Poll: Restricted flight in Firmware .800

[namja]

Yeah, the dilemma is pre-fetch can't do anything about TFRs that hit the DB after your pre-fetch.

Imagine you do everything right, pre-plan and get everything (maps, NFZs, etc.) preloaded. Then you go off to fly and turns out the POTUS has decided on a whim to go visit the winery you were planning to shoot.

Your system does not get updated with the TFR that was unanticipated, you go up and fly, and then spend 2 years in prison (probably not, but you get the point).

I'm not arguing in favor of DJIs system, just pointing out that if you ARE going to implement a system like this, there are all sorts of holes in it that force all other kinds of annoying, restrictive hoops to jump through just to take off, like having to have an internet connection.

True about TFR. But at least your Mavic will take off and you'll be able to fly if the TFR comes after you updated the NFZ map.

TFR is a really tricky problem with so many potential issues. I'm hoping that if you updated within the last 24 hours, then you should be good. At least prevent you from a misdemeanor.

 

[namja]

Mavic, fvk around wherever you go.

Shouldn't have to be creative, shouldn't have to be a pain in the butt. What a joke

Then don't update! Easy peasy.

Again, 99% of the time, this is a non-issue. And for the reckless hooligans out there, I'm glad it's a pain in the butt.

 

[NaiveFlight]

Then don't update! Easy peasy.

Again, 99% of the time, this is a non-issue. And for the reckless hooligans out there, I'm glad it's a pain in the butt.

I wish I hadn't, I trusted all the posters that said the new update had no restrictions..

 

[nickmavic]

Then don't update! Easy peasy.

Again, 99% of the time, this is a non-issue. And for the reckless hooligans out there, I'm glad it's a pain in the butt.

Tell that to new purchasers that already have the latest firmware. Look, I don't mean to be mean, but it seems like yall are finding ways to avoid placing the blame on issues with DJI, and furthermore either classify us as law-abiding (and therefore somehow incapable of being negatively affected) or just total dirtbags. It's ridiculous.

We've already got folks flying responsibly over a large body of water who then had their drone sunk due to a surprise NFZ (which is totally unacceptable), and we've got plenty of folks who are now locked out of using their drone in the middle of nowhere due to lack of internet. I guess those folks fall under your 1% that are hooligans?

The bottom line is that the latest firmware creates unacceptable risk of drone loss and requires work that shouldn't be required, in order to fly. Nowhere in the product advertising or EULA does it state that I'm required to have an internet connection to fly. Sure I can not upgrade, but anyone who buys a new Mavic not only doesn't have that option, but unless the product box has changed, they're now being lied to by DJI and given a crippled drone without advanced notice --- only once they open the box, fire up the software, etc.

I'm expecting the response to once again be "then dont upgrade", which completely ignores the point. And if you think for a second that DJI is going to continue to allow for firmware downgrades, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

Hell, we can simplify this down to 1 statement: If I can fly with X features on a DJI Mavic, why can't the next guy? We've got different rules for different folks at different times in the exact same places, and if that's not alarming, I don't know what is. If I can fly in spot X with 400 firmware and the guy next to me with 800 can't because it magically now claims he's in an NFZ that I'm NOT in (yet we're beside each other), then we have a serious problem.

Either get NFZ right, or ditch it. Period.

 

[NaiveFlight]

Tell that to new purchasers that already have the latest firmware. Look, I don't mean to be mean, but it seems like yall are finding ways to avoid placing the blame on issues with DJI, and furthermore either classify us as law-abiding or just total dirtbags. It's ridiculous.

We've already got folks flying responsibly over a large body of water who then had their drone sunk due to a surprise NFZ (which is totally unacceptable), and we've got plenty of folks who are now locked out of using their drone in the middle of nowhere due to lack of internet. I guess those folks fall under your 1% that are hooligans?

The bottom line is that the latest firmware places unacceptable risk of drone loss and requires work that shouldn't be required, in order to fly. Nowhere in the product advertising or EULA does it state that I'm required to have an internet connection to fly. Sure I can not upgrade, but anyone who buys a new Mavic not only doesn't have that option, but unless the product box has changed, they're now being lied to by DJI and given a crippled drone without advanced notice --- only once they open the box, fire up the software, etc.

I'm expecting the response to once again be "then dont upgrade", which completely ignores the point. And if you think for a second that DJI is going to continue to allow for firmware downgrades, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

****, we can simplify this down to 1 statement: If I can fly with X features on a DJI Mavic, why can't the next guy? We've got different rules for different folks at different times in the exact same places, and if that's not alarming, I don't know what is. If I can fly in spot X with 400 firmware and the guy next to me with 800 can't because it magically now claims he's in an NFZ that I'm NOT in (yet we're beside each other), then we have a serious problem.

Either get NFZ right, or ditch it. Period.

