RAW file is cropped and different to remote controller

[panoramia]

Hello everyone,

I have realized that Mavic Pro 2 is not saving the raw files as displayed in the remote controller screen. The raw files are cropped and have the camera lens profile embedded when loaded in Adobe camera raw, lightroom and the like.

There is no issue with the embedded profile, the problem is that when you're framing a shot, you want the raw file to look like it was originally composed and it is NOT.

Is there anyone out there that reported this to DJI? It's just crazy. You can't just shoot and then have the raw cropped arbitrarily.

I've used exif tool to remove embedded profile but then vignetting is super strong, colors change as well, it useless.

I just don't know how DJI can do that.

Anyone came up with a workflow to avoid all that? Any news from DJI regarding this matter?

Thanks a lot

 

[Amarand]

Hello everyone,

I have realized that Mavic Pro 2 is not saving the raw files as displayed in the remote controller screen. The raw files are cropped and have the camera lens profile embedded when loaded in Adobe camera raw, lightroom and the like.

There is no issue with the embedded profile, the problem is that when you're framing a shot, you want the raw file to look like it was originally composed and it is NOT.

Is there anyone out there that reported this to DJI? It's just crazy. You can't just shoot and then have the raw cropped arbitrarily.

I've used exif tool to remove embedded profile but then vignetting is super strong, colors change as well, it useless.

I just don't know how DJI can do that.

Anyone came up with a workflow to avoid all that? Any news from DJI regarding this matter?

Thanks a lot

Actually...

I suspect that the RAW file is actually NOT cropped, and that it's your screen view is being cropped to a different ratio.

RAW files are pre-JPEG and are just a bunch of numbers. RAW files aren't cropped by the aircraft, the sensor just dumps the data, along with a JPEG preview image (what you're seeing on the screen), and the embedded lens profile, and that's it.

When you bring up the RAW file in ACR, what is the resolution in pixels? And are you sure you're viewing the RAW file and not a JPEG? I think there are multiple options: RAW, JPEG, RAW+JPEG and I'm not sure what setting you're in.

 

[Amarand]

Hello everyone,

Also, welcome to the forum!

 

[panoramia]

Thanks a lot for your answer. I am 101% sure how I framed my photos, sometimes the subject won't let you frame it in another way and you have to compose with the subject very close to the borders.

I can tell you that what we see in the DJI go application is NOT what the raw file looks like. It's cropped quite a bit. I never ever shoot in jpeg, only in raw format, both in Mavic and my dslr cameras, so I can tell you that I am watching the raw files in dng format, I haven't shot in jpeg for ages.

There are quite a few photos I shot where I am 1000% sure the subject was within the boundaries of the screen and the raw files have cropped the photos and made them useless. If the lens profile is removed then I can see that my original composition is there, the subject is within the boundaries I used in my composition....but then there is vignetting and colour changes.

I am not the only one, Googled it and there are many others with the same problem. What you see on the remote controller screen is not what you get in the raw file and that's a huge problem because you just can't shoot what you see, the software will crop it and embed the camera lens profile. You will think the raw file contains what you saw in the controller but it's not.

Thanks a lot for your reply!

 

[Amarand]

At the bottom of this image, you'll see the data that's most important. For my Mavic Air, I have the "4048 by 3032" which is the native resolution of my sensor (as expected, because it's a DNG RAW file).

According to the Mavic 2 spec sheet, you should see the following numbers on your side:

Still Image Size: 5472×3648

Did you try opening the files in Windows Explorer (or Mac's Finder) to see the file extension? If the file extension is hidden (by default in Windows) just enable file extensions and verify you see DNG or something similar.

 

[panoramia]

I am using dng files, I have the extensions visible always on my windows.

Camera Raw uses embedded lens profile and crops the image.

When using Fast Stone viewer, Luminar 3 or I use exiftool to eliminate the embedded lens profile, then I WILL see the composition I shot in DJI go app without cropping but the dng file is cropped and does not display what I saw in the app, rendering many of my shots useless as I didn't have an option to compose differently.

Adobe software reads embedded lens profile and the dng is cropped if compared with what you see in the DJI go aplloi since. If the embedded camera profile is removed then I will see the original composition I saw and used but it will have a lot of vignetting and colour changes since the embedded profile has been eliminated

At the bottom of this image, you'll see the data that's most important. For my Mavic Air, I have the "4048 by 3032" which is the native resolution of my sensor (as expected, because it's a DNG RAW file).

According to the Mavic 2 spec sheet, you should see the following numbers on your side:

Still Image Size: 5472×3648

Did you try opening the files in Windows Explorer (or Mac's Finder) to see the file extension? If the file extension is hidden (by default in Windows) just enable file extensions and verify you see DNG or something similar.

 

[Amarand]

Thanks a lot for your answer. I am 101% sure how I framed my photos, sometimes the subject won't let you frame it in another way and you have to compose with the subject very close to the borders.

