This is the latest news out of New York City Concerning the Flying of Drones…

[LoudThunder]

Police only ENFORCE laws NOT create them. LEGISLATIVE acts create laws, codes, and ordinances at all levels.

I am sorry that you are so quick to give up your rights…

Your attitude brings to mind the quote attributed to the German pastor Martin Niemöller.

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

The New York State Assembly has already passed laws governing the flight of Drones and it is hands of the Parks, Recreation and Historical Preservation Agency, NOT the NYC Police Department, or any other Jack Booted Thugs…

https://parks.ny.gov/documents/inside-our-agency/PublicDocuments/GuidancePolicies/RegulatingUnmannedAircraftSystemsDronesModelAirplanesQuadCopters.pdf

NYC Administrative Code Section 10-126(c) -- requires a drone operator to take off or land in specific places designated by the department of transportation or the port of New York authority. And even this misdirected, ill-conceived document does not give the police any authority concerning drones… And it even violates the LAW that the New York State Assembly enacted…

I rest my case…

 

[Vic Moss]

I am sorry that you are so quick to give up your rights…

Your attitude brings to mind the quote attributed to the German pastor Martin Niemöller.

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

The New York State Assembly has already passed laws governing the flight of Drones and it is hands of the Parks, Recreation and Historical Preservation Agency, NOT the NYC Police Department, or any other Jack Booted Thugs…

https://parks.ny.gov/documents/inside-our-agency/PublicDocuments/GuidancePolicies/RegulatingUnmannedAircraftSystemsDronesModelAirplanesQuadCopters.pdf

NYC Administrative Code Section 10-126(c) -- requires a drone operator to take off or land in specific places designated by the department of transportation or the port of New York authority. And even this misdirected, ill-conceived document does not give the police any authority concerning drones… And it even violates the LAW that the New York State Assembly enacted…

I rest my case…

The NYC Avigation law is going away. Soon. They announced a new set of guidelines for drone permits. Also, the new law gives the NYPD the power to issue the new permits. So that part of your argument is moot.

And your historical references actually dilute your argument. You're using incredibly dark periods of history, not to mention derogatory comments towards police officers, to try and make your case. But since you're using extremes to illustrate something as silly as a drone permit, you can't be taken seriously.

You need to stop and analyze your arguments better. You also need to understand what FAA Preemption is as far as control of the NAS.

 

[LoudThunder]

You need to stop and analyze your arguments better.

As I wrote, I rest my case, you want to roll over and give up your rights or allow a police state to grant you rights based on arbitrary and capricious guidance, so be it…

I grew up in upstate New York and I live in Virginia now, and when I travel up North to visit friends and relatives, I take a wide berth west of New York City. It adds only about two-hours to my journey, but years to my life… And I have no intention of ever flying my drones in or around NYC…

But here is something to put in your pipe and smoke… I live in a very restricted Air Space, Zero Altitude Quadrant (ZAQ) of an Air Force Base Class D Air Space, just outside of a conjoined Class D Airspace of an International Airport, just outside the Class D Air Space of a naval Air Base and just East of an Army Air Field. But I can fly all over the place, the FAA has granted me many, many authorizations that last up to a year and re-applying for continued authorizations are a snap. And they are valid morning, noon, or night, except the authorizations in the ZAQ; no night flying, but that makes sense, since I am almost in the low altitude flight areas of these airfields…

Most authorizations take only a few days to get approval and the authorizations to fly in the Zero Altitude Quadrants take only a week or so… and they are not just a onetime good deal, they are valid for 90-days.

And the only cost to do all this is my time, I do not have to "bribe" some bureaucracy for permission to even ask… remember, the application is not refundable…

So, from what the NYC powers-that-be said, if you want to fly your drone, you have to specifically state what, when, where, etc, etc,etc… It sure sounds like each and every time you want to take off, different days, different times, different locations, each and every one requires a new application with the accompanying $150 "tithe" contribution. Submitted 90-days in advance…

I was told to "think Globally" about this, I do not live globally, I live in the United States, the home of the Free and the Brave, I served for over thirty years in the military and I do not intend to allow some busybody, control freaks, who think they know what's best for me and mine to control my life. Like I wrote in that "dark passage," who will be left to speak for you, it will not be me, I will probably be long since cancelled…

 

[Vic Moss]

So, from what the NYC powers-that-be said, if you want to fly your drone, you have to specifically state what, when, where, etc, etc,etc… It sure sounds like each and every time you want to take off, different days, different times, different locations, each and every one requires a new application with the accompanying $150 "tithe" contribution. Submitted 90-days in advance…

You fail to grasp the concept of FAA Preemption. Or you do and just want to argue.

