This makes me very sad

[Deleted member 125445]

I have wanted to fly a drone for years. When I finally made the decision to purchase my first drone a few weeks ago, I purchased the Mavic Air 2. The drone is great, and I had no trouble flying it. However, after only two days of flight, I realized I would not be able to abide by the FAA Visual Line of Sight rule. I soon realized that keeping the drone so close that I could actually see it was not going to be something that appealed to me. I do not want to reignite an argument over VLOS. The law is clear – you much be able to see your drone while flying it. I could have chosen to fly and simply ignore that rule, but I prefer to act within the law. So with a heavy heart, I returned the drone for a refund. Maybe someday that part of the FAA law will be updated or removed, but I am not holding my breath. I just have to accept the current situation and move on. My loss.

 

[Greekislandlover]

How far were you planning to fly it?

What I have done is to add strobon cree strobes on all four legs. That increases the VLOS considerably - even in daylight. A flying Christmas tree is difficult to lose! If also helped me to have bright orange propellers - that aided visibility. It mighty be that one of the garish coloured skins you can get aids visibility too, as the thing is a boring shade of grey that blends in with the background too well. None of this affects the camera taking excellent pictures.

Not sure of the regulations where you are, but you can use spotters to assist. I have taken my son out with me as his eyes are younger than mine.

 

[HoosierFlyer]

I think his issue is that he wants to see the physical body of the drone at all times and obey the VLOS law. Unfortunately this is nearly impossible if you plan on flying the drone over 300ft at any distance farther than 50ft out, it becomes a speck in the sky at these distances and beyond.
Let me ask you, do you drive at the exact speed limit every time you hop in your car? If not, I suspect you should stop driving and sell your car too.

 

[Motorcycle Rider]

I think almost everyone flies past line of sight. I admire your willingness to follow exactly the letter of the law. I can't say I always do. Yesterday I drove 91 in a 90 kms/hr zone to.

 

[Greekislandlover]

Let me ask you, do you drive at the exact speed limit every time you hop in your car? If not, I suspect you should stop driving and sell your car too.

Well, the works van has a tracker that issues a report on speeds driven to management, so I don't speed for work. If I'm in the car my wife normally is too, so I don't tend to speed cos she's going to tell me off. Also, I use the speed limiter in the car on motorways - too many cameras. I try and behave but don't always manage it.

As regards wanting to see the body at all times, I agree it's not possible. But I see nothing wrong with being able to use aids to increase VLOS.

 

[Deleted member 125445]

How far were you planning to fly it?

What I have done is to add strobon cree strobes on all four legs. That increases the VLOS considerably - even in daylight. A flying Christmas tree is difficult to lose! If also helped me to have bright orange propellers - that aided visibility. It mighty be that one of the garish coloured skins you can get aids visibility too, as the thing is a boring shade of grey that blends in with the background too well. None of this affects the camera taking excellent pictures.

Not sure of the regulations where you are, but you can use spotters to assist. I have taken my son out with me as his eyes are younger than mine.

Thank you for your reply. I prefer to take the drone straight up about 200 feet and just go explore. That is completely incompatible with current FAA regulations, so I had to give up the hobby.

 

[sar104]

I think his issue is that he wants to see the physical body of the drone at all times and obey the VLOS law. Unfortunately this is nearly impossible if you plan on flying the drone over 300ft at any distance farther than 50ft out, it becomes a speck in the sky at these distances and beyond.
Let me ask you, do you drive at the exact speed limit every time you hop in your car? If not, I suspect you should stop driving and sell your car too.

That's a very poor analogy - a few miles per hour over the speed limit might be equivalent to flying 70 ft, rather than 50 ft, using your numbers. That's not what BVLOS ends up as for many flights, where the aircraft is hundreds or thousands of feet away. And so it's not a simple linear issue - at those distances you have virtually no situational awareness of the airspace around the drone (which is the reason for VLOS), and you likely won't notice other aircraft. A better question would be "do you always drive with your eyes open every time you hop in the car?"

