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Simple OOP (ops over people) question

Paul Stocum

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I've gone through several sites, FAA, Mavic, DJI etc. to try and get clarification on this question. Sorry if it is covered in another thread but here is the question:

What does "Fly over people" mean exactly? Does it mean the drone is directly above people? Does it include a crowd of people nearby, but I'm not directly over? I would image that rarely a drone that crashes is straight down.

The reason I ask is I have a client request (I am licensed pt107) if I can take a quick group shot of of about 400 people from my drone. They will be in an enclosed environment and will be notified that there will be an UAS flying overhead. The thought is to take off (not directly over the group, nor ever going directly above the group), someone announces look up at drone, take 2 quick shots then land. I would use a Air 2.

Currently I've indicated to client no, but will research further. I'd rather error on the side of caution.
 
I've gone through several sites, FAA, Mavic, DJI etc. to try and get clarification on this question. Sorry if it is covered in another thread but here is the question:

What does "Fly over people" mean exactly? Does it mean the drone is directly above people? Does it include a crowd of people nearby, but I'm not directly over? I would image that rarely a drone that crashes is straight down.

The reason I ask is I have a client request (I am licensed pt107) if I can take a quick group shot of of about 400 people from my drone. They will be in an enclosed environment and will be notified that there will be an UAS flying overhead. The thought is to take off (not directly over the group, nor ever going directly above the group), someone announces look up at drone, take 2 quick shots then land. I would use a Air 2.

Currently I've indicated to client no, but will research further. I'd rather error on the side of caution.


If the drone is over ANY portion of a person (even the pinky finger) it is OVER people.

What do you mean by "Enclosed Environment"? If inside (with no way for the drone to get outside) the FAA isn't controlling that airspace so you can do whatever you like.

If you stay off to the side you won't be over them.... but one word of warning... most clients are disappointed with "Overhead Shots" of Humans.... it's not our best angle at all....
 
"Enclosed" environment meaning it is partitioned off and no one not allowed to be in the area will get in. It is an outdoor venue.

Off to the side is the intention. If this is not considered to be "over people" (even though they are very nearby) by the FAA, then I may change my reply to client.
 
Thanks, I read through this but it didn't define "over people". Much like many things from FAA it seems. Hence clarification question of if I'm off to the side but the people are nearby, am I in the clear.
My understanding, like those above, is "over people" means literally over people, so off to the side is OK. But I also seem to recall that there is an exception giving you even more flexibility if you are in a controlled area and all the participants agree to the operation (I don't have a reference handy for this).

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and have no particular insight into how the FAA thinks.
 
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"Enclosed" environment meaning it is partitioned off and no one not allowed to be in the area will get in. It is an outdoor venue.

Off to the side is the intention. If this is not considered to be "over people" (even though they are very nearby) by the FAA, then I may change my reply to client.


Keep in mind, that many times the FAA (I'm a Safety Team Rep) gives us just enough rope to hang ourselves from a LEGAL standpoint.

Regardless of where you're flying from, if there is an incident and the UAS strikes a person you were NOT in compliance.


Thanks, I read through this but it didn't define "over people". Much like many things from FAA it seems. Hence clarification question of if I'm off to the side but the people are nearby, am I in the clear.
It's really not a grey area and is well defined on the FAA's website:


Operations Over Human Beings: What does "over" mean?

The term "over" refers to the flight of the small unmanned aircraft directly over any part of a person. For example, a small UAS that hovers directly over a person's head, shoulders, or extended arms or legs would be an operation over people. Similarly, if a person is lying down, for example at a beach, an operation over that person's torso or toes would also constitute an operation over people. A flight where a small UAS flies over any part of any person, regardless of how long the flight is over the person, would be considered an operation over people.
 
Some jurisdictions have a "Keep clear of people by 25M or 50M" rule that makes it rather obvious. If you are within 25M of a person horizontally, you are at your limit. And by people, 1 is a people. So imagine a 50M diameter force field around a person extending up to the clouds.
 
My understanding, like those above, is "over people" means literally over people, so off to the side is OK. But I also seem to recall that there is an exception giving you even more flexibility if you are in a controlled area and all the participants agree to the operation (I don't have a reference handy for this).

