UAS Facility Map: Permissible altitude for authorization: 0 ft

[steve495]

So I'm getting my first drone next week and working to wade through the regulations. I'm currently near BDL (Class C), in a box where the permissible altitude for authorization is zero feet. 100 yards to the west, I'd be able to get to 100 feet, but that's no longer my yard. There is some open space 250 yards away where I should be able to do the LAANC approval process and fly up to 100 feet.

In short, I just want to fly around my yard at 25 to 50 feet altitude or so. Heck, no higher than the top of my house would be fine. The apps - Kittyhawk and AirMapp - indicate "Further coordination available up to 400 ft" within the app and their websites concerning the box I'm located in.

I'm assuming - as a recreational pilot - I can not get the approval through the LAANC process. I'm also getting the impression I might be able to get approval to fly in my yard, but it would require I go the Part 107 route. Am I correct here? I don't think it makes a difference, but I'm getting a Mavic Mini under 250 grams.

I found this on the FAA website.

To submit a "further coordination request" if you need to fly above the designated altitude ceiling in a UAS Facility Map, up to 400 feet. Applicants may apply up to 90 days in advance of a flight and the approval is coordinated manually through the FAA. (available to Part 107 pilots only)

So I assume I would need to go the Part 107 route, then apply through the FAADroneZone's Part 107 Dashboard for some sort of authorization to fly up to a specific altitude in my yard?

Would it be possible to get a long-term authorization for a year?

Just as a note, we are not located within an approach to any of the runways. (Well within the "V") We are 1.2 miles from the threshold to RWY 24 and 1.4 miles to the threshold of RWY 33.

 

[BigAl07]

First off WELCOME to the forum.

You "might" get something higher than the grid noted but you won't know until you try.

Also, the DroneZone option is supposedly coming to Recreational Flyers soon if it's not already. Patience Grass-Hoppa and I think all you're hoping for will come to happen.

 

[steve495]

Thank you for the welcome.

So although I thought I had to be Part 107, it looks like I was able to bypass the "warnings" and put a request in through DroneZone.

There was a limitation, I was only able to apply for one specific day instead of a block of days since BDL is LAANC enabled.

We'll see what happens...


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[Gryphon962]

Welcome.

You dont need 107 to use LAANC these days - try the Airmap app and see if it allows you to submit a flight plan for up to 100' in that area near you. You dont actually have to fly it. If it works, then you know that getting approval up to the height limit for the area is going to be near instant. However, applying for flight to above that limit might take weeks of notice, as its a manual process, and if you dont have 107 they will probably see no justification for you to fly there. No way will you get a open/year long waiver.

However, in general, its best to do all your flying away from your house and your neighbors else one of your neighbors is sure to hate you for it.

Also, when starting out, learning to fly, go somewhere wide open with no obstructions, houses, dogs, etc., not your backyard. You'll be glad you did.

 

[Thomas B]

Long term approvals are available. Mine took about a week... but it got me clearance for the 4 square mile area where I test and practice which does encompass the 5 mile radius area of 2 airports(1 local small planes, 1 a regional commercial airport)... for 2 years!

 

[Fly_Me_To_The_Moon]

I am curious as well. I'm in a 0 ft section, which is odd when there are several 7-10 story office buildings and hotels also within my same 0ft square.

All I would like to do is simply hover at 10-15 feet in a small, wide open area, to fine tune my controller and filter settings. Meanwhile, there are people in the adjacent park flying kites, playing softball, etc clearly sending objects much higher.

I've monitored the flights in this area and nearly all the planes are in the 500-1000 ft altitude range on descent and takeoff.

In my opinion, there should not be any 0ft restrictions except directly adjacent to a runway. Needs to have some 25ft areas out there.

 

[DanMan32]

I totally agree. I'm under approach over 4 miles from airport with grid showing 0. There are power distribution lines crossing said approach 1/2 mile towards the airport.
Some small planes seem to at low altitudes, but what I could catch on Flight Aware (most of the time they don't appear or appear late) they are much higher than they appear. Ceasnas within a mile or two of the airport are at least 600ft.

One mentioned considering fly aways, but I haven't heard of out of control UAS flying up, only out, with the exception of going to RTH height.

FAA wants compliance, but they need to be more practical. I understand not giving 400ft under approach but at least 100ft please.

 

[steve495]

Received an answer from FAA. Denied. I requested 1/10th NM in my yard at a maximum altitude of 50 feet. Details about my approximate location are earlier in this thread.

I was going to try to do a KittyHawk or AirMap request today identifying a location about 300 yards away that is within a 100-foot box, but it's already dark so I might try tomorrow or I'll just wait till next week when I get the MM.

Re: Certificate of Authorization or Waiver (COA) [WAIVER NUMBER]
Dear [NAME]
Thank you for submitting a 14 CFR Part 107.41 airspace authorization request through the automated FAA small unmanned aircraft (sUAS) authorization application portal.

We are unable to approve your authorization for the following reason(s):

1. Operations at altitudes above the UAS Facility Map (UASFM) are currently not authorized under Section 44809, Exception for Limited Recreational Operations of Unmanned Aircraft.

After careful review, we are unable to effectively mitigate the potential risk of your proposed operation within the BDL Class C Surface Area centered on [LAT/LON] to an acceptable level and, therefore, cannot approve your request at this time.

 

[Gryphon962]

Received an answer from FAA. Denied. I requested 1/10th NM in my yard at a maximum altitude of 50 feet. Details about my approximate location are earlier in this thread.

