Rant re. DJI FlySafe system + Suggestion for Moderator(s)

[AeroMoPho]

Hello fellow Mavic 2 drone operators. Forgive me, but I just gotta rant. I am not asking for answers or help (just ranting)... and making one small suggestion to moderators.

------------begin rant
Rant: For me, I find it difficult explain in clear words how frustrated I am with the dysfunctional, buggy, irrational and illogical the DJI FlySafe system to be during my 1st 6 weeks of M2P ownership. In the last year, prior to owning a DJI drone, I read numerous stories where folks refer to their grounded DJI drones as $2000 paperweights, etc. but I never really took their gripes seriously (I figured these people were probably just not that bright with respect to technology). Long story-short, I am now one of those people! :-( I have gotten this drone off the ground cleanly/uneventfully about 4 times without flysafe/geofencing/no-fly issues, out of about 8-12 attempts, in the last 6 weeks. There are multiple reasons ( again, I am not asking for answers) but the main reason is that the DJI flysafe system truly sucks! Other reasons are: I happen to live in an area with lots of illogical blue auth. zones (much of which is not FAA CONTROLLED airspace) between Salem OR and Portland OR. Also, another reason is perhaps because my app/display is a non-cellular-activated ipad Mini 2 32gb, (which I teather via bluetooth, to my gorgeous but useless [smart-controller-draining] pixel XL phone) seems to be especially prone to Go4 app problems when onsite and teathered to phone and dealing with auth/unlocking issues. Meanwhile, to add to my frustration in my general area (Portland to Salem) there are numerous areas of controlled, class d and even class c airspace that are only considered "enhanced warning zones" by the geniuses at DJI!! I have seen and witnessed clueless recreational DJI pilots flying their Mavic Pros and Phantom 3s, etc. in both class d and even class c controlled airspace, with no legal permission (other than fact that they are not in DJI's red restricted or dopey blue auth. zones when flying)! This is very frustrating to witness as they wrecklessly buzz over the local dog park each week in Salem, in class D airspace and even in class c airspace in a dog park in Southeast Portland with no FAA authorization whatsoever, other than dopey DJI Go4 app saying click here and "be careful" lol! And i can barely get my drone to fly in uncontrolled airspace! Yes, I am new to the DJI ecosystem (just bought M2P 6 weeks ago), but this is my 4th drone...I am no longer a beginner. I am part 107 certified, have a registered business, insurance , I have flown professionally (side hustle only)...I have an engineering degree and a doctoral-level degree and I must say the last 6 weeks have been the most unenjoyable and frustrating aspect of my experience with drones. It really has soured me to DJI, which we all know unquestionably has the overall best prosumer drone technology in the world, if only you can get them to fly. For me, one day it might be fine and the next day/scenario you are locked down and full or bugs depending on various many factors. But the worst is the unpredictability/unreliability of the system which creates un-necessary stress and emotional tension and really sours me to using this drone on professional shoots because i do NOT know what is going to happen. So, my drone is currently for sale (I bought it used from a good friend, and I will probably sell at a small loss due to recent black-friday-related drop in used M2P prices in last month). That said, I will continue to try to forge onward/work out issues, but really the big issue I can't fix, because it is the DJI system itself that is main cause, IMHO. If I do get my price, this baby is gone, gone, gone! We only have so many hours/days/weeks in this brief life of ours and I would rather have a technically-lesser drone (my autel evo experience has been absolutely amazing and pure joy, for example) and the freedom to fly RESPONSIBLY and LAWFULLY (which I am committed to), than waste dozens of life's precious hours trying to find time-consuming/money-consuming workarounds to this irrational, buggy and unpredictable system. Again, my apologies but i just had to spew. Next time, I will tell you how I really feel, Lol.

------------end of rant

On a positive note, I have scoured quite a bit of good and helpful info. re. this topic here on these forums by using the search tool and reading through the various disparate threads (located all over the forums). Thank you again to all of you who selflessly offer your help/expertise here. I genuinely appreciate it!

Suggestion for moderator(s):
I will close by suggesting that the moderator(s) consider making a dedicated sub-forum somewhere for problems specific to DJI's FlySafe System as these problems seem to be a pretty common reason why folks either avoid and/or sell DJI drones.

Thank you.

 

[Starz]

Question. Why the mini2?

 

[Recoveryone]

Sorry to hear your displeasure, Portland has some awesome areas to fly in (I was a Marine recruiter out of the old Mall 205, 89-92, and I remember the old fort up on the hill, the Columbia River area/falls and I'm sure out by Mt Hood Jr College is a good place to fly.

