Thanks in advance for any insight! Just want to share footage of a pretty unique event happening tonight without violating any rules if possible.

 

[sar104]

Not sure about grey - it's going to be very hard to argue that you were flying recreationally when the entire purpose was to get video of your performance. If you don't publish the video then almost certainly not a problem provided you don't crash into someone or something while flying, but any use of it, even on your personal pages, is going to spoil that argument.

And unfortunately that doesn't change after you get your Part 107, because it is the intent of the flight at the time that matters, not the use of the material (that's not regulated by Part 107 - it's only a measure of whether the flight was recreational), and commercial use would still clearly make it a Part 107 flight when you were not licensed to do that.

 

[Ty Pilot]

You're gonna get answer's all over the place with these questions, HERE is a link to the FAA User Identification Tool - basically just answer the questions honestly and see what it says.

 

[sar104]

You're gonna get answer's all over the place with these questions, HERE is a link to the FAA User Identification Tool - basically just answer the questions honestly and see what it says.

Why do people make simple questions out to be complicated? And that is an annoyingly useless tool. For example, answering no to business use and no to recreational purpose (a generous interpretation in this case) yields the following:



Answer = "No."

No what?

 

[AtortPhotography]

I am looking into getting my part 107 in the near future. Until then I have questions about footage I'll be taking tonight.

I am a musician in a band that is playing a gig tonight at a private residence. It is one of a few (out of 50 or so) booked shows that didnt cancel due to covid. This one is going to be pretty unique since we will be set up on a stage on a private shorefront, playing towards to the lake where many boats will be anchored up watching our performance.

Anyways, I'd like to get some video footage with my drone during the performance tonight, but am concerned I might be crossing into that grey area between recreational flight, and commercial flight/purposes.

So my questions are:

• If I only post the footage on my personal pages, would that avoid needing to be 107 licensed?

If no:

• When I do get my 107, can i then post/use footage shot before i get licensed if it falls under 107 scenarios?
• Are there ways to share this type of footage without falling under 107 operations?

Thanks in advance for any insight! Just want to share footage of a pretty unique event happening tonight without violating any rules if possible.

Essentially one of my friends who is an instructor and pilot who teaches 107 courses told me this for example about flying tonight for fireworks for an example....maybe it will help explain what you can do a bit in your situation.

" You have to decide before you fly and once you choose the rules to follow, you can't use the footage for commercial purposes.
So in this case, I'm guessing people want to fly at night to get firework. As long as you're not flying in controlled airspace, you can fly without a waiver as a hobbyist, but can't use the footage commercially. Flying in controlled airspace at night as a hobbyist is not allowed."

So as someone who has their 107 which I do....if I go fly tonight I have to decide if for hobbyist or do I plan on selling my shots, etc. and legally you can't do both unless you get a waiver to fly at night as a 107 pilot nothing you can do with the footage other than have for yourself. Maybe this helps.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Why do people make simple questions out to be complicated? And that is an annoyingly useless tool. For example, answering no to business use and no to recreational purpose (a generous interpretation in this case) yields the following:

View attachment 106858

Answer = "No."

No what?

Would his band not be a commercial enterprise if he is getting compensated?

 

[Booz]

Thanks for the link. I think my confusion is coming from the 'are you flying for business, enterprise, etc.., or for recreational (enjoyment)' question.

I not getting paid to fly my drone. I'm getting paid for the performance. I would be flying for (enjoyment) recreation during the performance so I could share it with friends and family on social media. But my perspective on what is considered recreation in this sense, is probably not the same as the FAAs perspective.

I'm pretty sure if that footage ended up being used by my band for promotional purposes, that would indeed be under 107 (which I've told them is a no no until I get my 107)

 

[AtortPhotography]

Thanks for the link. I think my confusion is coming from the 'are you flying for business, enterprise, etc.., or for recreational (enjoyment)' question.

I not getting paid to fly my drone. I'm getting paid for the performance. I would be flying for (enjoyment) recreation during the performance so I could share it with friends and family on social media. But my perspective on what is considered recreation in this sense, is probably not the same as the FAAs perspective.

I'm pretty sure if that footage ended up being used by my band for promotional purposes, that would indeed be under 107 (which I've told them is a no no until I get my 107)

Sounds like you should be good to me as long as not flying over the crowd.

 

[sar104]

Would his band not be a commercial enterprise if he is getting compensated?

That's the slightly lighter shade of black - because it's the purpose of the flight that matters, not necessarily the nature of the event. You can certainly fly recreationally and capture photos and video of a commercial event - as long as you don't intend the material to further that, or any other business.

 

[Booz]

Would his band not be a commercial enterprise if he is getting compensated?

I'm not being compensated for anything I'm doing with the drone tonight.

I'm being compensated for playing music.

Simply trying to capture a cool experience in my musical life that I wish to share later. I just dont know if the FAA would indirectly consider that sharing of the footage as 'commerical' purposes

I appreciate the dialogue either way! Just trying to do the right thing.

