The last time I will ever use ebay for selling a drone

[macoman]

Never had this issue before because like everyone said... If the item was sent to the verified address with tracking number and not just he received the item... He also left positive feedback so this is just weird that happened to the OP. If PayPal reimburse the money... That's completely wrong because is like he stolen from PayPal or eBay the amount paid and they just gave him free money. Crazy!!!

 

[abridge]

I still say the PAYMENT was made with a source that was not the buyers. Account has nothing to do with it. Whoever owned the credit card or bank account reversed the charges. Not the buyer. That’s why he still has the drone. For now.

I contacted the guy personally and he said he has nothing in his paypal history about fraud charge and made no such claim. I sent him all the info and he said he knows whos email that is and will get back to me.... interesting.

 

[Tinmania]

What I don't get is how did he get a refund as well??
If he stated his card was used fraudulently surely the tracking information would show that the drone was delivered to his home address, and hence he would be in receipt of it?

This scam works even from your own home. All the guy had to do was claim "he" didn't order it. Doesn't matter if it was shipped to him... he can now keep it. He could even claim his minor child ordered it without his permission. A few years ago I was working with a banking institution on software development to track this kind of thing. You can try this trick with a bank, but only once and you will be flagged--and not the kind of flag that self-expires (e.g., good luck even getting another bank to open a checking account for you). Paypal, however, is not a bank--I try to avoid them at all costs, as a seller. You really are at their mercy.

BTW: I am just a software developer, not a banker in any way.



Mike

 

[abridge]

This scam works even from your own home. All the guy had to do was claim "he" didn't order it. Doesn't matter if it was shipped to him... he can now keep it. He could even claim his minor child ordered it without his permission. A few years ago I was working with a banking institution on software development to track this kind of thing. You can try this trick with a bank, but only once and you will be flagged--and not the kind of flag that self-expires (e.g., good luck even getting another bank to open a checking account for you). Paypal, however, is not a bank--I try to avoid them at all costs, as a seller. You really are at their mercy.

BTW: I am just a software developer, not a banker in any way.



Mike

But if this happens, why are they not required to ship back the product if its even in their "own home"?

 

[ac0j]

But if this happens, why are they not required to ship back the product if its even in their "own home"?

Usually they are directed to return the item before the refund is made. That’s why I think it was a payment type scam.

 

[Tinmania]

But if this happens, why are they not required to ship back the product if its even in their "own home"?

In the US if you didn't order it, and it is delivered to you, you can keep it (not in the case of a shipping mistake). I believe this was in response to "book of the month" type of schemes--but shadier--where items are shipped to you and if you don't send them back you have to pay.

From the FTC:

Q. Am I obligated to return or pay for merchandise I never ordered?
A. No. If you receive merchandise that you didn’t order, you have a legal right to keep it as a free gift.

Unordered Merchandise


Mike

 

[abridge]

In the US if you didn't order it, and it is delivered to you, you can keep it (not in the case of a shipping mistake). I believe this was in response to "book of the month" type of schemes--but shadier--where items are shipped to you and if you don't send them back you have to pay.

From the FTC:


Unordered Merchandise


Mike

as ****** as that is however, he did order it and even left feedback on it.

 

[JMF]

He's a thief, plain and simple, what goes around comes around, hopefully...

 

[Lastrexking]

I feel your pain. I sold a PERFECT Spark two weeks ago. Packed in its foam box, then in the original packaging, then wrapped in bubble wrap, then in another cardboard box. Nothing was damaging it. It was signed for delivered on a Friday and I asked the seller to confirm everything was as expected. They replied yes, but didn’t leave any feedback. Four days later they filed a claim against me stating one of the arms was broken and it must have been broken in transit. Bull. They’d obviously flown it, crashed it and broken it. So, they want their money back and to return a broken Spark to me.

What they didn’t know was this isn’t the first time someone’s tried this with me. So, I’d filmed the Spark working perfectly, then my packing it up - all time stamped and linked to the time on the mailing receipt 9 minutes after packing. I’ve sent this to ebay, PayPal and the buyer, but I’ve no doubt they’ll come down in favour of the buyer.

 

[Tinmania]

as ****** as that is however, he did order it and even left feedback on it.

Saying "he did order it" and proving it are two different things. They could easily say, "My minor SON left feedback, not me!" Yes, it is disturbing, but it happens. I would hope Paypal has a system in place that tracks this abuse--no, not abuse--outright fraud, but I wouldn't bet on it.



Mike

 

[Grizzo]

If a minor family member made the order and you claim you didn't authorise it, I would have thought you would have to return the item before you get a refund.

 

[swooshdave]

As long as you kept your money I'd consider that a win.

 

[abridge]

Saying "he did order it" and proving it are two different things. They could easily say, "My minor SON left feedback, not me!" Yes, it is disturbing, but it happens. I would hope Paypal has a system in place that tracks this abuse--no, not abuse--outright fraud, but I wouldn't bet on it.