Well said. But lots of users are just dumb, they won't understand

 

[MrStark]

Okay okay. So, I'm reading mixed reviews on this new update. Is it good or is it bad? Will my drone just land once it enters a NFZ? Will my drone fly into outer space? Can someone set the record straight? Thanks

 

[namja]

Tell that to new purchasers that already have the latest firmware. Look, I don't mean to be mean, but it seems like yall are finding ways to avoid placing the blame on issues with DJI, and furthermore either classify us as law-abiding (and therefore somehow incapable of being negatively affected) or just total dirtbags. It's ridiculous.

We've already got folks flying responsibly over a large body of water who then had their drone sunk due to a surprise NFZ (which is totally unacceptable), and we've got plenty of folks who are now locked out of using their drone in the middle of nowhere due to lack of internet. I guess those folks fall under your 1% that are hooligans?

The sinking drone is completely unacceptable if it was due to the new firmware. Agreed. Everything else you wrote above has nothing to do with what I wrote. That use case is <1% where you'll actually be stuck in beginner mode, and that has nothing to do with dirtbags or hooligans. That is part of a different comment, i.e. this update prevents hooligans from doing stupid things which will end up hurting responsible pilots.

The bottom line is that the latest firmware creates unacceptable risk of drone loss and requires work that shouldn't be required, in order to fly. Nowhere in the product advertising or EULA does it state that I'm required to have an internet connection to fly. Sure I can not upgrade, but anyone who buys a new Mavic not only doesn't have that option, but unless the product box has changed, they're now being lied to by DJI and given a crippled drone without advanced notice --- only once they open the box, fire up the software, etc.

I'm expecting the response to once again be "then dont upgrade", which completely ignores the point. And if you think for a second that DJI is going to continue to allow for firmware downgrades, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

Anyone buying a new drone should know of these restrictions now. Everyone has been given advanced notice now with the introduction of this firmware.

If you are on .700 or lower, you will FOREVER be able to keep that without ever upgrading. Nothing DJI can do about it.

****, we can simplify this down to 1 statement: If I can fly with X features on a DJI Mavic, why can't the next guy? We've got different rules for different folks at different times in the exact same places, and if that's not alarming, I don't know what is. If I can fly in spot X with 400 firmware and the guy next to me with 800 can't because it magically now claims he's in an NFZ that I'm NOT in (yet we're beside each other), then we have a serious problem.

Either get NFZ right, or ditch it. Period.

That is a problem. But it's not a problem just with .800 firmware. If you're in a NFZ and you can fly with .400, then that is as big a problem.

I'm not defending DJI in any means. ALL of their firmwares have one issue or another. With .800 firmware, DJI needs to further fix this issue so that you don't have to keep downloading new NFZ updates. And they need a better mechanism then landing the drone on water because it somehow enters a NFZ (like reversing the route it took to get there).

 

[Anthonyk]

I'm not getting where people are getting you need internet to fly. I'm on the new firmware and fly with a iPad mini 2. I can turn off all internet connections and put it in airplane mode. Link up to the controller and mavic with no restrictions.

 

[Michael Ainsworth]

And don't fall into the trap of making a fact out of supposition.
One person here posted about a forced Landing into water.
There are a few suggestions about why it happened.
Another posted about apparently not being able to take off after travelling to a different area.
Many thousands of Mavics are out there.
So far there has not as yet been a mass outcry from them.
I have upgraded, so far no problems.
In a couple of weeks I am out camping travelling about 3500 kilometres round trip and going to places with no phone/internet coverage.
So in my personal experience I will know absolutely how this affects me.

 

[dwallersv]

And they need a better mechanism then landing the drone on water because it somehow enters a NFZ (like reversing the route it took to get there).

This has been a heated topic for some time in the Phantom groups. It's not only a problem over water -- there's also a chance of property damage or worse injuring someone when it comes down on it's own over land without anyone in control.

The problem is with the FAA, however, not DJI. The regulations, as they stand right now, do not allow for flight in an NFZ, any flight, regardless of the purpose. DJI interprets this to mean that flying out of the DJI is just as much a violation.

If the FAA would issue a new regulation specifically for sUAVs that allow them either reverse path or fly the shortest straightline out I expect DJI would make it work that way. They don't want us losing our aircraft either.

 

[namja]

I'm not getting where people are getting you need internet to fly. I'm on the new firmware and fly with a iPad mini 2. I can turn off all internet connections and put it in airplane mode. Link up to the controller and mavic with no restrictions.

As can I. And I can drive to all my regular flying spots, and the app never asks me to download anything. And I can fly in airplane mode. But that is not what the "outcry" is about.

The issue (as pointed out by @NaiveFlight) could occur if you go into a new area. If your app does not have the NFZ information for this new area, then it will try to download this information. If you decline or if you cannot download because of lack of Internet, then your flight may be limited to 30m/50m. I don't know how big each "area" is, but I've driven 20 miles east from my house and didn't have to update anything. I went 35 miles west to visit a friend, and the app asked me to do the NFZ update.