 

[brettbrandon]

I feel your pain and that has been my rant for about the last year since I bought my M2P. I will be selling mine for the new Evo 2 mostly for two reasons. I refuse to have a Chinese monopoly tell me where I can and can't fly (although I do have NLD), and have also been rather dissapointed with the "fake" Hassleblad camera... Not only that, I think the quality control is terrible. I am on my third M2P because of problems in manufacturing. It should help to sell it as my current replacement M2P only has about 30 mins flight time on it (and NLD).

 

[DanMan32]

It is not necessarily illegal to fly in controlled airspace. One only needs to request authorization through LAANC or DroneZone. LAANC was opened up to hobbyists around late June if I recall, and Dronezone a few months later.

Blue/red zones outside of controlled airspace could be due to NOTAM/TFR or sensitive infrastructure such as power plants and prisons. I agree DJI might not quickly pick up on ones cancelled before original expiration.

A forum for geofence concerns is not a bad idea. However for others to provide insight, the OP would need to provide the area in question, probably within a 1 mile area of actual location.

 

[AeroMoPho]

It is not necessarily illegal to fly in controlled airspace. One only needs to request authorization through LAANC or DroneZone. LAANC was opened up to hobbyists around late June if I recall, and Dronezone a few months later.

Blue/red zones outside of controlled airspace could be due to NOTAM/TFR or sensitive infrastructure such as power plants and prisons. I agree DJI might not quickly pick up on ones cancelled before original expiration.

A forum for geofence concerns is not a bad idea. However for others to provide insight, the OP would need to provide the area in question, probably within a 1 mile area of actual location.

Thanks you Dan. yes, I def. understand the LAANC system and have used it successfully numerous times to fly in controlled airspace (with my Parrot and Autel Drones) in Salem, Portland, Las Vegas, etc. for professional purposes. I did not say it is/was blanketly-illegal to fly in FAA-controlled airspace (for part 107 fliers or recreational fliers)....but it IS illegal to fly in controlled airspace WITHOUT FAA authorization, which the DJI fliers (that I have witnessed) each week do NOT have. How do I know they are not authorized by FAA? I asked them and they just said "no it's fine this is not a no-fly zone". Sorry dude it is class c airspace. Lol! They likely do not even know what controlled airspace is. I only mentioned these relatively-ignorant recreational fliers (I have nothing against them, they are just regular folks) because DJI's website clearly states that the main reason they created the FlySafe system was for primarily concerns they (DJI) had/have about unlicensed amateur/recreational fliers causing havoc with manned aircraft. Yet, the FlySafe system has MANY areas which are in FAA-controlled airspace, yet it is simply (by DJI's crazy analysis) designated as a "warning zone". On the other hand, we have many (perhaps thousands) of cases where professional users, authorized government employees, first-responders can't get their ***-damned DJI drones off the ground in uncontrolled airspace (with no other actual TFRs present), due to the bugginess of the app and general poor design of the system. This is a major problem with the system.

 

[AeroMoPho]

Question. Why the mini2?

Good question. I bought the M2P 6 weeks ago from my good friend who is a professional architectural and drone photographer. He sold the drone because his company that he works for now buys him all his gear and he no longer needed the M2P. I originally tried to use my Pixel XL (has a nice sized display and a nice brightness to it, but then i found out how most android phones (like mine) rapidly-drain the DJI M2P controller's battery (in 45-60 minutes) and are therefore basically unusable. I then spent the first week or two trying a few of the so-called fixes to the battery-draining issue, but nothing I was satisfied with. My friend then offered to sell me his spare iOS device (an iPad mini 2 w/ retina display), since he was not using it anymore and this was the exact device he used (mostly problem-free) with his M2P. But he does NOT live/work in the same geographic area as me and also he had cellular data turned on with it and I am using it tethered to the Pixel XL (in my pocket), because I do not want to pay another 25 bucks per month to have it activated for cellular. So that is why i am using this iOs device.

 

[DanMan32]

I agree "because it's not an NFZ" isn't a good excuse and not legal, a warning or enhanced warning isn't likely to be a major hazard. That's why DJI added to their zones to include authorization and altitude limited zones as well as adding geometric shapes, to better grade the risks.

Looking in your area in Flysafe, the authorization zones for municipal airports may be overreaching if they're not in controlled airspace. I hadn't correlated them with facilities map. They do seem quite long though even as an approach path. But it isn't too difficult to self-unlock authorization zones, but enough that you should be clear in what you might be in conflict.

 

[Starz]

Something to consider may be a newer iPad mini.

