United States National Park Ban

[ColinF]

I’ll keep you posted if anything happens from that post on Facebook.

Thanks.

 

[sar104]

The National Park ban happened long before any “idiot” did anything. It was put in place before any wildlife was disturbed or a visitor was bothered. It was a knee jerk reaction implemented by bureaucrats who know NOTHING about drones or their negligible impact on the parks.

They have had negligible impact because they were banned. And they were banned because, even back in 2014 when they were relatively uncommon compared to today, there were complaints about noise and wildlife disturbance.

 

[ColinF]

I live near Yellowstone and visit often, alone or with guests. I DO NOT want to see or hear a drone while I am in the park. Drone use, as well as helicopter and fixed wing airplane flying is incompatible with the stated mission of the NPS (and my opinion). Everything someone wants is not therefore a right to it.

Using your logic, I could state the same in reverse and be equally correct.... everything someone does not want is not therefore a right to ban it.

You have a legitimate concern and my premise is that it is manageable with thoughtful regulation.

Everyone seems to take the notion of access to extremes. It does not have to be extreme with the correct controls in place.

 

[lawmann]

...or open it up to those with the FAA Remote Pilot Cert.

 

[DroningOn]

...helicopter and fixed wing airplane flying is incompatible with the stated mission of the NPS

And yet you and millions of others still happily visit but a plastic toy you can’t hear outside 200’ away will infuriate people and “ruin” everyone’s experience. Yeah right

 

[Jaspar]

The problem is how, though. Imagine that every camera that you see in the parks were a drone. That would obviously be both obnoxious and somewhat dangerous. I suspect that the parks will go to some kind of restricted location, permit-based system eventually, but not anytime very soon.

How about allowing drones half an hour before opening and after closing.

 

[DroningOn]

They have had negligible impact because they were banned. And they were banned because, even back in 2014 when they were relatively uncommon compared to today, there were complaints about noise and wildlife disturbance.

IF, and it’s a big if, there were any complaints made in 2014 prior to the ban we all know they were made by the same type of hysterical ignorant people who confront flyers in public claiming drones can see through walls and spy on their teenage daughters.

 

[Drone on]

How about a compromise?
Maybe certain early morning and late evening time slots? This could be before the parks are open to the general public.
Or, certain sections of the park, when that is more applicable.
Or certain days of the week when the parks are less busy.
Or, a combination of various options.
Or, dread I say it, open to licensed pilots to encourage getting licenses, which help flyers to understand the cause for concern.
How about a reservation program?
there could be many options as opposed to an all out ban.

 

[sar104]

How about allowing drones half an hour before opening and after closing.

Yes - that might work.

IF, and it’s a big if, there were any complaints made in 2014 prior to the ban we all know they were made by the same type of hysterical ignorant people who confront flyers in public claiming drones can see through walls and spy on their teenage daughters.

Your posts all seem to be the same - broad, sweeping assertions, entirely unsupported by any evidence, littered with ad hominems and straw man arguments, and with the constant underlying theme of how stupid anyone who disagrees with you must be.

 

[DroningOn]

Your posts all seem to be the same - broad, sweeping assertions, entirely unsupported by any evidence, littered with ad hominems and straw man arguments, and with the constant underlying theme of how stupid anyone who disagrees with you must be.

And I’m still waiting to see one piece evidence that anyone or any wildlife was disturbed..... anything? Anyone?