Mike

he can claim his minor son ordered it, but then has pics of himself flying it on instagram? lol

 

[Sprocket]

he can claim his minor son ordered it, but then has pics of himself flying it on instagram? lol

Hate to hear you had bad luck. The following is not directed at you.
I started a thread called "Dirkclod closed a thread" a few posts below this one. How many of you beat me up and declared PayPal is the do all, end all problems way to make purchases with complete confidence that you will never be screwed over again? Doesn't sound that way to me considering the hassle this guy is going thru. BTW, he learned more about the problem by "contacting" the buyer personally. That sounds like he made a phone call to the guy. I don't know if he got any satisfaction from the call, but at least he found a few clues. That's more than he got from PayPal.

 

[abridge]

Hate to hear you had bad luck. The following is not directed at you.
I started a thread called "Dirkclod closed a thread" a few posts below this one. How many of you beat me up and declared PayPal is the do all, end all problems way to make purchases with complete confidence that you will never be screwed over again? Doesn't sound that way to me considering the hassle this guy is going thru. BTW, he learned more about the problem by "contacting" the buyer personally. That sounds like he made a phone call to the guy. I don't know if he got any satisfaction from the call, but at least he found a few clues. That's more than he got from PayPal.

I am very pleased I got to keep MY MONEY for selling MY product, however I am not happy with the fact that someone got to keep MY product and received their money back.

I agree with you. Paypal is not perfect at all. Their fees and Ebay's fees become ridiculous when selling expensive equipment. And then you have the possibility of someone ruining your product and claiming it arrived like that. I try my best to sell local but no one really has 800$ lying around usually otherwise I would be done with paypal.

 

[brilock1]

I really don't know if this is the right section to post this, but here we go. I personally hate ebay. Their fees are out of control and the seller has very few protections when it comes to issues. I sold my dji mavic pro back in February to a guy who lives in Hawaii. He had 50 100% positive reviews, so I thought I could trust him because it was over the course of a few years. His paypal was a verified address and he paid immediately. I shipped out the drone two days later and he received it 4 days after that. He left me a positive review saying the drone was great and he is happy with the purchase.

About 30 days later I receive a paypal notification telling me that the person who purchased my drone opened up a case against me claiming that he did not purchase the drone and that it was a fraudulent charge. I knew this could not be true. Paypal immediately puts me into the negative $ while they investigate. I send paypal the tracking information, the correspondence between him and I regarding the positive feedback, and screenshots of his instagram page showing him flying the drone around (he had no drone pictures prior to the date in which he received my drone). Fast forward to today, two months after he purchased it, and paypal/banking institution has decided to rule in his favor but let me keep my money.

How is this right? How can you let someone keep a product that they purchased and then give them 100% of their money back because they claimed it was fraud? The evidence 100% supports me. That is classic fraud and needs to be prosecuted.

Screenshots attached.

Can you not get it blocked by DJI as its stolen property?

 

[swooshdave]

Can you not get it blocked by DJI as its stolen property?

Not stolen if he received and kept the money.

 

[Cymruflyer]

Can't you contact the credit card company and show them all your evidence, because that would constitute credit card fraud on his part and that card company would not be too happy with that? As long as it was the credit card of the person who received the drone. I'm sure the C/C companies fraud squad would like to hear from you, especially with your social media posts and photos etc. to back you up, which goes against the guy.

 

[Kilrah]

I started a thread called "Dirkclod closed a thread" a few posts below this one. How many of you beat me up and declared PayPal is the do all, end all problems way to make purchases with complete confidence that you will never be screwed over again? Doesn't sound that way to me considering the hassle this guy is going thru.

He is going through no hassle now, he got his money back. The thread is about how the scammer gets to keep both the merchandise and his money.

Without Paypal the OP likely wouldn't have gotten his money back at all.

The guy is obviously a very clever scammer and exploiting every possible loophole in just the right way to get everything to go in his favour, no doubt he'd have done the same regardless of payment method. OP got his money back because Paypal understood that but got backed in a corner becasue OP is right (and got reimbursed) but what the scammer says is perfect enough they also can't withdraw money from him easily.

Guy just has to say some friend he was sharing his account with probably ordered it and had it delivered, but the guy since then went AWOL so no way to contact him to fix the "issue" etc.
Kind of thing you do once and once only, but that one time was worth $1k for him, guess he's happy enough.

Posting stuff on social media is no "proof" - he can say he coincidentally bought a drone the day before in a shop or whatever. Again until there's a formal legal claim against him and he's forced to give legal proof he can just say whatever he feels like to try and get away with it, and as usual he knows full well that it's highly unlikely the person on the other side will go through the hassle of involving authorities.

 

[Tinmania]

he can claim his minor son ordered it, but then has pics of himself flying it on instagram? lol

Pretty sure he got the last laugh.


Mike