The FAA DOES NOT control the ground. They only control navigable airspace, and that's from the ground up.

If your argument was valid, anyone could come onto any private property and launch, and there is nothing the property owner could do. We would not be controlling access to the NAS, we would be controlling the use of our lands.

You have no true argument that this is preemptable. It's a stupid set of rules for a simple drone permit, but it's not preempted by the FAA. Read the link I already posted.

 

[LoudThunder]

ou fail to grasp the concept

Maybe you just have not read my points, I do not believe that the rules that require a drone pilot to submit the what, when, and wherefores, etc… 90-days in advance to any planned flight (and from what I've read, each flight requires a separate application and fee), Is any more than a money grab.

Oh I understand that the FAA controls the air and not the ground. In fact, the county that I live in;

Quote:………….

York County Code prohibits the flying of a drone from county property without permission from the proper authority. Currently, York County has no formal process to obtain permission to fly a drone from County property.

Unquote:……………

And they do not intend to develop a process to grant permission… And I respect that because the restriction is very specific, "County Property…" the New NYC Rules, do not differential city, county or private property…

 

[MARK (LI)]

Dangerous how so? As in killing/injury people or extensive damage to property?

Are you taking a runaway speed truck thru the city streets or a 250g DJI Mini 2?

So NYC is different then let's say Chicago where you fly all over that city, huh?

Who's side are you on?

I think the population density of NYC ( 29,000 people per square mile ) compared to Chicago's 12,000 per square mile itself exemplifies some of the differences...I also don't think that Chicago has the number of airports and heliports that are actually within the city as NYC. ...I am not on any one's side...just concerned about safety; there have been several instances of property damage and personal injury in NYC from drones.

The sheer number of residents and the additional one million people a day that go into the City to work would make it very difficult to avoid flying over people, and sidewalks in Manhattan, which would provide the best photo opportunities are so crowded that you would find it difficult to control the drone ...Have you ever been to new York City and seen what it is like?....I would love to fly in NYC, but in reality, exercising that privilege would infringe on the RIGHTS of too many people.......There are a few parks in NYC where you are allowed to fly...they are away from extremely crowded areas . We don't have to like it...but we do have to be realistic about what is safe for everyone. Here is a picture of a typical sidewalk in Manhattan
...where do you fit in with a drone?

 

[mavic3usa]

I think the population density of NYC ( 29,000 people per square mile ) compared to Chicago's 12,000 per square mile itself exemplifies some of the differences...I also don't think that Chicago has the number of airports and heliports that are actually within the city as NYC. ...I am not on any one's side...just concerned about safety; there have been several instances of property damage and personal injury in NYC from drones.

The sheer number of residents and the additional one million people a day that go into the City to work would make it very difficult to avoid flying over people, and sidewalks in Manhattan, which would provide the best photo opportunities are so crowded that you would find it difficult to control the drone ...Have you ever been to new York City and seen what it is like?....I would love to fly in NYC, but in reality, exercising that privilege would infringe on the RIGHTS of too many people.......There are a few parks in NYC where you are allowed to fly...they are away from extremely crowded areas . We don't have to like it...but we do have to be realistic about what is safe for everyone. Here is a picture of a typical sidewalk in Manhattan
...where do you fit in with a drone?

 

[Felix le Chat]

As I wrote, I rest my case, you want to roll over and give up your rights or allow a police state to grant you rights based on arbitrary and capricious guidance, so be it…

I grew up in upstate New York and I live in Virginia now, and when I travel up North to visit friends and relatives, I take a wide berth west of New York City. It adds only about two-hours to my journey, but years to my life… And I have no intention of ever flying my drones in or around NYC…

But here is something to put in your pipe and smoke… I live in a very restricted Air Space, Zero Altitude Quadrant (ZAQ) of an Air Force Base Class D Air Space, just outside of a conjoined Class D Airspace of an International Airport, just outside the Class D Air Space of a naval Air Base and just East of an Army Air Field. But I can fly all over the place, the FAA has granted me many, many authorizations that last up to a year and re-applying for continued authorizations are a snap. And they are valid morning, noon, or night, except the authorizations in the ZAQ; no night flying, but that makes sense, since I am almost in the low altitude flight areas of these airfields…

Most authorizations take only a few days to get approval and the authorizations to fly in the Zero Altitude Quadrants take only a week or so… and they are not just a onetime good deal, they are valid for 90-days.