 

[HoosierFlyer]

Just a thought, but does the VLOS law cover the ability to see yourself through your drone's FPV? If I orient my drone's FPV and I can see the location where I've taken off, is this also considered "visual line of sight"? Basically reversing the sight rule, if you will

 

[sar104]

Thank you for your reply. I prefer to take the drone straight up about 200 feet and just go explore. That is completely incompatible with current FAA regulations, so I had to give up the hobby.

A very wise choice.

 

[sar104]

Just a thought, but does the VLOS law cover the ability to see yourself through your drone's FPV? If I orient my drone's FPV and I can see the location where I've taken off, is this also considered "visual line of sight"? Basically reversing the sight rule, if you will

No - it is not, and the question indicates that you don't understand the basic purpose of VLOS.

 

[Deleted member 125445]

I think his issue is that he wants to see the physical body of the drone at all times and obey the VLOS law. Unfortunately this is nearly impossible if you plan on flying the drone over 300ft at any distance farther than 50ft out, it becomes a speck in the sky at these distances and beyond.
Let me ask you, do you drive at the exact speed limit every time you hop in your car? If not, I suspect you should stop driving and sell your car too.

I agree with what you said, but people in this group will probably attack you for that response and say that analogy is not valid, and that you are being irresponsible.

 

[Deleted member 93449]

The VLOS rule is in place primarily for collision avoidance. In that respect I question the effectiveness of the rule when we're talking about a drone that's a speck in the distance and a manned aircraft. I very seriously doubt the ability of anyone to make an accurate judgement of proximity between a drone and a manned aircraft at beyond a few hundred meters. I think the ability to judge spacing, height and distance at that range is negligible if at all. I think there should be some standard procedure for drone pilots to follow if they see an aircraft in the vicinity of the drone whether they can see the drone or not is immaterial if you know the general area the drone is in relative to the aircraft you can see. I seriously doubt you can judge at distances that may be VLOS but where the drone is that speck in the sky if there is about to be a collision or the drone is some distance from the aircraft where their altitude and direction of fly and not going to be an issue. Simply knowing the general area in which the drone is located provides you as much information with respect to collision avoidance.

 

[old man mavic]

@Jim Mavic Pilot i admire your honesty with regards to VLOS, at my age i wear glasses for reading and have a pair of bifocals, that allow me to see my screen display and the drone at the same time my VLOS depends a lot on weather conditions and varies between a very bright sunny day and a dull overcast one,i have a skin which to be honest doesnt make a lot of difference at distance, but the strobes on the front arms are a good visual guide to direction ,for my MPP i can see it at up to a 1000ft on a clear day and the MM at around 500ft
the biggest problem i encounter is when i look down at the screen and then try to regain a visual on the drone i know for a fact that on quite a few occasions i have had to Yaw my drone watching the map screen till it points to home and then fly back till i can see it again ,it is the nature of the job i dont feel ashamed of admitting that i lose site of it ,what i get annoyed about is when people ,purposely fly thousands of feet away knowing full well that they are contravening the guidlines

 

[HoosierFlyer]

That's a very poor analogy - a few miles per hour over the speed limit might be equivalent to flying 70 ft, rather than 50 ft, using your numbers. That's not what BVLOS ends up as for many flights, where the aircraft is hundreds or thousands of feet away. And so it's not a simple linear issue - at those distances you have virtually no situational awareness of the airspace around the drone (which is the reason for VLOS), and you likely won't notice other aircraft. A better question would be "do you always drive with your eyes open every time you hop in the car?"