 

[Ty Pilot]

Thanks for the link. I think my confusion is coming from the 'are you flying for business, enterprise, etc.., or for recreational (enjoyment)' question.

I not getting paid to fly my drone. I'm getting paid for the performance. I would be flying for (enjoyment) recreation during the performance so I could share it with friends and family on social media. But my perspective on what is considered recreation in this sense, is probably not the same as the FAAs perspective.

I'm pretty sure if that footage ended up being used by my band for promotional purposes, that would indeed be under 107 (which I've told them is a no no until I get my 107)

Thats the point, your band is being compensated and you want to get footage to support that, thus your purpose for that flight is commercial. Beyond that there is another issue - you want to fly at night, even if you had a 107 you would need a waiver to do so.

 

[sar104]

Thanks for the link. I think my confusion is coming from the 'are you flying for business, enterprise, etc.., or for recreational (enjoyment)' question.

I not getting paid to fly my drone. I'm getting paid for the performance. I would be flying for (enjoyment) recreation during the performance so I could share it with friends and family on social media. But my perspective on what is considered recreation in this sense, is probably not the same as the FAAs perspective.

I'm pretty sure if that footage ended up being used by my band for promotional purposes, that would indeed be under 107 (which I've told them is a no no until I get my 107)

You are worrying about the wrong issue. You can certainly fly recreationally and take video. The issue is the purpose of the video. If it genuinely is just to share with family and friends then you can argue recreational flight.

 

[Camino Ken]

Just curious, how are you going to fly and play at the same time?

 

[Booz]

Thats the point, your band is being compensated and you want to get footage to support that, thus your purpose for that flight is commercial. Beyond that there is another issue - you want to fly at night, even if you had a 107 you would need a waiver to do so.

Are we being compensated for drone footage? No

Are we being compensated to play music?
Yes

Do I plan on using said footage to promote my band?

No, but the FAA being the authority on that I dont really know where this flight lands on their spectrum. Thus, I'm asking for others perspectives too!

 

[Booz]

Just curious, how are you going to fly and play at the same time?

We have a few songs where I'm not playing anything for 3-5 minutes (bass player).

So I am thinking I could do an orbit quickshot during that time.

 

[Booz]

Or even just taking shots during set break of the stage in the foreground and lake + audience in their boats in the background

 

[PhantomFandom]

Are we being compensated for drone footage? No

Are we being compensated to play music?
Yes

The fact that you are not being compensated for drone footage means absolutely nothing. That has zero dtermination on the intent of the flight.

The fact that you are filming your band and that video could help your band, makes it commercial. If you have no intent of using it for publicizing your band then it may fall under recreational. It depends on where your post the video. if it is just for you then it is recreational. If you only show it to select friends and family who already know of your band then "most likely" recreational. As soon as it is seen by others who might then be interested in your band because of the video, it is 100% commercial.

If it then does fall under commercial, you have another problem that you are not allowed to fly at night under Part 107.

 

[PhantomFandom]

We have a few songs where I'm not playing anything for 3-5 minutes (bass player).

So I am thinking I could do an orbit quickshot during that time.

To me this sounds like a very bad idea. Flying a drone or any aerial craft while under a time constraint (and in this case in the dark) is a good way to have an accident. 3 to 5 minutes is no time at all considering the drone startup, pre-flight checks, obtaining GPS Home Lock, flying, setting up the shot, and bringing it back safely.

 

[sar104]

The fact that you are not being compensated for drone footage means absolutely nothing. That has zero dtermination on the intent of the flight.

The fact that you are filming your band and that video could help your band, makes it commercial. If you have no intent of using it for publicizing your band then it may fall under recreational. It depends on where your post the video. if it is just for you then it is recreational. If you only show it to select friends and family who already know of your band then "most likely" recreational. As soon as it is seen by others who might then be interested in your band because of the video, it is 100% commercial.

If it then does fall under commercial, you have another problem that you are not allowed to fly at night under Part 107.

Of course it doesn't really matter that you are not allowed to fly at night without a daylight operations waiver under Part 107 if you are not qualified to fly under Part 107 to begin with.

 

[Booz]

The fact that you are not being compensated for drone footage means absolutely nothing. That has zero dtermination on the intent of the flight.

The fact that you are filming your band and that video could help your band, makes it commercial. If you have no intent of using it for publicizing your band then it may fall under recreational. It depends on where your post the video. if it is just for you then it is recreational. If you only show it to select friends and family who already know of your band then "most likely" recreational. As soon as it is seen by others who might then be interested in your band because of the video, it is 100% commercial.

If it then does fall under commercial, you have another problem that you are not allowed to fly at night under Part 107.

You hit that 'grey area' I was talking about right on the head.

I cant control who shares the pics or videos (to their friends/followers who dont already know about my band) posted on my personal social media pages, where other people may or may not be motivated to check out my band who would not have done so without the footage.

Even if it was only posted to my personal page and without reference to my band, people can likely connect the dots at that point if they dont already know about my band.

Thanks for your feedback.

Sounding like I probably should just use my drone for fireworks at this point.