No specifics needed. If this is actually the case, which I think it is, do you think it’s fare? The question is, do you think it’s fare. If your answer is no, then how do we fix it? Maybe even a more important question is, if it’s not fare, then why has it gone on for decades through many administrations both Republican and Democrats? My last question was somewhat of a rhetorical question from my perspective.
RIP Mavic 4 Pro
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microlinux
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This is not how tariffs work. Tariffs are regressive taxes placed on the citizens of the country doing the importing, by the country doing the importing.
Using China as an example, we don't pay them dime and they don't pay us a dime. We have no way of collecting taxes from each other. We do have ways to collect taxes from our respective citizens, however.
Bob's Tractor Emporium in Bismarck is importing tractors from China and selling them to American farmers.
Let's place a 20% tariff on tractors from China.
Bob now has to pay a 20% tax to the US government on every tractor he imports. The Chinese exporter pays nothing. Now the tractors Bob previously bought wholesale for $10,000 cost him $12,000. Same $10,000 to the Chinese wholesaler, but now an extra $2,000 to the US government.
Bob does not have enough margin to absorb an extra $2,000 per tractor. So he increases his selling price to the American farmer. Now the tractor the farmer was previously buying from Bob for $14,000 costs up to $16,000. Maybe more if Bob is greedy and decides to take advantage of the situation.
What's not fair is that the misinformation that you've based this question on is completely incorrect.
For a start, any economist that isn't employed by the White House.
Because I have been listening intensely to both sides of the argument, I can tell you how each side might answer this (but I'm not taking sides). By placing a 120% tariff on tractors from China, Chinese tractors will become so expensive for Bob that in 2025, he decides to buy 1 Chinese tractor @ $22,000 and 99 American tractors @ $18,000 from Fred's over in Fargo instead of 100 cheap Chinese tractors and 0 expensive American tractors.
Instead of Chairman Xi unloading 100,000 Chinese tractors a year at Long Beach, there's only demand for 50 and apparently that will put a hurting on China because....our friends (those other 170 countries) are told not to buy tractors from China and they better listen to us or else we'll put a 200% tariff on any country's goods who buys tractors from China.
Hopefully this insanity will last less than 90 days and the hurt and pain to American families and businesses will be temporary. Actually China has already been calling us begging to work out a deal and left a voicemail apologizing for ripping us off for so many decades but we'll let them feel the pain and do some damage to their economy so we can get an even better deal. We're hoping to close a deal that will include $2T in back wages from 20 years of lost revenue and we're going to use the $2B per day that we are collecting from tariffs to fund tax breaks for the wealthy and pay for advanced weapons to support our new $1T military budget and whatever is left over if anything, the peasants I mean citizens can pick thru the scraps in 2028.
This is what I'm hearing.
My question could have been worded a little differently. Because, I did understand how tariffs work on a basic level. Since this thread does border on a political leaning, I think I will bounce before the moderator goes crazy. But, thank you for your explanation.
microlinux
Well-Known Member
Because I have been listening intensely to both sides of the argument, I can tell you how each side might answer this (but I'm not taking sides). By placing a 120% tariff on tractors from China, Chinese tractors will become so expensive for Bob that in 2025, he decides to buy 1 Chinese tractor @ $22,000 and 99 American tractors @ $18,000 from Fred's over in Fargo instead of 100 cheap Chinese tractors and 0 expensive American tractors.
Instead of Chairman Xi unloading 100,000 Chinese tractors a year at Long Beach, there's only demand for 50 and apparently that will put a hurting on China because....our friends (those other 170 countries) are told not to buy tractors from China and they better listen to us or else we'll put a 200% tariff on any country's goods who buys tractors from China.
Hopefully this insanity will last less than 90 days and the hurt and pain to American families and businesses will be temporary. Actually China has already been calling us begging to work out a deal and left a voicemail apologizing for ripping us off for so many decades but we'll let them feel the pain and do some damage to their economy so we can get an even better deal. We're hoping to close a deal that will include $2T in back wages from 20 years of lost revenue and we're going to use the $2B per day that we are collecting from tariffs to fund tax breaks for the wealthy and pay for advanced weapons to support our new $1T military budget and whatever is left over if anything, the peasants I mean citizens can pick thru the scraps in 2028.
This is what I'm hearing.
A lot of this is just theater but there are real consequences.
We're powerful enough to demand reality-based changes to trade policies without flailing wildly about. And we don't need to start at a trillion-billion dollars to get a million dollars.
