Does the newest app version actually prevent you from flying with .0400? I always considered the app and firmware to be somewhat independent of each other.
Tired off .500 so I am back on .400
- Thread starter Robbyg
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- .400 vs .500 downgrading
Does the newest app version actually prevent you from flying with .0400? I always considered the app and firmware to be somewhat independent of each other.
AlanTheBeast
Well-Known Member
Somebody posted a very good point elsewhere: It is not Boeing who is responsible for a take-off decision, it is the pilot in command. Period. DJI may figure that out one day.
And, no, drones have not been banned in Canada. They've been legally "contained" in a blind idiotic fashion. Can still fly, just need to be choosy and careful.
And, no, drones have not been banned in Canada. They've been legally "contained" in a blind idiotic fashion. Can still fly, just need to be choosy and careful.
Like someone said earlier in the thread I am also running .200 and never had any issues with either the iOS or the Android DJI Go 4 app. They both tell me upgrade is required but then it just goes away and lets me fly.
Adesculpture
New Member
My mavic arrived with .0300 in the drone and the controller. Being a newbie, I didn't realise the app had updated to 4.0.5. So I have been flying that combination and now wondering if I should/could update drone and controller to .0400?
Yesterday was the first month anniversary with my Mavic. I remember I flew only 1 week with the .0400 firmware and it was flawless until the .0500
I'm not sure if you actually can choose the upgrade to a certain version. It'll upgrade to the last one wich is .0500, and I do not recommend it IMHO.
AlexSP
Well-Known Member
Having RC and video signal fluctuating during flights is not an "issue". It's part of drone flying, Lightbridge Occusync or whatever. Conditions vary enough even in seemingly "ideal" situations, such as flat, unobstructed and 2.4Ghz-free areas. GPS on the other hand should be reasonably stable, though that too is subject to interference from weather and buildings and satellite count among other things.
We tend to look for consistencies (or inconsistencies) all the time as a way to validate (or otherwise) our assumptions (or even a declared feature), but that's not the best way to approach this. It is basically and above all essentially an inconsistent ecosystem that's heavily dependent on HW-FW integration. But truth is bugs are minor if we take into account how advanced and capable these aircrafts are. It's not a TV or DVD set, it's a semi-autonomous, long-range flying machine with RT video downlink. Very intuitive and easy to use but still, with many windows for pilot and operator error in all phases (pre, during and post). It's safe to assume most issues, if not accidents, stem from or are related to those.
From the P3 and beyond, quad flying has taken another dimension as for stability, reliability and consistency. That does't mean it's free of bumps or ups and downs in performance. HW issues do exist but are small in proportion to total units out there. FW may also look a step back on occasion, but usually incorporate a lot of small improvements and in the long term is a sure - even though unsteady - walk towards safer, more reliable and stable overall system. If the quad is defective it shows, otherwise it's OK most of the time regardless of FW. Mine has been basically the same in all aspects despite FW or app version I put/use on it. This aspect hasn't changed since the P2: if your drone is good, it works. If it's broken, a FW won't fix nor break it.
All that is to say, fly with what you feel best. But don't get paranoid with what you read. If your quad is X or Y firmware-wise and flying fine, stop looking for "issues" and "flaws" and ways to "fix" them, wondering if rolling back of updating would fix some "issue", real or imaginary. It's OK to seek for more stable performance or even improvements. But in a healthy way, not messing with it all the time to fix something that may or may not even be there. Or something that is being amplified by collective paranoia. If you don't trust DJI then go for the competition, there's quite a few good makers our there. But what's the point in keeping a Mavic or Phantom while being totally suspicious of everything they say, do or put out about their own products?
Aside real issues, which are basically equipment failure which are also quite uncommon and should be dealt by DJI in warranty, Care or whatever, these things should be just used and there's usually a lot more room for pilot/operator improvement than FW filling.
In other words, fly more and worry less. Life's too short
We tend to look for consistencies (or inconsistencies) all the time as a way to validate (or otherwise) our assumptions (or even a declared feature), but that's not the best way to approach this. It is basically and above all essentially an inconsistent ecosystem that's heavily dependent on HW-FW integration. But truth is bugs are minor if we take into account how advanced and capable these aircrafts are. It's not a TV or DVD set, it's a semi-autonomous, long-range flying machine with RT video downlink. Very intuitive and easy to use but still, with many windows for pilot and operator error in all phases (pre, during and post). It's safe to assume most issues, if not accidents, stem from or are related to those.