I can tell you that what we see in the DJI go application is NOT what the raw file looks like. It's cropped quite a bit. I never ever shoot in jpeg, only in raw format, both in Mavic and my dslr cameras, so I can tell you that I am watching the raw files in dng format, I haven't shot in jpeg for ages.

There are quite a few photos I shot where I am 1000% sure the subject was within the boundaries of the screen and the raw files have cropped the photos and made them useless. If the lens profile is removed then I can see that my original composition is there, the subject is within the boundaries I used in my composition....but then there is vignetting and colour changes.

I am not the only one, Googled it and there are many others with the same problem. What you see on the remote controller screen is not what you get in the raw file and that's a huge problem because you just can't shoot what you see, the software will crop it and embed the camera lens profile. You will think the raw file contains what you saw in the controller but it's not.

Thanks a lot for your reply!

Ahh okay, so it sounds like maybe there might be a bug, if a lot of people are complaining about it? If I had a Mavic 2 Pro, I'd test it for you but, sadly, I only have the Mavic Air at this point.

I think the main thing to remember, when shooting RAW versus JPEG is, you are not looking at the RAW image on-screen. If you're watching the Live Stream, that's actually video - not even the same format. If you're looking at the preview images in the DJI Go app, those are also JPEG previews - not the RAW file.

You only get a rendering of the RAW file when you open the RAW file in a RAW-compatible editor like Adobe Camera Raw, Lightroom - even Windows these days.

I'd be curious to see how this all works out for you, because I do see that there's a Windows bug, where it seems to think (under Properties -> Details) that the DNG files are only 900 x 700 or something, which is clearly inaccurate. ACR and Lightroom both show the proper number of pixels.

RAW should literally be a dump of the sensor data with some metadata thrown into the space allotted. It shouldn't be cropped, not at all. So something is clearly off.

 

[Amarand]

I am using dng files, I have the extensions visible always on my windows.

Camera Raw uses embedded lens profile and crops the image.

When using Fast Stone viewer, Luminar 3 or I use exiftool to eliminate the embedded lens profile, then I WILL see the composition I shot in DJI go app without cropping but the dng file is cropped and does not display what I saw in the app, rendering many of my shots useless as I didn't have an option to compose differently.

Adobe software reads embedded lens profile and the dng is cropped if compared with what you see in the DJI go aplloi since. If the embedded camera profile is removed then I will see the original composition I saw and used but it will have a lot of vignetting and colour changes since the embedded profile has been eliminated

So...if you bring the DNG file up in ACR, what do you see at the bottom of the screen for pixel count? ACR doesn't crop RAW files unless you explicitly press the crop key, so opening a DNG in ACR should give you a pixel length and width. I'm curious what that is? Can you share a screen capture of the ACR window with the DNG open?

 

[Amarand]

Also, as an aside, what I would do in this case is:

1) Place the M2P in front of a test target. Center it so the full target is in the frame as best you can.
2) Grab a screen capture on your phone in DJI Go of what you're seeing.
3) Have the M2P take a picture of what it sees.
4) Pull up the resulting RAW file in ACR and see what it says, compare to your screen cap.
5) Perhaps share your two images here, so we can see what you're seeing?

 

[Kilrah]

So...if you bring the DNG file up in ACR, what do you see at the bottom of the screen for pixel count?

Pixel dimensions are irrelevant, ACR applies the lens correction by resampling so the pixel dimensions won't be any different.

 

[panoramia]

The right wording would be that the dng file does not represent what you see on the remote controller screen.

DJI go application is the tool we use to compose our photos, but if the app shoes something and then saves something different in the dng file then we've got a problem.

I can read 5464 X 3640 in lightroom dng file

So...if you bring the DNG file up in ACR, what do you see at the bottom of the screen for pixel count? ACR doesn't crop RAW files unless you explicitly press the crop key, so opening a DNG in ACR should give you a pixel length and width. I'm curious what that is? Can you share a screen capture of the ACR window with the DNG open?

 

[Amarand]

Also, as an aside, what I would do in this case is:

1) Place the M2P in front of a test target. Center it so the full target is in the frame as best you can.
2) Grab a screen capture on your phone in DJI Go of what you're seeing.
3) Have the M2P take a picture of what it sees.
4) Pull up the resulting RAW file in ACR and see what it says, compare to your screen cap.
5) Perhaps share your two images here, so we can see what you're seeing?

Here's a decent one you could print out:

ISO 12233 Test Chart

https://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~westin/misc/ISO_12233-reschart.pdf

 

[panoramia]

That's what I thought but then using DJI go to frame the shot as exact as possible is useless, you must add a lot of wiggle room to allow for the compensation

ACR applies the lens correction and that leads to cropping to compensate the lens defects. It resamples so the pixel dimensions won't be any different becasue of that.

 

[Amarand]

The right wording would be that the dng file does not represent what you see on the remote controller screen.