And the only cost to do all this is my time, I do not have to "bribe" some bureaucracy for permission to even ask… remember, the application is not refundable…

So, from what the NYC powers-that-be said, if you want to fly your drone, you have to specifically state what, when, where, etc, etc,etc… It sure sounds like each and every time you want to take off, different days, different times, different locations, each and every one requires a new application with the accompanying $150 "tithe" contribution. Submitted 90-days in advance…

I was told to "think Globally" about this, I do not live globally, I live in the United States, the home of the Free and the Brave, I served for over thirty years in the military and I do not intend to allow some busybody, control freaks, who think they know what's best for me and mine to control my life. Like I wrote in that "dark passage," who will be left to speak for you, it will not be me, I will probably be long since cancelled…

I think you hit the nail right on the head with this comment. Bravo. Well reasoned.

 

[MARK (LI)]

As I wrote, I rest my case, you want to roll over and give up your rights or allow a police state to grant you rights based on arbitrary and capricious guidance, so be it…

I grew up in upstate New York and I live in Virginia now, and when I travel up North to visit friends and relatives, I take a wide berth west of New York City. It adds only about two-hours to my journey, but years to my life… And I have no intention of ever flying my drones in or around NYC…

But here is something to put in your pipe and smoke… I live in a very restricted Air Space, Zero Altitude Quadrant (ZAQ) of an Air Force Base Class D Air Space, just outside of a conjoined Class D Airspace of an International Airport, just outside the Class D Air Space of a naval Air Base and just East of an Army Air Field. But I can fly all over the place, the FAA has granted me many, many authorizations that last up to a year and re-applying for continued authorizations are a snap. And they are valid morning, noon, or night, except the authorizations in the ZAQ; no night flying, but that makes sense, since I am almost in the low altitude flight areas of these airfields…

Most authorizations take only a few days to get approval and the authorizations to fly in the Zero Altitude Quadrants take only a week or so… and they are not just a onetime good deal, they are valid for 90-days.

And the only cost to do all this is my time, I do not have to "bribe" some bureaucracy for permission to even ask… remember, the application is not refundable…

So, from what the NYC powers-that-be said, if you want to fly your drone, you have to specifically state what, when, where, etc, etc,etc… It sure sounds like each and every time you want to take off, different days, different times, different locations, each and every one requires a new application with the accompanying $150 "tithe" contribution. Submitted 90-days in advance…

I was told to "think Globally" about this, I do not live globally, I live in the United States, the home of the Free and the Brave, I served for over thirty years in the military and I do not intend to allow some busybody, control freaks, who think they know what's best for me and mine to control my life. Like I wrote in that "dark passage," who will be left to speak for you, it will not be me, I will probably be long since cancelled…

Flying a drone is a privilege...it isn't a right

 

[RoarRoar]

Let’s simplify things here.

Laws can be changed and amended.

With that being said. I think if you are a New York City resident it would be in your best interest to write a letter to your city councilman. A well worded letter about the drone community on the whole. Let them know things like the overall safety of the drone community, reasons people fly drones (commercial work, tv and film, construction, hobbyists, art, etc), explain that there is a large group of residents who fly drones. More importantly those who make income from flying and how this can effect their income.

When I lived in New York City my councilman was Justin Brannan. Brannan was the most approachable public figure I’d ever met. He was at every local function and always wanted to hear concerns of the community. Most politicians on the local level still are this way.

Again if you are a resident of New York City express your frustration to your councilman. They have power to change a bill and bring it before the chamber.

I see lots of talk from a lot of people about this subject that aren’t from New York City. In reality it can only change if voters and residents of New York City make their voices heard.

