SAR group?

[Esel Jaye]

Inspire

Tight budget

 

[Esel Jaye]

Here's one where you gotta be part of a Public Safety Dept to join but a TON of great information to be had in this one. We are "Doing It" in that one not just talking about it.

UAS for Public Safety - Working Group Global

I'll pass on to the pilot/editor of the lip sync video.

 

[BigAl07]

Esel there are a LOT of options when it comes to setting up a sUAS program with a Public Safety Dept. There are a few rules I tell the Head Honcho when we first go into meetings and talking budget:

1) Any drone is better than no drone if operated by a trained and proficient professional. You don't have to get the Best of the Best starting out. First you'll want to prove the tech to those who right the checks.
2) When setting up your program allocate 1/3 budget to sUAS, 1/3 to accessories, and 1/3 to training. So keep these in mind when you're trying to sourcing your equipment because $15K is gone in a blink of the eye.
3) When working on your budget think about year #2, and #3 and don't forget to allow for REPLACEMENT units.
4) Allow some room in the budget for training sUAS. You don't want the new guy learning to fly on your new Matrice 210 unit from day one.
5) Don't get stuck on Name Brand Only operations. While sticking with DJI isn't a bad idea there are other brands that give a lot more Bang-For-The-Buck. Don't be afraid to shop around.
6) Last and possibly the most important thing to note.... start your Public Notification/PR Campaign long before you have the program ready to go LIVE!! Let John Q. Public know of your intentions long before the first DEMO flight. If your program isn't 100% transparent John Q. Public will have doubts and they will voice those doubts to the local Govt. From there it's a slippery slope that's hard (almost impossible) to recover from. The PR Campaign is arguably more important than your budget process. Regardless how much $$ you have if the local Govt doesn't approve it the program is DRT (Dead Right There).

 

[BigAl07]

Here's another group that is worth looking into:

The Air Bear's Den

 

[BigAl07]

Public Safety ~ sUAS/Drone Minimum Operating Standards ~ Deployable
• Part 107/RPIC (non-Part 61 holder)

o current within 24 months​

• Part 61 holders must have the online Part 107

o current within 24 months​

• NC DOT Commercial sUAS Operators Permit

o must be current​

• 40hrs of documented/approved sUAS Flight/Ethics training

o 24hrs class & 16hrs flight (with instructor) Online Training hours/time to be evaluated and​

“Rated”
• Have logged a min of 10hrs with “type” aircraft being
considered for deployment *

• Recurrency: Pass Dept/Agency Proficiency Course in the last 12
months or have logged X# of “mission” hours using “type” of
aircraft

*If multiple “types” of sUAS are available, the operator must
complete for each “Type” annually if to be qualified for deployment with that type.

 

[Willie14228]

To clarify, we are talking about pigeon size remote control toys, and how they could cause death and destruction when they are in the sky with a non 107 pilot at the controls. LOL!
I understand people being proud that they have jumped through the BS hoops to be labeled a "professional" but lets not try to lead anyone to believe that the drones are more of a danger than the actual helicopters that would be flying around at low altitudes.

Brother you have a LOT to learn if you think one of these drones are not lethal or dangerous
First off I. The U.S any registered S.A.R member is trained, this is to insure or limit the risk of the rescue person needing rescue.
Now to the drone!!!!!!!!!!!
A 2 pound drone traveling at 30mph has over 60 foot pounds, to put that into perspective a fast ball ("95 mph") has 87 foot pounds of energy and it doesn't come with sharp edges whirling props and extended arms.

 

[BigAl07]

First off let me note than I am intentionally "speaking out of both sides of my mouth" with the following comments I'm posting.

Now to the drone!!!!!!!!!!!
A 2 pound drone traveling at 30mph has over 60 foot pounds, to put that into perspective a fast ball ("95 mph") has 87 foot pounds of energy and it doesn't come with sharp edges whirling props and extended arms.

All that depends on WHAT aircraft you're talking about. Mavic Pro (this is a Mavic forum after-all) comes in at just 1.62lbs. Close but a tad less than 2lbs.