DJI go application is the tool we use to compose our photos, but if the app shoes something and then saves something different in the dng file then we've got a problem.

I can read 5464 X 3640 in lightroom dng file

Okay, so it sounds like the RAW file is not being cropped (which is good, because that would be a Really Weird and Bad Technical Issue). The problem is your preview isn't 100%. We see this all the time in regular photography with lens parallax if you have a viewfinder camera, or lower than 100% coverage in a TTL/SLR viewfinder.

But when you're using your phone/tablet as your "viewfinder" you'd expect to see 100% coverage. What the sensor sees, is what should be written out to the RAW file.

My guess is, the DJI Go app is "cropping" the image, to show you a full screen representation without black-bars. If your screen isn't the same aspect ratio as your RAW file (highly likely), there will be a different view, than what is actually recorded.

I would absolutely do the five-step test I mentioned above, do it with a test card so you're absolutely sure. The nice thing about the test card I shared is that it has aspect ratios listed, so we'll have an "ah ha!" moment when you share your device's screen cap compared with a screen cap of the same RAW file in ACR.

Which device are you using to preview/compose your images? My iPhone XS Max has an aspect ratio of 19.5:9 which is not the same as my sensor's 4:3 ratio, so the -view- is going to be cropped, not the resulting RAW file.

I hope this helps? A little?

 

[Kilrah]

Do you have your camera set to 16/9 or 4/3?

 

[panoramia]

I will perform that test you suggested. I am using a Huawei mate 20 pro, I googled it and it has an aspect ratio of 19.5:9.

It makes sense what you said about the different aspect ratios.

What is the aspect ratio of DJI smart controller? Will it display 100% what the sensor sees? Thanks

Okay, so it sounds like the RAW file is not being cropped (which is good, because that would be a Really Weird and Bad Technical Issue). The problem is your preview isn't 100%. We see this all the time in regular photography with lens parallax if you have a viewfinder camera, or lower than 100% coverage in a TTL/SLR viewfinder.

But when you're using your phone/tablet as your "viewfinder" you'd expect to see 100% coverage. What the sensor sees, is what should be written out to the RAW file.

My guess is, the DJI Go app is "cropping" the image, to show you a full screen representation without black-bars. If your screen isn't the same aspect ratio as your RAW file (highly likely), there will be a different view, than what is actually recorded.

I would absolutely do the five-step test I mentioned above, do it with a test card so you're absolutely sure. The nice thing about the test card I shared is that it has aspect ratios listed, so we'll have an "ah ha!" moment when you share your device's screen cap compared with a screen cap of the same RAW file in ACR.

Which device are you using to preview/compose your images? My iPhone XS Max has an aspect ratio of 19.5:9 which is not the same as my sensor's 4:3 ratio, so the -view- is going to be cropped, not the resulting RAW file.

I hope this helps? A little?

 

[panoramia]

Do you have your camera set to 16/9 or 4/3?

Camera set to 4/3. Never use 16:9

 

[Amarand]

Camera set to 4/3. Never use 16:9

Okay, so I plugged the M2P's native sensor resolution into my aspect ratio calculator and it returned:

Your aspect ratio is: 3 : 2

So you are shooting 3:2 (RAW/sensor) and viewing 4:3.

Those are not the same aspect ratio.

3:2 is: 1.5 (1 1/2)
4:3 is: 1.333 (1 1/3)

Because you are viewing 4:3, while your image sensor is capturing 3:2, there's going to be a difference somewhere. You either stretch the pixels, or you simply crop what you see. I suspect DJI Go is cropping from 3:2 down to 4:3 for display.

I've included an overlay of 3:2 versus 4:3 and the resulting "black bars" you'd normally see if unscaled. (I made them red instead of black for illustrative purposes.)

Does this look like what you're experiencing?

 

[Amarand]

This is exactly what happens when you try to watch a DVD on an HD screen - you end up getting black bars.

What's Up With the Black Bars on Your TV?

What's the deal with those black bars on your TV screen? Most likely, nothing wrong with your display - find out what you need to know.

www.lifewire.com

Sometimes they're on the sides, sometimes they're on the top. And sometimes your player "stretches" the view to fit the screen, but that's interpolation and not "real" pixel for pixel display. Players can also "crop" to display, but then you're actually losing content (whatever's cropped).

So the most accurate way to "view" a source (your image sensor) at a different aspect ratio (your screen) is to either use black bars, crop, or stretch. I think they're cropping. But that means they are cropping the display NOT the RAW file.

 

[Amarand]

I will perform that test you suggested. I am using a Huawei mate 20 pro, I googled it and it has an aspect ratio of 19.5:9.

It makes sense what you said about the different aspect ratios.

What is the aspect ratio of DJI smart controller? Will it display 100% what the sensor sees? Thanks

I think the only thing I don't know is the aspect ratio of the DJI Smart Controller. I'm a little confused, are you using your phone (Huawei) or the DJI Smart Controller with integrated screen for your shooting?