 

[ac0j]

On one hand, the parks are for everyone, on the other hand, the parks are reserves of natural beauty. Kept free from human interventions and on display as God intended for it to be seen. I do not think there is any reason for someone to think they HAVE to photograph it with a drone. Use a regular camera all you want. I would object to allowing drones during normal hours. However, I doubt the park service will staff for "after hours" park use just for drones.
As far as the level of pilot skill having something to do with getting permission, who gets to decide who the skilled pilots and or the stupid reckless pilots are?
NONE of them will admit, or even know if they are one of them.
Part 107???? Pffffft. Just because you can read sectionals and paid for the 107, doesnt make you any better at flying a drone than anyone else, or making better decisions about when, where, and how to fly. A couple of the dumbest flights I have read about on this forum were done by Part 107 pilots.
The LAW says the parks cant keep you out of the airspace above, all they can do is ban them from the property. BUT, you can bet if they could keep them out of the air they would. That is what the ban is meant to discourage, not the dorky looking people staring at remote controls standing all over the place..
There are still some reckless and or disrespectful people that fly in from outside anyway, often well beyond VLOS and illegally, just to prove they can fly in park airspace
. Because they "NEED" that picture to dump in their giant box of photos, or to mix in with the terabytes of other random photos they have stored.

If approximately half of drone owners here say stay out of the parks, what do you think the popular opinion would be from NON drone owners? There is Natural beauty everywhere. TONS of it is NOT in National parks, Most of it has never been seen. Those are the shots you should be seeking, not things that are the most photographed places on earth already.

 

[Drone on]

On one hand, the parks are for everyone, on the other hand, the parks are reserves of natural beauty. Kept free from human interventions and on display as God intended for it to be seen. I do not think there is any reason for someone to think they HAVE to photograph it with a drone. Use a regular camera all you want. I would object to allowing drones during normal hours. However, I doubt the park service will staff for "after hours" park use just for drones.
As far as the level of pilot skill having something to do with getting permission, who gets to decide who the skilled pilots and or the stupid reckless pilots are?
NONE of them will admit, or even know if they are one of them.
Part 107???? Pffffft. Just because you can read sectionals and paid for the 107, doesnt make you any better at flying a drone than anyone else, or making better decisions about when, where, and how to fly. A couple of the dumbest flights I have read about on this forum were done by Part 107 pilots.
The LAW says the parks cant keep you out of the airspace above, all they can do is ban them from the property. BUT, you can bet if they could keep them out of the air they would. That is what the ban is meant to discourage, not the dorky looking people staring at remote controls standing all over the place..
There are still some reckless and or disrespectful people that fly in from outside anyway, often well beyond VLOS and illegally, just to prove they can fly in park airspace
. Because they "NEED" that picture to dump in their giant box of photos, or to mix in with the terabytes of other random photos they have stored.

If approximately half of drone owners here say stay out of the parks, what do you think the popular opinion would be from NON drone owners? There is Natural beauty everywhere. TONS of it is NOT in National parks, Most of it has never been seen. Those are the shots you should be seeking, not things that are the most photographed places on earth already.

Dislike

 

[ac0j]

Dislike

Dont care

 

[Drone on]

Dont care

We know

 

[ColinF]

On one hand, the parks are for everyone, on the other hand, the parks are reserves of natural beauty. Kept free from human interventions and on display as God intended for it to be seen. I do not think there is any reason for someone to think they HAVE to photograph it with a drone. Use a regular camera all you want. I would object to allowing drones during normal hours. However, I doubt the park service will staff for "after hours" park use just for drones.
As far as the level of pilot skill having something to do with getting permission, who gets to decide who the skilled pilots and or the stupid reckless pilots are?
NONE of them will admit, or even know if they are one of them.
Part 107???? Pffffft. Just because you can read sectionals and paid for the 107, doesnt make you any better at flying a drone than anyone else, or making better decisions about when, where, and how to fly. A couple of the dumbest flights I have read about on this forum were done by Part 107 pilots.
The LAW says the parks cant keep you out of the airspace above, all they can do is ban them from the property. BUT, you can bet if they could keep them out of the air they would. That is what the ban is meant to discourage, not the dorky looking people staring at remote controls standing all over the place..
There are still some reckless and or disrespectful people that fly in from outside anyway, often well beyond VLOS and illegally, just to prove they can fly in park airspace
. Because they "NEED" that picture to dump in their giant box of photos, or to mix in with the terabytes of other random photos they have stored.