From the P3 and beyond, quad flying has taken another dimension as for stability, reliability and consistency. That does't mean it's free of bumps or ups and downs in performance. HW issues do exist but are small in proportion to total units out there. FW may also look a step back on occasion, but usually incorporate a lot of small improvements and in the long term is a sure - even though unsteady - walk towards safer, more reliable and stable overall system. If the quad is defective it shows, otherwise it's OK most of the time regardless of FW. Mine has been basically the same in all aspects despite FW or app version I put/use on it. This aspect hasn't changed since the P2: if your drone is good, it works. If it's broken, a FW won't fix nor break it.
All that is to say, fly with what you feel best. But don't get paranoid with what you read. If your quad is X or Y firmware-wise and flying fine, stop looking for "issues" and "flaws" and ways to "fix" them, wondering if rolling back of updating would fix some "issue", real or imaginary. It's OK to seek for more stable performance or even improvements. But in a healthy way, not messing with it all the time to fix something that may or may not even be there. Or something that is being amplified by collective paranoia. If you don't trust DJI then go for the competition, there's quite a few good makers our there. But what's the point in keeping a Mavic or Phantom while being totally suspicious of everything they say, do or put out about their own products?
Aside real issues, which are basically equipment failure which are also quite uncommon and should be dealt by DJI in warranty, Care or whatever, these things should be just used and there's usually a lot more room for pilot/operator improvement than FW filling.
In other words, fly more and worry less. Life's too short
I understand your point of view and I totally agree with you.
But let's suppose you ride an expensive car, you paid a considerable amount of greens on it. And then someday, for a safety issue, the brand make a recall (we'll assume it's a fw upgrade for our purpose) and right after you leave the garage your car starts to misbehave, suddenly you notice some glitches. What do you do?
Go back to the place where they do the service, right?
That's what I (or some of we) tried to do.
We have a great machine, with all that technology built in, as you well mentioned, and now it's not 100% reliable anymore.
I'm not so worried about everything but many of us here bought this flying camera for fun, and we aren't actually having fun with it due to some *improvements* that is not working well anymore.
I'm sure Dji is working on it. It's a reliable company with great products. We all know that.
So if my experience trying to downgrade the fw failed, I have nothing left to do but wait for a new version... or buy another compatible device like an iPhone or iPad.
Kind regards
But let's suppose you ride an expensive car, you paid a considerable amount of greens on it. And then someday, for a safety issue, the brand make a recall (we'll assume it's a fw upgrade for our purpose) and right after you leave the garage your car starts to misbehave, suddenly you notice some glitches. What do you do?
Go back to the place where they do the service, right?
That's what I (or some of we) tried to do.
We have a great machine, with all that technology built in, as you well mentioned, and now it's not 100% reliable anymore.
I'm not so worried about everything but many of us here bought this flying camera for fun, and we aren't actually having fun with it due to some *improvements* that is not working well anymore.
I'm sure Dji is working on it. It's a reliable company with great products. We all know that.
So if my experience trying to downgrade the fw failed, I have nothing left to do but wait for a new version... or buy another compatible device like an iPhone or iPad.
Kind regards
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If you want to downgrade the firmware in the Mavic and the remote to .400 just use DJI Assistant 2 which can be downloaded from their website.
Rob
Rob
AlexSP
Well-Known Member
That´s exacty what I said: if the drone shows signs of malfunction, of course it should be taken to DJI. But it´s been like that with DJI drones since the P1: every FW release spawned a wave of complaints about "new glitches". Once or twice it was true, the new FW brought small problems for some machines, but most were already showing unstable behavior beforehand. Good ones flew fine regardless of FW version. If something has changed it´s the performance: a lot better in every way since those early Phantoms!
When the P3 came out and these flying cams became more popular, this got amplified 10 fold and reached paranoia levels on forums.It´s worse now with the Mavic. I´m not saying problems don´t exist. It´s new technology, DJI is only 10 yrs old and overwhelmed with demand. Not the best combination of factors. Of course that doesn´t count for an excuse, much less that we should accept it and bag our dissatisfaction. But kinda explains what we´re dealing with here and the level of expectation that shold be brought to the table.
Anyone expecting 100% reliable performance is better off changing game. This is basically RC hobby in a fancy packaged, Apple-like, consumer friendly style. In other words, according to my experience (been into RC for yrs) this is the most we get in reliability when it comes to flying quads for this price and type. I don´t mean it´s little or unreliable, but 100% is just not realistic at this point.