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and have no particular insight into how the FAA thinks.
Participant is only the people involved in flying the drone: Pilot, observer, mechanic...
 
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Some jurisdictions have a "Keep clear of people by 25M or 50M" rule that makes it rather obvious. If you are within 25M of a person horizontally, you are at your limit. And by people, 1 is a people. So imagine a 50M diameter force field around a person extending up to the clouds.


Not in the US that's not currently a "thing" but I have heard of that in other countries.
 
Some jurisdictions have a "Keep clear of people by 25M or 50M" rule that makes it rather obvious. If you are within 25M of a person horizontally, you are at your limit. And by people, 1 is a people. So imagine a 50M diameter force field around a person extending up to the clouds.
That is the case in Canada. Limit is 30 m for basic sRPAS certificate

If you hold an advanced certificate you can fly closer than 30 m, but your drone must be certified for "near people" (5-30 m) or "over people (closer than 5 m). Last time I checked DJI drones were certified for near but not over (unless they had an extra parachute add-on, which for the M2P costs 2-3 times the drone cost).
 
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You can get a waiver from the FAA. Here is a list from the site - https://www.faa.gov/uas/commercial_operators/part_107_waivers/

While your statement is factually CORRECT we need to add more context...

While it is POSSIBLE to get a waiver to fly under Part 107 (called ~107.39 Operations Over People) it's VERY difficult to get one. As of right now, only 19 of them have been granted and many of those to the same "entity". Here's where you go look and in the SEARCH box type in 107.39

To get a 107.39 requires a LOT of work and time which usually is only cost effective for a large organization expecting to make some serious COIN from flying over people. The process requires a lot of Risk Mitigation equipment and procedures as well as a TON of paperwork and DATA to support why/how you can do something outside of Part 107 and do so SAFELY!

If the operation can wait until Remote ID and the full gamete of OOP to mature it's possible the OP could do this under those regulations but those aren't a viable option unless you're flying a <250gr system.
 
While your statement is factually CORRECT we need to add more context...

While it is POSSIBLE to get a waiver to fly under Part 107 (called ~107.39 Operations Over People) it's VERY difficult to get one. As of right now, only 19 of them have been granted and many of those to the same "entity". Here's where you go look and in the SEARCH box type in 107.39

To get a 107.39 requires a LOT of work and time which usually is only cost effective for a large organization expecting to make some serious COIN from flying over people. The process requires a lot of Risk Mitigation equipment and procedures as well as a TON of paperwork and DATA to support why/how you can do something outside of Part 107 and do so SAFELY!

If the operation can wait until Remote ID and the full gamete of OOP to mature it's possible the OP could do this under those regulations but those aren't a viable option unless you're flying a <250gr system.
Thanks for the clarification. Very good to know. Possible, but not probable.
 
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Thanks for all your input. Good info for future requests.

Update: The direct client was relieved when I said no. Their end client contact was also relieved. The head honchos were requesting but everyone below didn't want to do it. Problem dissipates and all is good.
 
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This is the law in Australia regarding flying over people. No “grey”areas down under!

Personally think the 30m radius is a good part of the rule, and could never understand the US rule as just 'directly above' people / a person.
Obviously a drone in flight at 120m (400') moving at normal higher speed could move some considerable distance, even if there was a total failure and motors stop, further if it was flying sports mode or had a partial flight problem and just went haywire like you sometimes see in flight anomalies.

The UK has the same rule for radius but it is 50m ! (Think the same now not under EU rules ? Maybe EU rules are same.)
Very cautious and no doubt thinking the even more conservative distance is required should UAV fail under movement.
 
Thanks, I read through this but it didn't define "over people". Much like many things from FAA it seems. Hence clarification question of if I'm off to the side but the people are nearby, am I in the clear.
Unless specifically defined in legislation, it’s to have the common meaning/definition. Better option as it provides some interpretation until such time as a numpty does something particularly stupid where the regulating authority then is forced to be prescriptive. Over means over and near/beside isn’t over.
 
I thought that those involved in drone operations included the subjects of the video who are aware and agree to the activity. We see this in movies and on TV when the camera flies over and/or above the subjects/actors.
 
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