the AIR 3 here we go again
- Thread starter old man mavic
- Start date
Mikieh
Well-Known Member
No variable aperture. Actually that’s why I don’t get all the hype about this drone. I am a photographer first so sensor size is number one in my book. Having owned the Inspire 1 Pro, Mavic 3 and Phantom 4 Pro, the wow factor in still photography includes a larger sensor size than the Air3. Maybe I’m just old school.
My Drone Experience.
Inspire 1 Pro, Mavic 3, Phantom 4 Pro + , Air2s , Mini2, Spark, Phantom 3 Standard, Parrot Anafi . Plus full and asp-c digital
cameras.
DJI does need to keep up with the competition - so I'm glad for the continuing innovation. But you have a valid point. Older but serviceable kit can't be upgraded - and user serviceable items aren't readily available or easy to do unless you are brave and have good mechanical, electrical and soldering skills.
The larger Enterprise drones are much more durable that way, with attachable and changeable gimbals, cameras, RTK antennas and many other accessories - but the entry point is high and you definitely can't fly without attracting attention.
That said - our hobby drones have great features and cost as much as full featured smartphones.
Many people regularly update their cell phones to get the latest and greatest (usually incremental) iteration - some are on 6 month upgrade plans if you can believe it.
This is the culture that DJI now builds in.
But there is push-back from many people regarding the huge waste, the non-upgradeability of cell phones (replaceable batteries, upgraded cameras, etc.).
Some companies are responding with equipment that can be repaired by users for basic things.
I'm not so sure about the ability to upgrade controllers with the new technology. It would be the same as upgrading your laptop computer to the latest WIFI/Bluetooth technology, more RAM and faster processors. Usually - you can only do all that with portable devices by replacing the entire motherboard.
So, not really a viable option for a big upgrade - OS3 to OS4 for example.
WilliamDaugherty
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A few quick observations on day three with the Air 3 FMC/RC2. NOTE: my working fleet consists of the Mini2, Air2, Air2S, and Mini3Pro, i.e., no Mavic 3 model for comparison.
- Long flight time is fantastic. As good or better than the Mini 3 Pro with extended batteries. This has become more important to me than I had imagined.
- Image quality is excellent. I've shot about 1k frames of stills and over 2 hours of video (4k/60) and the results are distinctly superior to anything else I have taken with the other birds.
- The tele camera gives me a whole new set of possibilities that I expect will become required for me.
- Speed and climb rates are the fastest I've ever seen, which for me matters.
- ActiveTrack 5 has worked flawlessly in very challenging environments, so bravo for the complete object avoidance coverage.
- Range is the best I've ever seen. This combination handles interference really well.
- And a bonus feature I wasn't expecting: Cruise Control! This has been on the Mavic 3 series for most of a year apparently, but it is new to the Air series I believe. It's increbidly useful. Adjusting stick input then re-pressing C2 will update the Cruise settings. This makes longer video shots effortless.
My wish list would include:
- Digital zoom in photo mode.
- Tilting gimbal or veritcal photo mode. Yes, the Mini 3 Pro has spoiled me.
So no buyer's remorse here at all.
- Long flight time is fantastic. As good or better than the Mini 3 Pro with extended batteries. This has become more important to me than I had imagined.
- Image quality is excellent. I've shot about 1k frames of stills and over 2 hours of video (4k/60) and the results are distinctly superior to anything else I have taken with the other birds.
- The tele camera gives me a whole new set of possibilities that I expect will become required for me.
- Speed and climb rates are the fastest I've ever seen, which for me matters.
- ActiveTrack 5 has worked flawlessly in very challenging environments, so bravo for the complete object avoidance coverage.
- Range is the best I've ever seen. This combination handles interference really well.
- And a bonus feature I wasn't expecting: Cruise Control! This has been on the Mavic 3 series for most of a year apparently, but it is new to the Air series I believe. It's increbidly useful. Adjusting stick input then re-pressing C2 will update the Cruise settings. This makes longer video shots effortless.
My wish list would include:
- Digital zoom in photo mode.
- Tilting gimbal or veritcal photo mode. Yes, the Mini 3 Pro has spoiled me.
So no buyer's remorse here at all.
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today i set up my trusty old MPP and compared it to my new Air 3 ,they are almost identical in size body wise ,but of course the arms are longer on the 3
i had them both turned on ,sitting on my desk top and sat there comparing the different APPs and the specs of them,in some ways apart from the obvious lack of all round OA on the MPP
when it came to a lot of the features, and the ability to fine tune the flight envelope to ones individual needs ,then they have quite a lot in common
really its the extended flight time, and the APAS system ,that really sets them apart ,and finally of course the much better cameras, and connectivity between the RC and the drone
no harm was done during the comparison ,the props were off for safety, and a nice desk fan was blowing over then to keep them cool
i had them both turned on ,sitting on my desk top and sat there comparing the different APPs and the specs of them,in some ways apart from the obvious lack of all round OA on the MPP
when it came to a lot of the features, and the ability to fine tune the flight envelope to ones individual needs ,then they have quite a lot in common
really its the extended flight time, and the APAS system ,that really sets them apart ,and finally of course the much better cameras, and connectivity between the RC and the drone
no harm was done during the comparison ,the props were off for safety, and a nice desk fan was blowing over then to keep them cool
Why get the Air 3x when the Air 4 will be right around the corner? But why buy that drone when the Air 4x will be released shortly after? Why buy...oh nevermind. LOLI'm with you. I don't want to get a first generation drone just like I did when the Mini and the Air 2 came out. I'll wait for the Air 3X.