Keeping it about this particular forum: Mavic - Extended arms cause more damage how? Whirling props? They are "foldable" whirling props and like probably many of us I've had my fingers in them more times than I care to mention and not even a bruise yet. While it seems very dangerous (insert picture of Edward Scissor Hands here) in reality the cut/laceration risk is very low with this particular aircraft.

Now I'm sure it's "possible" to have a Mavic strike a person at 30mph but in reality most "incidents" are going to come from loss of power or a damaged/lost prop. When this happens the aircraft tumbles and never reaches any crazy velocities. If the aircraft is still functional (as in just loss of a prop) it will attempt to self correct (poorly but an attempt) and fall in a erratic but non lethal way towards terra firma.

Now would I want to get hit in the head by a falling Mavic Pro? Heck no... it's going to hurt and probably leave a decent "pumpknot" but most likely that's the extent of it.

Now being in a Real World sUAS SAR situation we could be flying anything from a SPARK (much less mass than Mavic) up to a custom unit spinning 8 large high torque motors weighing in at 20+ lbs. Of course there could be a much higher degree of risk associated with these larger and more complex aircraft. Risk mitigation and knowing what you're doing goes a LONG ways to helping ensure a safe return for SAR and everyone on scene alike.

To clarify, we are talking about pigeon size remote control toys, and how they could cause death and destruction when they are in the sky with a non 107 pilot at the controls. LOL!
I understand people being proud that they have jumped through the BS hoops to be labeled a "professional" but lets not try to lead anyone to believe that the drones are more of a danger than the actual helicopters that would be flying around at low altitudes.

Those "actual" licensed and trained pilots flying those "actual" helicopters have hundreds if not thousands of hours under their belt not to mention hundreds of hours of training and certification. They also have currency requirements and actual Flight Reviews that require demonstrating your ability to fly the aircraft and do so safely. Also those "actual" helicopters are inspected, maintained, certified and many have multiple levels of redundancy designed in.

Night and day difference than a Best Buy sUAS that you can merely charge and fly within an hour of swiping your credit card. Knowing the rules and regulations, and following them, goes a long way to helping increase NAS safety.

Having any and every jack-leg in the area trying to fly in coordination with Emergency Services is a recipe for CHAOS and disaster. The mere idea that anyone thinks that getting your Part 107 for Emergency Services type of work is a mistake is clearly very flawed from the get-go. All it would take is one sUAS (even a Mavic I'd suspect) hitting the tail rotor of a helo hovering low searching an area for a lost/hurt person and we'd have a Search & Rescue for the initial subject and most likely the Helo crew as well. Not the way to earn credit and boost the reputation of our industry as a whole. If you aren't licensed and credentialed to fly in that type of situation you're much better off staying at the house or supporting on some other non-threatening role.

 

[Willie14228]

First off let me note than I am intentionally "speaking out of both sides of my mouth" with the following comments I'm posting.



All that depends on WHAT aircraft you're talking about. Mavic Pro (this is a Mavic forum after-all) comes in at just 1.62lbs. Close but a tad less than 2lbs.

Keeping it about this particular forum: Mavic - Extended arms cause more damage how? Whirling props? They are "foldable" whirling props and like probably many of us I've had my fingers in them more times than I care to mention and not even a bruise yet. While it seems very dangerous (insert picture of Edward Scissor Hands here) in reality the cut/laceration risk is very low with this particular aircraft.

Now I'm sure it's "possible" to have a Mavic strike a person at 30mph but in reality most "incidents" are going to come from loss of power or a damaged/lost prop. When this happens the aircraft tumbles and never reaches any crazy velocities. If the aircraft is still functional (as in just loss of a prop) it will attempt to self correct (poorly but an attempt) and fall in a erratic but non lethal way towards terra firma.

Now would I want to get hit in the head by a falling Mavic Pro? Heck no... it's going to hurt and probably leave a decent "pumpknot" but most likely that's the extent of it.