As for your last sentece... In my opinion you should be using an iOS device indeed. Don´t shoot the messenger - I know this might hurt some sensible Android feelings here - but it´s been already well estabilished that for whatever reason performance is considerably more stable with iDevices. To stay with DJI UAVs, I´ve been using iPads and iPhones across the board since 2013 and had zero issues with Inspires, Phantoms and Mavics. Again, regardless of FW or app used.
Well said sir.
I'm newbie in this quad environment, even in RC modelism. I saw all these Dji products being launched since then and I had no idea what they are capable to do even watching hundreds of videos on YouTube. You have to mess with them day by day.
The Mavic is my first drone and today is my 31th day with it. Only 18 flights since then.
I'll not extend this thread with my silly concerns but I have to thank you for your words.
Regarding Apple devices I guess you—and all the community—are right but I live in Brazil and nothing is that so easy or cheap to achieve.
Thanks again.
I'm newbie in this quad environment, even in RC modelism. I saw all these Dji products being launched since then and I had no idea what they are capable to do even watching hundreds of videos on YouTube. You have to mess with them day by day.
The Mavic is my first drone and today is my 31th day with it. Only 18 flights since then.
I'll not extend this thread with my silly concerns but I have to thank you for your words.
Regarding Apple devices I guess you—and all the community—are right but I live in Brazil and nothing is that so easy or cheap to achieve.
Thanks again.
AlexSP
Well-Known Member
Yep, keep flying and experimenting and learning. And it's not silly to be concerned. That's fine. I acknowledge there's more than just "fun" at stake here. Namely, the safety of others around us, not to mention ourselves. But to be cautious and observant is one thing. To be paranoid with a normally working (which doesn't necessarily means "perfect") drone in anticipation, or worse expectation for potential issues, is another.
It's OK to move between FW versions and all but keep in mind that experience has shown messing around too much with calibrations, rollbacks, updates, etc. doesn't translate into a more stable performance, and could in fact be counterproductive. Last time I did a compass cal on my oldest P3P was early 2016. Same for all my drones: the first good one remains in and that's it. I see folks trying to calibrate IMUs and compass on their new P4s and Mavics all the time in hopes this will exorcise the flyaway and crashing spirits, or improve significantly a feature or perhaps correct a small recurring issue. But this could in fact do the opposite.
If you look for issues you're sure to find. As I said these are consumer drones. They're not perfect, it's a "work in progress" and FW updates are a significant part. I know it's harder for newbies but it's important to take a breath and try to discern between the actual condition of the drone, so not to get caught in the FW paranoia. Be critical, be skeptical in both ways, and be careful. Is it really flawed? If so, send back to DJI. If not, relax and go fly it. For fun.
It's OK to move between FW versions and all but keep in mind that experience has shown messing around too much with calibrations, rollbacks, updates, etc. doesn't translate into a more stable performance, and could in fact be counterproductive. Last time I did a compass cal on my oldest P3P was early 2016. Same for all my drones: the first good one remains in and that's it. I see folks trying to calibrate IMUs and compass on their new P4s and Mavics all the time in hopes this will exorcise the flyaway and crashing spirits, or improve significantly a feature or perhaps correct a small recurring issue. But this could in fact do the opposite.
If you look for issues you're sure to find. As I said these are consumer drones. They're not perfect, it's a "work in progress" and FW updates are a significant part. I know it's harder for newbies but it's important to take a breath and try to discern between the actual condition of the drone, so not to get caught in the FW paranoia. Be critical, be skeptical in both ways, and be careful. Is it really flawed? If so, send back to DJI. If not, relax and go fly it. For fun.
Hi Alex
While I agree with most of what you said, the idea that most of the machines had problems before is not very accurate. Mine for instance has no problems, no matter which version I use. What is a problem is the way DJI has implemented changes.
Let me give you a few examples of what they did in .400 vs .500 .
____________________________
In .400 for most people indoors you had a few sats and a few red bars and the craft was in Atti mode. If you took off you knew what you were getting into.
In .500 you get the same amount of sat and Bars but now they are Green and it's in GPS mode. If you try to fly with those 5-6 sats and 3 bars you are most likely going to get a nasty surprise when it flips into Atti mode mid flight.
_____________________________
In .400 you had a point during the flight when the signal bars would drop and the video would start to slowly breakup. You could continue flying for a fair amount more before things got so bad that you either turned around or knew that in a few more feet it was going to lose signal and RTH.
In .500 you don't reach as far as before and the signal starts to drop and then a bit further you get massive video breakups that are almost instantly followed by loss of signal and an RTH.
______________________________
With .400 the VPS seemed to work properly.
With .500 we know it does not work properly.