In my opinion, it's not a poor analogy. I'm comparing obeying the law in both scenarios, which I've done. But, you are also entitled to your own opinion .
It's a silly law to be honest. If you go fly a small Cessna, does anyone have VLOS to this aircraft? No, because you're inside flying it with a FIRST PERSON VIEW (FPV). It's the same argument that we as drone flyers have FPV and can get a view directly from the aircraft rather than looking at it from the ground. Try flying your drone 300ft in the air within 20-50ft distance out and take a few pictures/videos without the FPV and let me know how well you can orient yourself with your VLOS law. It's a stupid law, it sucks, but it is what it is.

 

[Deleted member 125445]

Well, the works van has a tracker that issues a report on speeds driven to management, so I don't speed for work. If I'm in the car my wife normally is too, so I don't tend to speed cos she's going to tell me off. Also, I use the speed limiter in the car on motorways - too many cameras. I try and behave but don't always manage it.

As regards wanting to see the body at all times, I agree it's not possible. But I see nothing wrong with being able to use aids to increase VLOS.

I think it is actually safer to fly by looking at the screen rather than the drone in the sky, but someone will tell me that technology can fail and I need to see the drone.

 

[Greekislandlover]

Just a thought, but does the VLOS law cover the ability to see yourself through your drone's FPV? If I orient my drone's FPV and I can see the location where I've taken off, is this also considered "visual line of sight"? Basically reversing the sight rule, if you will

In the UK, on the CAA drone code pages they state that "The remote pilot must maintain direct unaided visual contact with the aircraft which is sufficient to monitor its flight path so that collisions may be avoided". There is a general exception to this that states that provided the pilot has a competent observer who has unaided visual contact the pilot can be using fpv.

 

[Greekislandlover]

I think it is actually safer to fly by looking at the screen rather than the drone in the sky, but someone will tell me that technology can fail and I need to see the drone.

I agree. You know where it is, how high it is, which way it's pointing, if there are any obstacles around.But yes, it's probably the letter of the law.

 

[sar104]

In my opinion, it's not a poor analogy. I'm comparing obeying the law in both scenarios, which I've done. But, you are also entitled to your own opinion .
It's a silly law to be honest. If you go fly a small Cessna, does anyone have VLOS to this aircraft? No, because you're inside flying it with a FIRST PERSON VIEW (FPV). It's the same argument that we as drone flyers have FPV and can get a view directly from the aircraft rather than looking at it from the ground. Try flying your drone 300ft in the air within 20-50ft distance out and take a few pictures/videos without the FPV and let me know how well you can orient yourself with your VLOS law. It's a stupid law, it sucks, but it is what it is.

So you are really arguing that a few miles per hour over the speed limit is equivalent to driving with your eyes closed? That all law-breaking is equivalently serious? And you have clearly never piloted an aircraft - you are constantly scanning the sky forwards and sideways, and the assumption is that anything closing on you from behind will see you because they are doing the same. Your FPV is useless in comparison.

The utility of taking photos without FPV is a complete red herring, because you can have both, you just can't not have VLOS.

 

[sar104]

I agree with what you said, but people in this group will probably attack you for that response and say that analogy is not valid, and that you are being irresponsible.

Correct - the analogy is not valid at all, and indicates absolutely no understanding of the reason for the requirement.

 

[Miss Chrisy Co]

In my opinion, it's not a poor analogy. I'm comparing obeying the law in both scenarios, which I've done. But, you are also entitled to your own opinion .
It's a silly law to be honest. If you go fly a small Cessna, does anyone have VLOS to this aircraft? No, because you're inside flying it with a FIRST PERSON VIEW (FPV). It's the same argument that we as drone flyers have FPV and can get a view directly from the aircraft rather than looking at it from the ground. Try flying your drone 300ft in the air within 20-50ft distance out and take a few pictures/videos without the FPV and let me know how well you can orient yourself with your VLOS law. It's a stupid law, it sucks, but it is what it is.

Piloting/driving a vehicle remotely isn't even close to the situational awareness one has while in the drivers/pilots seat. Also comparing a Cessna, which can only go in a straight light, to a quad drone is also a very poor comparison. You can't strafe into the path of another vessel with a Cessna.