Now being in a Real World sUAS SAR situation we could be flying anything from a SPARK (much less mass than Mavic) up to a custom unit spinning 8 large high torque motors weighing in at 20+ lbs. Of course there could be a much higher degree of risk associated with these larger and more complex aircraft. Risk mitigation and knowing what you're doing goes a LONG ways to helping ensure a safe return for SAR and everyone on scene alike.




Those "actual" licensed and trained pilots flying those "actual" helicopters have hundreds if not thousands of hours under their belt not to mention hundreds of hours of training and certification. They also have currency requirements and actual Flight Reviews that require demonstrating your ability to fly the aircraft and do so safely. Also those "actual" helicopters are inspected, maintained, certified and many have multiple levels of redundancy designed in.

Night and day difference than a Best Buy sUAS that you can merely charge and fly within an hour of swiping your credit card. Knowing the rules and regulations, and following them, goes a long way to helping increase NAS safety.

Having any and every jack-leg in the area trying to fly in coordination with Emergency Services is a recipe for CHAOS and disaster. The mere idea that anyone thinks that getting your Part 107 for Emergency Services type of work is a mistake is clearly very flawed from the get-go. All it would take is one sUAS (even a Mavic I'd suspect) hitting the tail rotor of a helo hovering low searching an area for a lost/hurt person and we'd have a Search & Rescue for the initial subject and most likely the Helo crew as well. Not the way to earn credit and boost the reputation of our industry as a whole. If you aren't licensed and credentialed to fly in that type of situation you're much better off staying at the house or supporting on some other non-threatening role.

In the context of arms, props and sharp edges in speaking of the drone breaking up on impact
In the context of whirling props well that may have something to do with a nice blue/purple fingernail after a flubbed hand catch yesterday man that smarted. My reaction was a bit kneejerk but it does scare me to see people under estimate these little guys they can be dangerous and I don't want anyone hurt. I have the deepest respect and love for SAR teams

 

[Esel Jaye]

Sorry for my absence. Had to take a trip to UK and have been studying for the 107. Plus catching up with actual paying work.
Many thanks to all who have expanded my knowledge as far as SAR ops go.

BTW I passed. 87%. Waiting for certificate now.

 

[ChrisOutdoors]

Interesting topic, never thought how my ICS equals would tie in with UAS operation. I was a PSC, SITL, and RESL for many large scale events, so my resume is plastered with quals. I've done SAR professionally but never volunteered my "UAS skills" for assistance. I'll have to Google my area for clubs.

To comment on the nay sayers in this topic, if you've never been a part of government large scale SAR operations you have no place to comment on certification requirements, I've done SAR professionally for 11 years now.

 

[BigAl07]

Chris you may want to check out this thread on our sister forum: (this link gives details and a link to the forum)

Why is there a new restricted forum for DSAR?

There is a new restricted discussion forum over on CommercialDronePilots. Why is it restricted and why is it not on MavicPilots? It is restricted to 107 pilots on the DSAR registry because it sometimes contains sensitive information pertaining to SAR operations that is not for public...

mavicpilots.com

 

[AMann]

Have you seen what a Phantom4 motor did to a Blackhawk rotor blade? $250K in damage and this is an aircraft designed for some very bad situations around the world.

That is the damage to the leading edge of one of the UH-60M main rotor blades. Considering it was "just" a Phantom4 it did inflict some significant damage to a major (non redundant) component on the Blackhawk.

Keep in mind this is an aircraft designed to take on some very nasty scenarios around the world and it was still grounded with an expensive repair/replace procedure.

What do you nay-sayers think would happen to the impeller blades of a passenger aircraft jet engine? What if this part had made it's way into one of the engines (General Electric T700-GE-701D turboshaft engine) in the Blackhawk UH-60M? Luckily the debris guard (not the technical name BTW) kept it out thank goodness or we might know the answer to that question

Pete Gillies (look him up - 18,000 hrs and an FAA Wright Brothers Master Pilot award recipient) had a roll down a canyon once in a MD 500D with the doors off because a passenger’s hoodie flew out of the cockpit and hit the tail rotor while they were taking off. If a sweater can cause the destruction of a helicopter, there’s no reason to think that even a small sUAV couldn’t have done similar damage to one either.