I was going to try to do a KittyHawk or AirMap request today identifying a location about 300 yards away that is within a 100-foot box, but it's already dark so I might try tomorrow or I'll just wait till next week when I get the MM.

It would be interesting to see what happened if a Part 107 license holder submitted exact same request. If their basis for denial is risk mitigation, they are on thin ice if they deny a licensed pilot.

 

[Mavic Mac]

I wonder if the recent crash of the B-17 at BDL influenced their decision ?

 

[steve495]

I wonder if the recent crash of the B-17 at BDL influenced their decision ?

I doubt that. The current rules seem clear to me. Recreational flyers will not get a waiver above the listed height on the UAS Facility Map, and I'm in a "zero feet" box. Then there is the quote in my OP indicating waivers are available, but only for Part 107 flyers.

Update on the 100 Foot Zone about 250 feet away - I tried this morning with AirMap and received an automated approval via text message in less than 60 seconds.

I had first tried for an approval with Kittyhawk. But there was an issue. Kittyhawk asked me a bunch of questions to "sign off" prior to submitting the request. Once of them asks me to verify the operator is a certified Part 107 pilot. I'm not, so I did not proceed. Did I set up my Kittyhawk account incorrectly or something?

Update: So I tried for LAANC authorization on the iPhone, and it asked a different set of questions and I was approved for a "flight" later today. During the process, it specifically asked if it was a recreational or Part 107 flight. See the second screenshot below.

Thanks in advance for tips on this.

 

[MavicFlyer]

Received an answer from FAA. Denied. I requested 1/10th NM in my yard at a maximum altitude of 50 feet. ...

If anybody is flying a manned aircraft at 50' off airport, my reaction would be that they are flying recklessly, unless there is a ==VERY== good reason. Just to put it in perspective, I have trees along the suburban street I live on that are almost 100'. Anybody flying a manned aircraft at that altitude should be more concerned about hitting trees, which can ruin their day far more than any of the drones that we fly!

I suggest that in the presence of ground obstacles, like buildings or trees, one should be able to fly a drone at or below the highest obstacle, within a radius, equal to the height of that obstacle - e.g. within 50 ft of a 50 ft tree.

I've seen some pilots who cruise around FAR too low to be safe, even if they are in compliance with the letter or the FARs. To be fair, these are a small minority....as is the number of SUAS pilots who are reckless, and causing the bad press that we receive.

Just a perspective from someone who's been in the cockpit, and standing on the ground...

 

[steve495]

... I suggest that in the presence of ground obstacles, like buildings or trees, one should be able to fly a drone at or below the highest obstacle, within a radius, equal to the height of that obstacle - e.g. within 50 ft of a 50 ft tree.

That sounds logical, and you would think common sense would rule here. But unfortunately, the rules are what the rules are now. I read through (some) of the proposed regulations with the questions from back in Feb/Mar/Apr this year. It seems like the focus was the ability to get faster approval for flying at night and over people. (Yes, it's more detailed and goes into more than that.)

Unfortunately, I did not see anything concerning changes allowing someone like me to fly a drone even 10 feet in the air in my yard. (I certainly could have missed such a proposal.)

Use case - I had shoulder surgery four weeks ago. Can't lift anything, so I can't put a ladder up to inspect the gutters at an elevation of about 15 feet. It would be super easy to fire up a small drone and take a look. Not allowed under federal law. (My neighbors would not mind one bit.)

 

[Fly_Me_To_The_Moon]

If anybody is flying a manned aircraft at 50' off airport, my reaction would be that they are flying recklessly, unless there is a ==VERY== good reason. Just to put it in perspective, I have trees along the suburban street I live on that are almost 100'. Anybody flying a manned aircraft at that altitude should be more concerned about hitting trees, which can ruin their day far more than any of the drones that we fly!

I suggest that in the presence of ground obstacles, like buildings or trees, one should be able to fly a drone at or below the highest obstacle, within a radius, equal to the height of that obstacle - e.g. within 50 ft of a 50 ft tree.

I've seen some pilots who cruise around FAR too low to be safe, even if they are in compliance with the letter or the FARs. To be fair, these are a small minority....as is the number of SUAS pilots who are reckless, and causing the bad press that we receive.

Just a perspective from someone who's been in the cockpit, and standing on the ground...

I think you misread his original post. He wants to fly in his backyard, which is 1.2 miles from the airport. Yet, they are classifying his home area as a 0 foot height restriction. He was requesting to fly 50' high, and no greater distance than a radius of 1/10th of a mile from his home (which I believe is the shortest radius selection in the system to request).

 

[steve495]

I think you misread his original post. ..,

Note he mentions “maned” aircraft flying at low altitudes.

 

[MrChris]

It would be nice if they would allow, as some other countries do, "sheltered flight" whereas you are staying below the surrounding, immediate structures and features.

For example where my house is the 5 mile radius line of the nearest airport and it's Class D airspace lands smack dab on the center of my house. Front yard is in a permissible 400' box, however it is a non-LAANC airport, my backyard is free and clear. But here in Washington we have big trees, really big. I have at least 5 trees in my yard in excess of 200' and our neighborhood has several at least 225'. I don't have a good spot in my back yard to launch from so I take off from my driveway roughly 4' from the boundary line and fly around the side of the house to the back yard about 5' high until I clear controlled airspace and then climb.

 

[DanMan32]

I'd like to see us allowed 10-20ft above trees. We'd need that for VLOS, as well as avoiding obstacles both during normal flight and RTH.