 

[MARK (LI)]

https://parks.ny.gov/documents/inside-our-agency/PublicDocuments/GuidancePolicies/RegulatingUnmannedAircraftSystemsDronesModelAirplanesQuadCopters.pdf

I am not sure what the point that you are trying to make by posting that link...that has to do with New York State Parks, nothing to do with NYC Parks....and NYC, partly because of the size of the population has the authority to supersede State laws ...
...And although there are provisions to get permission to fly in a State Park....it is virtually impossible...they just do not grant permission...not here on Long Island, anyway

 

[GFields]

I am not sure what the point that you are trying to make by posting that link...that has to do with New York State Parks, nothing to do with NYC Parks....and NYC, partly because of the size of the population has the authority to supersede State laws ...
...And although there are provisions to get permission to fly in a State Park....it is virtually impossible...they just do not grant permission...not here on Long Island, anyway

 

[LoudThunder]

they just do not grant permission

My Point Exactly... A Money Grab...

 

[RoarRoar]

My Point Exactly... A Money Grab...

The NYPD can make more money writing more parking tickets than not issuing these permits. I think that they think it’s a public safety issue. The drone community itself isn’t very large so I can’t imagine it’s a money grab.

 

[MARK (LI)]

My Point Exactly... A Money Grab...

But there is no fee involved on the State level, which is what that link references.......on the City level, whether there is a fee or not, it does not seem that the PD can assume the authority to accept permit applications for something that is still not legal under the City laws. Using their logic they can issue permits granting you the right to rob banks

 

[mavic3usa]

The NYPD can make more money writing more parking tickets than not issuing these permits. I think that they think it’s a public safety issue. The drone community itself isn’t very large so I can’t imagine it’s a money grab.

The NYPD can make a $billion issuing handgun permits to citizens @ $1000 but they won't because they don't want citizens to buy, possess, keep, or carry handguns. They put together the permit process because they were told to do it and if they didn't, it would look like they were prohibiting it. But instead, they allow it with a permit; they just don't issue permits. There is one guy on the largest police force in the world who is responsible for processing those permits and it could take months or even years to get around to your application if they haven't lost it. Honestly, you've never heard this before? It's the oldest trick in the book.

 

[LoudThunder]

I think that they think it’s a public safety issue.

Of course it's a Public Safety issue; but my issue is the 90-day turn around and the $150 fee. The permit is a onetime permit (valid only at that time and place…), not a long term permit where it might be valid for 7, 10, 30,or even 90-days… When they disapprove the request, your only recourse is to resubmit with an additional $150 fee…

 

[mavic3usa]

Of course it's a Public Safety issue; but my issue is the 90-day turn around and the $150 fee. The permit is a onetime permit (valid only at that time and place…), not a long term permit where it might be valid for 7, 10, 30,or even 90-days… When they disapprove the request, your only recourse is to resubmit with an additional $150 fee…

That's a defacto ban, in anybody's book.

 

[LoudThunder]

The NYPD can make more money writing more parking tickets than not issuing these permits.

Actually, a NYC parking ticket may be issued by members of the Police Department, Fire Department, Department of Transportation, Traffic Enforcement Agents, Department of Sanitation, the Sheriff, Under Sheriff and Deputy Sheriffs of the Department of Finance's Office of the City Sheriff, Fraud and Associate Fraud Investigators.

And last year NYC collected over $600 million in parking fees and they are so dependent on writing these tickets that it is a line item income item on the NYC Comptrollers Budget Projections.

And do not forget the NYC is implementing a Congestion Toll to "control traffic" in the city… However, their own specialists, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA), has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars over several years on numerous studies that indicate that the toll would not decrease traffic, but they are still going ahead… Dare I say, another Money Grab…

Lets not for get that Big Tobacco paid a $800 Million To New York State Under Landmark 1998 Agreement. Yet only $42 Million went for programs to stop smoking tobacco. And the rest went where?

Today, New York State collects more than $1 billion annually from tobacco companies and smokers, yet only a fraction goes to treating and preventing nicotine dependence. The fraction is so small, it is difficult to determine… Dare I say, another Money Grab…

https://www.nypirg.org/pubs/202302/Tobacco_Report_2023_Final.pdf

 

[mobilehomer]

Again, their sandbox, their rules. If you don't like it, easy - stay out of NYC. This might be trite, but it is true.