Best Tablets and Phones for DJI GO & DJI Fly (Updated Daily) | Phantom Help

Phantom Help is a site for help with DJI Phantom drones. Find the latest fixes, how-tos, guides, accessories, modifications, and more.

www.phantomhelp.com

 

[Starz]

More to read. The processor on the mini 2 is quite a bit slower than these.
Possibly that may have something to do with go4 app part of your dilemma.

Differences Between iPad mini 4 and iPad mini 5: EveryiPad.com

Compares all differences between the iPad mini 4 (2015) and iPad mini 5 (2019). Display, performance, cameras, identifiers and more.

everymac.com

 

[Paulf10]

AeroMoPho, I feel your pain. Your rant was so well written it would be hard not to understand your frustration and aggravation! My question is this.......
I have a MPP and a P4 that I fly often from my home which is within 5 miles of a fighter wing AFB and a civilian regional airport. I have all the latest updates. In order to fly I always need to get authorization and unlocking code. This can be a pain sometimes as it doesn’t always work the same. However I eventually get it to work. As I searched the internet I couldn’t find many others experiencing the same issue as you. I am on the verge of buying an M2P, but after reading your post I’m wondering if the problem you're stating is unique to the M2P and if I’ll run into the same thing.

 

[AeroMoPho]

Something to consider may be a newer iPad mini.

Best Tablets and Phones for DJI GO & DJI Fly (Updated Daily) | Phantom Help

Phantom Help is a site for help with DJI Phantom drones. Find the latest fixes, how-tos, guides, accessories, modifications, and more.

www.phantomhelp.com

Thank you Starz. Yes, I am about 95% certain that ONE SMALL PART of the problem is the data-heavy geo-zone map as I have consistently experienced ridiculously-long delays in loading when trying to use the map while on site with no wifi (tablet is tethered to pixel xl 3 phone via blue tooth). I have loaded almost nothing on the iPad Mini 2 except the DJI Go 4 app and whatever other Apple factory-loaded Apps that can not be eliminated. My best friend used this same iPad mini 2 with this M2P with no problems, but he dealt very little with auth zones (lucky bastard) because of his location and also had data/cell service activated on ipad mini 2 (which I simply refuse to pay for) and yes there have been a few updates to go4 app and geofencing, etc. in last couple months. Funny thing is, i can stream HD youtube videos on the ipad mini 2 with safari just fine while tethered to the phone (with cell data) but I can barely get this stupid dji GeoZone map to load and I must have loaded this map 100 times on my ipad mini in last 4 weeks. I have to wait and wait and wait...sometimes for many minutes (as the drone sits there battery drains). But the system itself also has numerous bugs for sure and it is just designed (or rather it has been cobbled together) very poorly. It is basically like an alternative system to the FAA airspace system and that is their big error, IMHO. DJI should have just stuck to FAA data rather than cobbled together their own "best in class" (lol!) system by picking and choosing which FAA data they "like" or don't like/choose to ignore. I currently have 2 custom-authorized unlocking zones established/created (neither of which are in controlled airspace , btw) and ever since I established these custom-unlockings (which took several days and a half dozen humorous emails to DJI, btw), the problem has actually gotten worse and stranger. Oftentimes, the DJI app creates a mysterious 3 km circle around my location. If the outer margins of this mysterious circle touch a red or blue zone, (which they almost always will in any urban area due to various things like jails and airports, etc.) then I am locked down and there is NO method to self-unlock (on site) because I am actually NOT located in either a red or blue zone.....it is a bug of some sort and it seems to be related to my custom authorizations (which are turned off when not using and those cutom auths seem to work fine when in those blue zones). So I email them and they basically just say reload the app (which i have done about 5-6 times) because I am not about re-download the app to ipad mini via my cell phone tether or they will say go back to my laptop and get self-unlocking for that location (but I can't because (on the laptop at home) it correctly shows that the location is not in an area that can be unlocked because it is all clear. i hope that makes sense. Anyway, yada yada yada, rant rant rant.

But yes, that is good advice you gave above and i thank you for it. It will probably be my next "money-draining" step. Cheers.

 

[AeroMoPho]

I usually only get down to 30% or so after 3 flights with an Android tablet, but most recently it did get down to 12%. I hope that's not due to loss of RC battery capacity.