Chrislaf
Well-Known Member
What I don't understand is why DJI felt the need to upgrade from OS3+ to OS4 on the new Air 3. With OS3 the range is already more than enough and the compatibility with existing controllers including the RC Pro was already there. The new RC 2 could have fixed the problems with the original RC (more antennas and addition of external ones) and kept the same transmission tech. To me this is a huge waste and illustrates the point you make about the non-upgradeability of devices.
I have and love my RC Pro. I use it with both my Mavic 3 and Mini 3 Pro (bought as drone only). I really think that customers have to start pushing back on DJI to be more environmentally friendly and demand more choices such as drone only packages and controllers that work with a variety of drones. Now there is talk of an RC Pro 2, why? What is the need? The current one is already powerful enough at the moment.
I am all for innovation but when profit and greed get thrown into the mix without any apparent concern for the huge waste that all these incompatible controllers are going to create then there is a problem.
Chris
Because I don't work at DJI, I cannot know this for sure. All I can tell you is two things: technology on the roadmap has a tendency to find you rather than the other way around. Often it's about timing, sometimes it's about parts (or the lack thereof) and other times, there are teams within the company who compete with each other. If I expect to sell a million Air 3 drones, no way am I going to launch that with O3 technology when I have O4 tech knocking on my door; not going to happen in a million years. O4 has to launch eventually and from what I can tell (and I don't know for sure), you have Air 3, DJI PFV2, Mini 4 Pro, Avata 2, Mavic 4 (2025) maybe in that order; which one would you choose to roll out O4 with? Launching Air 3 with O3 would have orphaned that model, kinda like what they did with Air 2S.
Also, the eco-friendly green horse has left the barn back in the early 2010s. If we didn't get it done then, too late now to ride that horse. The world is basically destroyed and everything from the air to the oceans is polluted and at this point, there is no benefit to be earned from "going green" and in fact, you could hurt your business because it doesn't pay in the long run. It you cannot tell the planet is overheating and flooding..... Sorry, I'm a total fan of being eco-friendly, but those ideas got crushed by the big 2 long time ago. Anyone who talks today about being environmentally-conscience and racking up credits and saving the planet is only greenwashing.
Wreckhunter
Well-Known Member
this pastime of ours ,is all based on technology and innovation,and the world of micro electronics
and it isn't going to stop progressing any time soon ,and it will continue to move forwards ,i was born in 1947, and if someone had told my father, that i would be controlling a flying computer 76 years later ,they would have been taken away by men in white coats
lets stop bickering about the ins and outs, and the this and thats, of the amazing drones we fly
and just get on with enjoying them while we still can
and it isn't going to stop progressing any time soon ,and it will continue to move forwards ,i was born in 1947, and if someone had told my father, that i would be controlling a flying computer 76 years later ,they would have been taken away by men in white coats
lets stop bickering about the ins and outs, and the this and thats, of the amazing drones we fly
and just get on with enjoying them while we still can
Chrislaf
Well-Known Member
I guess my point is this - It's great that DJI has released a new Air 3. It looks to be an innovative update, and the new controllers with OS4 is further innovation, but why lock out people with earlier controllers that run OS3 or 3+. I'm sure it could have been included in the chipset.
Also, not releasing drone only packages when a new drone is released with compatibility for previous controllers is in my opinion, wrong and only driven by trying to maximize profit. What we have now is new drones being released and people being forced to buy controllers that they don't need or want = waste! Yes, sometimes a firmware update is released later and the compatibility is then added as was the case with the Mini 3 Pro but this should not happen. It should be there at launch so that people don't have to buy a package with items they don't want or need.
Chris
Also, not releasing drone only packages when a new drone is released with compatibility for previous controllers is in my opinion, wrong and only driven by trying to maximize profit. What we have now is new drones being released and people being forced to buy controllers that they don't need or want = waste! Yes, sometimes a firmware update is released later and the compatibility is then added as was the case with the Mini 3 Pro but this should not happen. It should be there at launch so that people don't have to buy a package with items they don't want or need.
Chris
Chrislaf
Well-Known Member
@old man mavic, I'm not really bickering, I just don't see the logic in DJI - they were on the right track when they released the Mini 3 Pro as a drone only package awhile after initial launch, but since then they seemed to have abandoned that strategy on the most recent drone launches in favour of the popularity of the screened controllers (DJI RC and RC2) and ultimately the profits to be had in selling them in a package.