_______________________________
In .400 Nag screens for updating the NFZ Database were almost non existent. I have actually never seen one in .400
In .500 every time I power it on it tells me to connect to the internet and update the NFZ database because the "Database is Low".
______________________________
In .400 Full up on the throttle aborted a forced Landing event.
In .500 the only way to abort it is to go into sports mode. You try to remember to hit the sports mode button when your 18" off the water and descending.
______________________________
Rob
With the DJI Assistant 2, you can downgrade in <5 min. I've not tried it with the phone/app, but considering firmware UPgrades take 30 min, I'm guessing the USB cable route is a lot faster - and probably better on the components (not sitting overheating for 30 min).
I was one of those who noticed a dramatic difference when going from .400 to .500. I am on android 4.0.5. I experienced exactly the same kind of rapid/sudden disconnect/video loss and RTH in areas I hadn't before.
I posted a separate thread on this, along with a poll. While the majority did NOT report the same issue, a surprising number (something like 40%) did see a reduction in range.
I downgraded to .400 but left the app at 4.0.5. Not only did my situation not improve, it got worse. The video feed started getting split screens where half was live, the other have was delayed, then rainbow colors sprinkled in. I went back to .500. Perhaps I should have tried .400 and downgrading the app.
Ultimately my situation improved when I replaced my DJI USB cable. In fact, I thought that was the totality of my problem. But, after a few more flights, I realized my range was still greatly reduced.
I now fly with the HD info on the screen. The quasi spectrum analyzer that shows where noise is goes from nearly flat-line (which indicates perfect signal conditions) to 90% and peaking across the range - instantly. It'll flicker back and forth, while image transmission bitrate goes from around 10mbps to 0.5mbps. This is in an area where I flown since November, with no such problems.
I was one of those who noticed a dramatic difference when going from .400 to .500. I am on android 4.0.5. I experienced exactly the same kind of rapid/sudden disconnect/video loss and RTH in areas I hadn't before.
I posted a separate thread on this, along with a poll. While the majority did NOT report the same issue, a surprising number (something like 40%) did see a reduction in range.
I downgraded to .400 but left the app at 4.0.5. Not only did my situation not improve, it got worse. The video feed started getting split screens where half was live, the other have was delayed, then rainbow colors sprinkled in. I went back to .500. Perhaps I should have tried .400 and downgrading the app.
Ultimately my situation improved when I replaced my DJI USB cable. In fact, I thought that was the totality of my problem. But, after a few more flights, I realized my range was still greatly reduced.
I now fly with the HD info on the screen. The quasi spectrum analyzer that shows where noise is goes from nearly flat-line (which indicates perfect signal conditions) to 90% and peaking across the range - instantly. It'll flicker back and forth, while image transmission bitrate goes from around 10mbps to 0.5mbps. This is in an area where I flown since November, with no such problems.
AlexSP
Well-Known Member
Hi there Rob, thanks for your explanation.
Now, let's break it down and have a closer look, if you don't mind. I'm not preaching here, not an apologist. I don't work for DJI in any way and I suffer from the same ills every other DJI UAV owner does (less-than-stellar CS, shady tech releases and explanations, and even occasional scary, inexplicable quad behavior - everything, though never a lost AC due to failure). Just trying to learn and improve, all for the sake of a funnier, richer UAV experience so to speak.
Points 1 and 2 are unproved, or at least conjectural. I may have a different experience and so and so, i.e. it proves nothing. As I said RC signal and satellite count is highly variable even in seemingly similar conditions. Lots can change, and if we think of it... satellite count indoors...Well, that is not exactly a reliable measure of performance, much less such small alleged decrease in performance.
Even though FW parameters can alter GPS (and also signal) performance, I can't see how or why that would happen, considering logic: 1) DJI has no interest in decrease safety or performance of their ACs - I'd argue that evidence and the breadth of their work indicates the opposite in fact, and perhaps the single factor that brough DJI to what is it now: the incredible, still unmatched GPS and RC performance, especially from the P3 on; 2) DJI is a fast-moving company, look at their release and improvement rate; 3) DJI has an awesome GPS/RTK system (RTK not being the case with Phantom and Mavic lines but still...). Very precise, reliable and stable. Not flawless much less perfect, just really very very good and advanced. That's the result of good HW + FW.
I guess the same can be said about signal transmission: not perfect, but certainly the most advanced and reliable at this price and range of drone. No other company has come even close. Those guys are good at programming too. Either way, over the yrs I've seen the exact same complaint every time a new controller version or FW version is released: performance dropping in various measures (from "minor" to "galactic" LOL), all without much - if any - scientific or repeatable evidence to back it up. I'm not disregarding personal experiences, just saying it does't work as evidence of a deeper, serious issue in those areas.