Furthermore, this might not be limited just to new areas. This firmware is too new so we don't know all the specifics yet. Maybe it is also restricted with time so that if it's been over 10 days since the last NFZ update, then it might require an update. Or maybe just whenever DJI decides to push the NFZ update. And we don't know exactly how it deals with TFR. Basically still a lot of unknowns with regards to the way the NFZ update is treated by the app.

Try going somewhere far. Again, I don't know how far you have to go, but somewhere you haven't flown in before and maybe 50 miles from your home. There is a good chance that your app will require a NFZ update.

 

[Michael Ainsworth]

I thought that DJI wouldn't allow flight into a NFZ in the first place.
I also agree that if by some mistake, app crash and reboot finding itself in a NFZ , then it should do RTH automatically. Instead of forced landing, a forced return home.

 

[EsiMavic]

For now i can still fly even if im 9km away from the airport i dont where to fly if dji implements the 20-40 km polygon "radius"

 

[namja]

I thought that DJI wouldn't allow flight into a NFZ in the first place.
I also agree that if by some mistake, app crash and reboot finding itself in a NFZ , then it should do RTH automatically. Instead of forced landing, a forced return home.

That is correct, but that is not the crux of the issue. The issue is with the app asking for NFZ updates. There are reports that with the new firmware, the app on your smartphone does checks to make sure that you have the latest NFZ information for your area. I have no reason to doubt the anecdotal evidence posted by @NaiveFlight, and I have seen the prompts myself in a new area. We think this is related to the .800 firmware, but it's also possible that this is a software "feature" with the DJI GO 4 app. Or maybe the combination of the two. Still a lot of unknowns since there are many conflicting reports.

 

[NaiveFlight]

That is correct, but that is not the crux of the issue. The issue is with the app asking for NFZ updates. There are reports that with the new firmware, the app on your smartphone does checks to make sure that you have the latest NFZ information for your area. I have no reason to doubt the anecdotal evidence posted by @NaiveFlight, and I have seen the prompts myself in a new area. We think this is related to the .800 firmware, but it's also possible that this is a software "feature" with the DJI GO 4 app. Or maybe the combination of the two. Still a lot of unknowns since there are many conflicting reports.

Yes very very inconvenient.

I'm on FW 800 and my app is 4.1.0

 

[NaiveFlight]

Just to clarify yet again.

This is only an issue when you move your flight area. For example, I travel and hike weekly, many times I go to different states. Usually I hike in remote areas.

(prior to 800 FW I had no issue)

When I go to any new area, the dji app prompts an NFZ zone update, I get 2 options, ignore or accept. If you have web on your phone you hit accept, it downloads super quick and you can fly as usual. If you hit ignore, mavic will only fly similarly to beginners mode. With height/distance limitations.

The issue is.... If I have no web on my phone because I'm out hiking in remote areas.... I csnt update... So I'm stuck with a beginners mode limits...

If I use a tablet that doesn't have web connection then The same thing happens.


Otherwise the 800 FW is just fine, but thus NFZ zone prompts upon boot up of dji app is the issue.

So.... So far, we don't quite know if this is a FW 800 issue or a dji go app.

I used to run 700 with dji app at 4.1.0
Now I run 800 with dji at 4.1.0.

That makes it seem as If it's the FW 800 (it could be) but it could also be just the app pushing it...

 

[deansta]

I used the new updates and havnt had a issue. All batteries update as well.

 

[HFMan]

When I go to any new area, the dji app prompts an NFZ zone update, I get 2 options, ignore or accept. If you have web on your phone you hit accept, it downloads super quick and you can fly as usual. If you hit ignore, mavic will only fly similarly to beginners mode. With height/distance limitations.

My question... what if your phone is in airplane mode and you go to a new area? Have you actually tried this scenario? My suggestion is that maybe Go4 already knows it can't get a new update because it can't phone home. It seems all your tests have been when you DO have internet and you go to a new area.

 

[NaiveFlight]

My question... what if your phone is in airplane mode and you go to a new area? Have you actually tried this scenario? My suggestion is that maybe Go4 already knows it can't get a new update because it can't phone home. It seems all your tests have been when you DO have internet and you go to a new area.

I always put my phone and tablet in airplane mode before I connect it to the controller. But the app still prompts, it seems that maybe it *realizes* your in New location based on the GPS coming off the mavic, when it connects

 

[Robbyg]

I always put my phone and tablet in airplane mode before I connect it to the controller. But the app still prompts, it seems that maybe it *realizes* your in New location based on the GPS coming off the mavic, when it connects

Yes there is no way DJI would leave a big gaping hole like that in the system. It probably looks at the GPS coordinates and then looks to see if you have an NFZ update in memory that matches that area. If it finds one it probably checks the date also to make sure its not expired. If both things don't match up your most likely going to be locked into the beginner mode limits.

Rob