Yes, but we Americans are usually the largest group of beta testers/early adopters whose bug reports are essential to fixing those very bugs! LOL!
alfo2010
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The United States started a trade war first with Canada and Mexico, since then the USA started a trade war with seventy countries. When the USA placed a 20% tariff on China both sides have added more tariffs thus the prices have gone up. DJI will have to make a decision about selling their products to their US customers at a 148% tariff rate. Todays it appears that China will not sell DJI products to the USA until the tariff dispute is resolved.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but if you hear out both side of the argument, one side is saying the trade war was actually started years ago and not by the US. Perhaps new tariffs were implemented lately but if you argue against one side, they will say *all* other countries have been ripping off the US with unfair practices for years; how to respond to that? check out this "entertaining" clip:
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It's very clear that the enormous tariffs recently implemented were initiated at Trump's direction. China retaliated at each step. I'd love to see a factual history of tariffs between the US and other nations. Some of the claims of a gross imbalance are obviously incorrect, including many of the Internet rumors that the US has been victimized for decades. Other tariff comparisons are misleading in that the numbers quoted for tariffs apply only to a certain market sector, not all imports, as do the across-the-board tariffs the US has recently established.
Let's remember that all the discussions regarding tariffs has focused on goods and ignored services. Because services are such a large part of our exports, ignoring them gives a false impression of the actual balance of trade.
Has anyone seen a reputable comparison of actual numbers? Or a comparison of true trade balances that considers both goods and services?
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For sure the current round of tariffs were started by the US but the acual trade war has been long so I gotta be fair and acknowledge that. I cannot in good faith claim all was well with free trade until the tariffs were kicked off. I don't believe the tariff is the answer but some of the claims (not all) that have been made about our country getting ripped off are true.....not all is true but everybody knows that China cheats with their currency and that China steals intellectual property. Everyone knows the CCP subsidizes Chinese businesses and they underpay their workers. China does not believe in free trade and the free market and capitalism and to a certain extent, we do so it's partially our fault as well. Again, the methods being employed currently are not my cup of tea (because I don't like to see honest people getting hurt) but let's not pretend all is (was) well until we started it.
To me, it's a mixed bag. I happen to believe American cars are not in certain countries because people don't want them. There was a time, even I didn't want them....and I live here. Maybe it's different now and maybe it's time to revisit the topic but I don't see any Chinese e-cars here either.
Anyway, here's another good video to see the impact being made on Amazon and it's sellers:
To me, it's a mixed bag. I happen to believe American cars are not in certain countries because people don't want them. There was a time, even I didn't want them....and I live here. Maybe it's different now and maybe it's time to revisit the topic but I don't see any Chinese e-cars here either.
Anyway, here's another good video to see the impact being made on Amazon and it's sellers:
Jim Martin
Active Member
Factually, China treats its workers much better than the US. Retirement age in China is 60 for men, 55 for women in white-collar jobs, and 50 for working-class women. They also enjoy very high quality retirement benefits. Another indicator of how they treat their citizens is exemplified by home ownership. Approximately 90% of Chinese are homeowners, and 85% of those homeowners own their homes outright (no mortgage).
I agree that China does not practice capitalism and their markets are not capital based, but rather based on societal benefit. Another big difference is in property ownership. Chinese can own their home, but the property belongs to the state. China gives people a 75 year lease on the land with the right to renew. The cost for a 75 year lease is between $500 and $1,000. Whereas, we enjoy property ownership so long as we can afford to pay thousands of dollars every year in property taxes to the state.
Looks like the Mavic 4 Pro's price is going to take a hit due to the tariff hike from 20% to 104%. Adding to the complexity, the recent 125% retaliatory tariff announcement from the White House might further impact the pricing. Tough timing for a new product launch in the US market.Prior estimated pricing on Mavic 4 Pro was based on the existing 20% tariff. With tariffs on China now 104% (34% plus 50%) we will surely see a significant price bump. Worst time to introduce a new product in the USA..
{Edit} - White House just announce retaliatory tariff on China of 125%.
baddog
Well-Known Member
USA is not DJI's only marketPrior estimated pricing on Mavic 4 Pro was based on the existing 20% tariff. With tariffs on China now 104% (34% plus 50%) we will surely see a significant price bump. Worst time to introduce a new product in the USA.
{Edit} - White House just announce retaliatory tariff on China of 125%.
I am mad at both sides. All of our prior administrations knew for years that our foreign trading partners were taking advantage of us. None had the political guts to fight back. "You reap what you sow." Notice how Trump waived a carrot and encouraged our foreign trading partners to avoid retaliation. China chose otherwise. Over 75 countries have now reached out to "Make a Deal". Rather than funding student loans or illegal immigrants or giveaway programs, it is time to support US manufacturers and workers. Good friends need to stick together. Never did believe in globalization.
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