Hi DanMan...when you say "3 flights" do you mean 3 quick flights like 10-20 minutes each or 3 different multi-battery flight sessions over 3 separate days? My google pixel xl will drain the M2P controller in about 60 minutes when attached, even if the phone starts at about 90% charged. This means I can not complete a normal 3 battery flying session without the controller draining dangerously low (which is renders the phone 100% unusable in my case). Kinda sad, because I bought this phone specifically for drone usage because of nice screen size. My other 2 controllers (Parrot and Autel) will go something like several hours each when attached to this same phone, even though i believe the pixel phone is very slowly charging from each controller....those controllers still last forever when attached to phone. My DJI controller does not have any battery problems because when attached to the ipad mini (with charging option turned off) the controller battery will go for hours and hours.

 

[AeroMoPho]

AeroMoPho, I feel your pain. Your rant was so well written it would be hard not to understand your frustration and aggravation! My question is this.......
I have a MPP and a P4 that I fly often from my home which is within 5 miles of a fighter wing AFB and a civilian regional airport. I have all the latest updates. In order to fly I always need to get authorization and unlocking code. This can be a pain sometimes as it doesn’t always work the same. However I eventually get it to work. As I searched the internet I couldn’t find many others experiencing the same issue as you. I am on the verge of buying an M2P, but after reading your post I’m wondering if the problem you're stating is unique to the M2P and if I’ll run into the same thing.

Thank you for the comments. I actually live (and shoot some real estate and construction photo /video) in a DJI-designated blue zone (which is NOT controlled airspace). My main park that i practice at is near (but well outside of by like 1km) this same blue zone. I got sick of unlocking in my backyard (with mixed success) each and every time (I was just trying to get things to work in my backyard, during first week or two when i was having android phone power-sucking issues). I have a full-time real job and just do this drone stuff in spare time (weather-permitting) I finally submitted an application for one year custom-unlocking for my town. But because i did not have sufficient documentation of permission (it was impossible to submit documentation because from whom do you get permission to do something that is not illegal?...I actually was considering having my wife write a letter to tell them saying it was okay for me to fly in my backyard, Lol), the application was denied. A few emails later, I finally sent them screenshots from airmap, skyvector, and B4UFly as my supporting documents and miracle of miracles, they approved it...so i can now fly in my yard (for next 365 days). I used similar method to unlock another zone "near" where I practice flying quite a bit, but I do not actually fly in that blue area I fly just outside of that part of the bluezone (I am like 1km from it, I never even go anywhere near that blue zone but for some reason, it would not let me take off near it. Anyway, I also got that part of the blue zone unlocked for 365 days too using custom unlocking. But ever since then I have had this other issue I mention in another comment wherein at times I get a mysterious 3km circle around whatever location I am in and this is some sort of bug, to the best of my knowledge, which is related to these prior custom unlockings. Anyway, very frustrating dealing with this nonsense, on site, in the cold, during my precious and limited spare time with rain threatening, etc. etc.

But, for some perspective this is a #FirstWorldProblem !!!!

 

[DanMan32]

Thank you for the comments. I actually live (and shoot some real estate and construction photo /video) in a DJI-designated blue zone (which is NOT controlled airspace). My main park that i practice at is near (but well outside of by like 1km) this same blue zone. I got sick of unlocking in my backyard (with mixed success) each and every time (I was just trying to get things to work in my backyard, during first week or two when i was having android phone power-sucking issues). I have a full-time real job and just do this drone stuff in spare time (weather-permitting) I finally submitted an application for one year custom-unlocking for my town. But because i did not have sufficient documentation of permission (it was impossible to submit documentation because from whom do you get permission to do something that is not illegal?...I actually was considering having my wife write a letter to tell them saying it was okay for me to fly in my backyard, Lol), the application was denied. A few emails later, I finally sent them screenshots from airmap, skyvector, and B4UFly as my supporting documents and miracle of miracles, they approved it...so i can now fly in my yard (for next 365 days). I used similar method to unlock another zone "near" where I practice flying quite a bit, but I do not actually fly in that blue area I fly just outside of that part of the bluezone (I am like 1km from it, I never even go anywhere near that blue zone but for some reason, it would not let me take off near it. Anyway, I also got that part of the blue zone unlocked for 365 days too using custom unlocking. But ever since then I have had this other issue I mention in another comment wherein at times I get a mysterious 3km circle around whatever location I am in and this is some sort of bug, to the best of my knowledge, which is related to these prior custom unlockings. Anyway, very frustrating dealing with this nonsense, on site, in the cold, during my precious and limited spare time with rain threatening, etc. etc.

But, for some perspective this is a #FirstWorldProblem !!!!

That blue zone wouldn't happen to be an approach path to an airport within 5 miles, would it?