Also, customers ultimately hold all the cards in whether a company remains successful or not so I think customers have to start forcing DJI to make more environmentally conscious marketing decisions no matter how small by demanding more choices like drone only packages, more compatible controllers, etc.
Chris
Understood but I can agree with you that cost/money is the primary driver.
@Chrislaf ,no problem if that's your opinion,your entitled to hold it ,but that doesn't mean that DJI is wrong ,they tried to please everyone by making the original DJIRC compatible with a series of different models ,and were lambasted for that because the people who purchased the expensive RC pro controllers weren't happy
I won't get into the details but DJI has probably been burned way too many times by listening too closely to a few customers than the entire customer base as a whole. Obviously don't have the numbers in front of me but anyone can see the "issues" this creates when you go off emotion and not the data. Are people rushing out and getting Goggles Integra like they promised they would if DJI would bring the true FPV experience to Mavic/Mini camera drones?
If Amazon and Best Buy and other big retailers do not want to sell the drone-only kit right away and they ask for millions of fly more kits, it becomes an easier decision.
Droning on and on...
Well-Known Member
@Chrislaf, the same flavor of concerns were voiced when the Mini3P was released with the DJI RC. Lots of griping about the new RC, and what about the Mavic 3 and the A2S? And here we are today with the DJI RC supporting both those drones.
O4 is nothing magic. Higher power, quieter spectrum band, additional antennas, and no doubt some new error correction and other software tricks added to the protocol.
None of this presents any kind of obstacle to programming the SDR in the RC2 to implement O3(+) to support the mini3P and Mavic 3.
Patience. It'll happen.
O4 is nothing magic. Higher power, quieter spectrum band, additional antennas, and no doubt some new error correction and other software tricks added to the protocol.
None of this presents any kind of obstacle to programming the SDR in the RC2 to implement O3(+) to support the mini3P and Mavic 3.
Patience. It'll happen.
Chrislaf
Well-Known Member
@old man mavic, I think you are mixing me up with people who bought the RC Pro and then regretted it when the screened RC came out and complained about it. I bought an RC Pro before the screened controllers came out and would do so again today. I have never complained about my RC Pro and was not one of those people who were not happy.
I don't think the issue is about right or wrong on DJIs part, I think it is more about offering choice and allowing people to make environmentally sound decisions if they choose to do. I think they can do this and still be innovative as the Air 3 illustrates, but also focus less on maximum profit which some might equate to greed and allow consumers more choice by making controllers more compatible with more drones, and offering drone only packages at launch time.
Chris
Chrislaf
Well-Known Member
But why not make it happen on release date so that you don't force people who want to update to a new drone but don't need a new controller to buy a package with a controller and then have to sell it later like many people did with the Mavic 3 Pro.
By the way, I am not one of those people looking to upgrade to an Air 3 nor do I have any interest in the new controllers.
When I bought my Mini 3 Pro as a drone only package, that was a first for DJI and at that time the delay after the initial launch was understandable as was the delay in getting compatibility with the RC Pro, but here we are with the recent Air 3 and DJI has not released a drone only package nor any backward compatibility. I can't help but wonder if the only reason is because they want to maximize their sales because they know many people will buy at or around launch.
Chris
Droning on and on...
Well-Known Member
Why does everyone always assume nefarious intent on the part of large companies? There are just people there, like you and me, balancing myriad interests that all have a stake – customers, shareholders, employees, governments, etc.
It ain't easy... I've been there, on the R&D side.
Revenue and profit are important, ethical considerations. The pattern we see again and again with new products is release with narrow support for the rest of the ecosystem. How many O2 drones did the RC-N1 support when the Mini 2 was released? 1. How many O3(+) drones? 0.
How many now?
Consider the Time-Value of Money (TVM). The most money is made by getting a product out the door and making sales. Making that product work with existing products the customer already has costs, but returns no meaningful revenue. I'm glad DJI makes this investment, but I completely understand why they don't incur even more cost by delaying release of a new product for unnecessary features. The DJI RC 2 doesn't have to work with any other DJI aircraft to work fine with the Air 3.
No one's forcing anyone to do anything (your words).
It ain't easy... I've been there, on the R&D side.
Revenue and profit are important, ethical considerations. The pattern we see again and again with new products is release with narrow support for the rest of the ecosystem. How many O2 drones did the RC-N1 support when the Mini 2 was released? 1. How many O3(+) drones? 0.
How many now?
Consider the Time-Value of Money (TVM). The most money is made by getting a product out the door and making sales. Making that product work with existing products the customer already has costs, but returns no meaningful revenue. I'm glad DJI makes this investment, but I completely understand why they don't incur even more cost by delaying release of a new product for unnecessary features. The DJI RC 2 doesn't have to work with any other DJI aircraft to work fine with the Air 3.
No one's forcing anyone to do anything (your words).
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