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Permission from ENAC for flying over Venice canals in Italy?

niki

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Have some one got a permission from ENAC for flying in Venice, Italy?

According ENAC, Venice is a Prohibited flying zone. There are also 2 airport zones overlaping there and also a CTR zone, so I'm getting confused how to apply? Because from what I read for applying to fly in the "speciffic category" over prohibited zone should be used ATM-03 Circular but for flying around airports should be used ATM-09A Circular. Do I have to send both applications or this whole stuff is included and explained in a single application?

Additionally flying in urban areas is covered by PDRA-S01 scenario (overflown area - Controlled ground area that might be located in a populated area) but this scenario doesn't mention the flying in Prohibited zone located in urban area, so do I still apply for authorization for the specific category with PDRA scenario or will have to make my own SORA? Can someone explain the procedure if he went trough it?

And finally there is big possibility to take off and land on a boat, but then the PDRA-S01 doesn't fit as it strictly says that the pilot should not be in a moving vehicle. Now what, what should I do to get all those permissions (flying in urban, prohibited zone from a boat)?

I have read hundreds of pages on EASA as well on ENAC sites and it's already a total mess in my head, so please excuse me if you find my questions too lame ? would love to hear some advices. Thanks!
 

pmbernal3

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Hello,

Did you ever figure out how to gain flying access to this region in Venice, Italy? I am also having trouble understanding any of this and hope you’d be able to help if you found what you’re looking for. Ty.
 

niki

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Hello, unfortunatelly it's very complicated. The research time and the ultimate slow and lame communication with ENAC forced me to deny the offer as it was looking extremely unsure what will happen and if it happen I'll be notified by ENAC just a few days before the activity tooks place and that was unacceptable for the producer who wanted to hire me for his film production. The producer then look for some local guys to do the drone work but at the end it didn't happen with the locals as well but I don't know the details.

You need to apply to ENAC, 30 or 40 days before the activity. They answer a few days before the activity. In my case after 3 weeks waiting I've got a reply from ENAC telling me that I have a typo in one of the islands names. I replied that they are correct and I mean that exact same island but didn't got future reply from them. 3 weeks after I wrote another email to ENAC, so far 2 months passed and there is no reply on any of the emails.

Here is what I learned from all this, first you have to temporary register at d-flight.it, there you can apply and get UAS operator ID, you have to pay a fee for that, then you should register your drone as commercial one and they'll give you a "plate" number for the drone, that cost 94 euro if I'm not mistaken. From this site you also have easy access to the official maps with zones and short info and etc. After you have your operator and drone ID's you can create flight plans in d-flight and make them public so the other UAS users can see that there is activity planned by someone in the certain area. If the zone is under Open category then you just have to inform the local police department prior your activity. But if you're going to fly in prohibited zone like Venice, then you must send email to ENAC with one of the ATM's filled in and all corresponding documents like operation manual and other stuff that corresponds to your operation like some of the PDRA's for predefined scenarios and etc. On top of all for sending email to ENAC you need PEC registered email address, it doesn't work from regular emails. This is a service that many Italian companies provide and it's paid of course, I found one that have fisrt 6 months for free register.it At the end if you are from foreign EU state you'll have to apply to your state's aviation authorities too for the same activity, it is supposed that you already have EASA ID registration and A2 license issued in your state prior all other stuff.

Good luck!
 

heyengel

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I'm looking at the D-flight.it website and there is a yellow zone in the Giardini area which appears to me that flight below 25 meters is allowed. Have you looked into this? There is an open max height of 25m and the geographical area no fly zone is defined as 25 m above the ground. Screen Shot 2022-06-21 at 5.19.00 PM.png
 

Cymru

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I'm looking at the D-flight.it website and there is a yellow zone in the Giardini area which appears to me that flight below 25 meters is allowed. Have you looked into this? There is an open max height of 25m and the geographical area no fly zone is defined as 25 m above the ground. View attachment 150459
Still not allowed - "UAS Operations of the Open Category are Prohibited within the area"

As a normal user, you'll be operating in open category A1/A2/A3.

So need specific authorisations and permits (and those cost thousands of euros).
 

heyengel

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Still not allowed - "UAS Operations of the Open Category are Prohibited within the area"

As a normal user, you'll be operating in open category A1/A2/A3.

So need specific authorisations and permits (and those cost thousands of euros).


Please read the air rules carefully. The geographical area is defined as "25 meters above the ground". The Open Category is prohibited within the geographical area which is above 25 m AGL, not below.

The open max height is shown as 25m.
 

heyengel

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Still not allowed - "UAS Operations of the Open Category are Prohibited within the area"

As a normal user, you'll be operating in open category A1/A2/A3.

So need specific authorisations and permits (and those cost thousands of euros).

See this thread. Someone contacted Venice police and confirmed.

 

Cymru

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Not buying that. Have seen official confirmation of other issues.
Also don't forget D-Fly is only showing airspace restrictions. There are local government regulations prohibiting operation from the whole city as well.
Fines are into the thousands if caught.
 