 

[AeroMoPho]

I feel your pain and that has been my rant for about the last year since I bought my M2P. I will be selling mine for the new Evo 2 mostly for two reasons. I refuse to have a Chinese monopoly tell me where I can and can't fly (although I do have NLD), and have also been rather dissapointed with the "fake" Hassleblad camera... Not only that, I think the quality control is terrible. I am on my third M2P because of problems in manufacturing. It should help to sell it as my current replacement M2P only has about 30 mins flight time on it (and NLD).

Brett, thank you for your comment. I have owned the Evo for over one year and it is like a child to me, I love it so much. But, as wonderful as it is for the money, as I matured as a pilot and videographer/photographer, I naturally desired to step up to something a bit better so that is why i bought the used M2P when it became available. But yes i am watching for what the Evo 2 will bring too. I must say, I really really was hoping to have that same kind of love affair with this M2P bird as I had with my prior drones (all of which i have truly loved). I have it for sale but I have not completely given up on it. I actually must say I like the build of it very much...and when I can get it in the air, I like the smooth handling the amazing accuracy of landing and stability, among other things. But I have not filmed/photographed enough to have an opinion of it due to the whole FlySafe fiasco taking a big dump on what really should be a burgeoning love affair in the early relationship between pilot and drone. I don't believe in having regrets but def. would not have purchased this M2P if news of Evo 2 had already been out 6+ weeks ago. Cheers.

 

[parkgt]

Wow some people don't seem to know why long passages should be broken into paragraphs. I won't even bother to try to read these, too hard on old eyes.

 

[AeroMoPho]

That blue zone wouldn't happen to be an approach path to an airport within 5 miles, would it?

Yes, of course sorry if I did not mention the main blue zone I am dealing with is for Class G airspace airport KMMV (McMInnville). Remember though, i am flying under part 107 rules. I live in a town that is within the east end of this airport and the place i practice in (which DJI would not previously let me fly in), is in McMinnville about 1km north of (but def NOT within) the southwestern tail of DJI's bluezone. When I first got my very first drone which was a 320 gram beast known as the Parrot Anafi (before I was flying under Part 107 rules) I used to call KMMV airport each and every day which I was flying to dutifully/lawfully notify them that I was going to fly that monster within 5 miles of the airport (about 75 feet up above my shed) lol.... they would rarely answer the phone, but I would leave a nice polite notice on their voicemail. Finally, when I told them I was getting my Part 107 certificate I believe the airport manager was very happy to hear that fact and said i no longer needed to call them, just fly safe etc. To be extra sure, I spoke directly with FAA at KPDX and they assured me that FAA does NOT require Part-107-operation pilots to notify Class G airspace airports of said operations, but PICs must simply keep VLOS, be safe, avoid/not interfere with manned aircraft etc. But recreational pilots do still need to notify any/all FAA-registered airports of any/all flights within 5 mile radius regardless of size (although probably .01% of recreational fliers do this around this particular airport).

 

[AeroMoPho]

Wow some people don't seem to know why long passages should be broken into paragraphs. I won't even bother to try to read these, too hard on old eyes.

ParkGt: Just read the second to last small paragraph in my original post (where it says "on a positive note...". That is all you really need to read. The rest is nothing but a big negative rant, don't worry about it. Cheers.

 

[sar104]

Yes, of course sorry if I did not mention the main blue zone I am dealing with is for Class G airspace airport KMMV (McMInnville). Remember though, i am flying under part 107 rules. I live in a town that is within the east end of this airport and the place i practice in (which DJI would not previously let me fly in), is in McMinnville about 1km north of (but def NOT within) the southwestern tail of DJI's bluezone. When I first got my very first drone which was a 320 gram beast known as the Parrot Anafi (before I was flying under Part 107 rules) I used to call KMMV airport each and every day which I was flying to dutifully/lawfully notify them that I was going to fly that monster within 5 miles of the airport (about 75 feet up above my shed) lol.... they would rarely answer the phone, but I would leave a nice polite notice on their voicemail. Finally, when I told them I was getting my Part 107 certificate I believe the airport manager was very happy to hear that fact and said i no longer needed to call them, just fly safe etc. To be extra sure, I spoke directly with FAA at KPDX and they assured me that FAA does NOT require Part-107-operation pilots to notify Class G airspace airports of said operations, but PICs must simply keep VLOS, be safe, avoid/not interfere with manned aircraft etc. But recreational pilots do still need to notify any/all FAA-registered airports of any/all flights within 5 mile radius regardless of size (although probably .01% of recreational fliers do this around this particular airport).

Your understanding of the rules for recreational pilots is incorrect. The requirement to notify airports within 5 miles went away with the 2018 Reauthorization Act. Recreational flights are now also governed by airspace, not proximity to airports.