That's my point about all this, btw. The paranoia cloud we get into by reading unproven stuff rinsed over and over in forums, coupled with the usual variety and richness of conspiracy theories.
Point 3, and I don't know what you mean exactly by "does not work properly" - even though I agree this has been a problematic area (VPS) with the Mavic, for reasons still unknown (and not well explained by DJI). Still, the Mavic VPS system works as intended (properly?) in good light conditions. At least mine does, and based on all these yrs dealing with Phantoms (same old, same old...) I'd guess every "perfect" (as in good condition, not-faulty) Mavic does too.
As for points 4 and 5, DJI does indeed tend to mess about with the NFZ thing, and on occasion with commands and controlling buttons and all. NFZ is a grey area to me and many more, but I get the basics: don't fly around certain areas should be common sense. The focus issue is another that comes to my mind, same weird thing and way of deal with it from DJI camp. I wouldn't call it an issue per se, but it can be bothersome and yes I admit it can spell trouble. But then it's DJI, and for the most part these are "issues" that can be dealt with training, practicing, more attention or something along those lines.
Alex Point number one on the GPS signal was something I was very interested in and therefore tested it within a 15 minute period in the exact same location.
Using .500 I had 6 sats and 3 green bars and was in GPS mode. I downgraded to .400 and had 6 sats, 3 red bars and the drone was in ATTI mode. I think that clearly indicates that they just shifted the Q point downward to satisfy customer complaints.
Point number 2 is something that I have experienced along with a number of other people. I typically do a 3000ft flight out to a particular location starting from a beach side property. At the exact same spots that I had no problems before I suddenly had problems. I agree that many people are flying different altitudes and slightly different paths, but some of us in order to avoid certain locations and people we take off and fly the same path and altitude to get to spots we our interested in.
As for the VPS it is almost a confirmed bug in .500
The height seems to be incorrect and will read .2 or .5M when the craft is much higher up. It is the cause of some of the recent unintended landings that people have had.
As for NFZ, we are in complete agreement. Most of us understand how to fly safely and do not want DJI to cripple our craft in order to police a few idiots.
Rob
Using .500 I had 6 sats and 3 green bars and was in GPS mode. I downgraded to .400 and had 6 sats, 3 red bars and the drone was in ATTI mode. I think that clearly indicates that they just shifted the Q point downward to satisfy customer complaints.
Point number 2 is something that I have experienced along with a number of other people. I typically do a 3000ft flight out to a particular location starting from a beach side property. At the exact same spots that I had no problems before I suddenly had problems. I agree that many people are flying different altitudes and slightly different paths, but some of us in order to avoid certain locations and people we take off and fly the same path and altitude to get to spots we our interested in.
As for the VPS it is almost a confirmed bug in .500
The height seems to be incorrect and will read .2 or .5M when the craft is much higher up. It is the cause of some of the recent unintended landings that people have had.
As for NFZ, we are in complete agreement. Most of us understand how to fly safely and do not want DJI to cripple our craft in order to police a few idiots.
Rob
I heard about your case, at least I think it was your case that someone mentioned in an earlier post.
My thinking is that if your going to vary the power output levels or mess with the Q point you need to do it on both the aircraft and the controller. That's one of the reasons I wanted to downgrade both.
Don't even get me started on why DJI pushes updates via WiFi. Most companies, even ones that have equipment with WiFi connections always recommend that updates be done via Ethernet or USB. I have had Zero problems using DJI Assistant 2 and I have done some stuff that most people would not attempt. Like going back in versions then going back even further and then jumping to the most current version. I never had any long pauses or stuck updates, it always worked smoothly. (Knocking on wood really hard right now
)Rob
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I may well give that a try once I get a bit more "me" time. As to your GPS theory, keep in mind that number of sats and the bars shown on the app do not (and have not) accurately reflected the GPS_Health. I don't know if you saw the numerous threads about sudden atti mode when the app would go from showing 16 sats w/full bars, to 16 bars and one red tick. @BudWalker was (and continues to be) instrumental in helping to analyze various DAT files that show inexplicable drops from the highest GPS_Health of 5, to an atti-inducing 1 - in the span of a second.
I'm not saying that's what happened with in your trials between .500 and .400, but until they squish that bug, I think it may be a good idea to keep that possibility on the table.
Two third party apps have warned users that some modes of flight are problematic with the .500 firmware. This is not paranoia or conspiracy theory, but proven, tested, reproducible issues.
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