Cymru

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Please read the air rules carefully. The geographical area is defined as "25 meters above the ground". The Open Category is prohibited within the geographical area which is above 25 m AGL, not below.

The open max height is shown as 25m.
You're completely ignoring the local government restrictions on operating at all from within the city.
 

heyengel

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You're completely ignoring the local government restrictions on operating at all from within the city.

Where are these local rules that you speak of? How can we follow rules if they are not published? I've been in Venice for 3 weeks and local drone rules are quite rare.

Let's make this a friendly discussion based on facts.
 

Cymru

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Friendly discussion based on facts
(i) There are prohibitions on operations of all uas without permits in the entire city of Venice
(ii) This supercedes ENAC airspace rules
(iii) Confirmed this myself last week when there
(iv) Fines can be 20k euros or more.
 

heyengel

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Friendly discussion based on facts
(i) There are prohibitions on operations of all uas without permits in the entire city of Venice
(ii) This supercedes ENAC airspace rules
(iii) Confirmed this myself last week when there
(iv) Fines can be 20k euros or more.

How did you confirm this? I would like to read the regulations for my own education. Grazie.
 
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Cymru

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Confirmed via Italian contacts in the port authority who asked local government for the ruling.

Best bit likely to be going that route for the full paperwork.
 

Aerophile

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If you are in Venice, look up at the sky. Do you see a lot of drones zipping around? If yes, then it's probably OK to fly there. If not, it's likely that flying drones completely prohibited there, with very high fines, and that prohibition is probably actively enforced by local police.

If it was not prohibited (or if the prohibition was not enforced), somebody (in fact, many people) would be flying around, and you would see them.

It's not like Venice does not receive a lot of visitors, including plenty of tourists who own (and have brought along) drones.

In any place that is popular with tourists, where drones are not strictly prohibited, there will be lots of drones flying around.
 

heyengel

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If you are in Venice, look up at the sky. Do you see a lot of drones zipping around? If yes, then it's probably OK to fly there. If not, it's likely that flying drones completely prohibited there, with very high fines, and that prohibition is probably actively enforced by local police.

If it was not prohibited (or if the prohibition was not enforced), somebody (in fact, many people) would be flying around, and you would see them.

It's not like Venice does not receive a lot of visitors, including plenty of tourists who own (and have brought along) drones.

In any place that is popular with tourists, where drones are not strictly prohibited, there will be lots of drones flying around.


I saw someone flying a drone and landed in Piazza San Marco.

I live in San Francisco where it's legal to fly drones with lots of, as you say, tourists who brought drones, and I don't see many drones flying around.

Unfortunately, your method is not useful for me.
 

heyengel

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Confirmed via Italian contacts in the port authority who asked local government for the ruling.

Best bit likely to be going that route for the full paperwork.

Is this a secret law or something? It would really be helpful if they published this information and also how to get the local permit.
 

niki

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Italy is a mess for foreigns.

First of all, for flying legaly in Italy, one have to register in their online platform D-Flight. There is no option for foreign pilots that already have an existing operator ID and licenses that are issued in their country of living/residence.

But then according to EASA, UAS operator can be registered only in one state and he should have only one ID, issuing a second ID in another state is ilegal!

Summarizing this turns out that foreign UAS operator cannot use his existing license legaly in Italy. Also if one is commercial pilot and have liability insurance, it is usually linked to the UAS operator ID (the one he have from his state of residence). In other words one have to register a new italian UAS operator ID, then if he's going to fly commercially he need insurance and for that he need to apply for A1/A2/A3 certificates and then to purchase a new insurance for the new UAS operator ID that's only for the job while flying in Italy ( for me it had to be 2-3 days), this usually costs as much as the insurance I have for all my drones for a full year. This is what I've got as info from the support of D-Flight. They told me when I finish the job should go to D-Flight and de-register my UAS operator ID, then my original ID would be active again. On my question about EASA rules related to multiple ID is ilegal, they said nothing. Also I had to pay to D-Fligh for answering my questions. That's how their support works.

Next is ENAC, for communicating with them one need to have registered PEC email address in Itally. Those are linked to person's ID and the emails that you send from there are threated as official documents by the goverment institutions. After a lot of diging I found a free service where I registered. Then I wrote to ENAC to ask them exactly for the yellow zone where it's open category with limit of 25m. After about a month I've got answer from them and the answer was that I have a typo in my request, and that's it. Unfortunatelly I was typed Burino instead of Burano island. And that was all from them. Of course I have replied to them confirming that I'm talking about Burano (nevermind I also had attached map with diagrams what I plan to do over Burano in the first mail). So I never got a reply to my request, It's almost a year now and I'm still waiting ENAC to wake up.

As it passed almost a year now, I don't know if some changes are implemented. Would love to hear other stories and probably will be really happy to hear a successful ones.

Safe flying!
 
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