If approximately half of drone owners here say stay out of the parks, what do you think the popular opinion would be from NON drone owners? There is Natural beauty everywhere. TONS of it is NOT in National parks, Most of it has never been seen. Those are the shots you should be seeking, not things that are the most photographed places on earth already.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. You make relevant points and express reasonable concerns. However, I continue to believe that a compromise can be found. In the video I took, I did not bother anyone. The very few people that were there did not know I was there. Not one looked up or changed their behavior while I was there. This was because I flew at a time and date that there are very few visitors. I flew at altitude that they could not hear my drone over the ambient noise at a this park, nor would they notice the drone at the altitude I flew. As to the most photographed places in the world, I found no pictures or aerial videos like I captured and produced, with the exception of some rather sterile shots from the architect. Humans have unlimited creativity, and despite being the most photographed places in the world, there are new perspectives yet to be captured. Now granted, Steamtown is not Yellowstone in its beauty, it’s annual visitors, nor overall interest including having a large canon of aerial cinematography. But that is the point, I was reasonable about where I flew, when I flew, and how I flew. I followed every local regulation, every FAA rule, and yes, all the rules prescribed by the NPS. With the proper rules, a compromise could be made to allow limited access for, emphasis here, responsible drone operators. You allow only responsible pilots, and that is accomplished by creating hurdles for prospective pilots to jump through before they are allowed to fly. That will weed out most. Of course, there are always lawbreakers and people who don’t follow the rules. To address that, you increase the penalties. Make the risk versus reward calculation high. For the costs, you charge fees to those who want this privilege, and I also believe a private sector and government partnership would be possible and have benefits to both.

 

[tcope]

And I’m still waiting to see one piece evidence that anyone or any wildlife was disturbed..... anything? Anyone?

Feel free to use the search function for the many other times this same topic has been discussed. I posted it there. Also, you can feel free to search Youtube, which is what I did. Took a few seconds and I simply took the 4th video listed. Plenty of videos of people chasing animals with drones. Plenty. You won't find evidence if you hide from it. It is very easy to find if you simply open your eyes.

 

[tcope]

How about a compromise?
Maybe certain early morning and late evening time slots? This could be before the parks are open to the general public.
Or, certain sections of the park, when that is more applicable.
Or certain days of the week when the parks are less busy.
Or, a combination of various options.
Or, dread I say it, open to licensed pilots to encourage getting licenses, which help flyers to understand the cause for concern.
How about a reservation program?
there could be many options as opposed to an all out ban.

How about everyone can use a drone all the want in National Parks and they won't disturb anyone? That would work.

Bottom line.. hypertheticals can be debated here until the cows come home. It won't change one single thing. Not one. After this thread runs its course and dies out nothing will have changed.

For anyone who does not like the current rules, I'd recommend sending an email or letter to the NPS.

 

[ColinF]

How about everyone can use a drone all the want in National Parks and they won't disturb anyone? That would work.

Bottom line.. hypertheticals can be debated here until the cows come home. It won't change one single thing. Not one. After this thread runs its course and dies out nothing will have changed.

For anyone who does not like the current rules, I'd recommend sending an email or letter to the NPS.

I respect your opinion, and again, your concerns are valid. However, no one on this thread has made the statement to allow drones anywhere at any time. The people against are firm in their opinions, and the people that call for compromise are firm in theirs. All have very valid reasons on both sides. And yes, when this thread dies out nothing will change. My video is one person’s lonely call in the forest that will go nowhere.

 

[DroningOn]

Feel free to use the search function for the many other times this same topic has been discussed. I posted it there. Also, you can feel free to search Youtube, which is what I did. Took a few seconds and I simply took the 4th video listed. Plenty of videos of people chasing animals with drones. Plenty. You won't find evidence if you hide from it. It is very easy to find if you simply open your eyes.

I know full well that this subject has been discussed many times in the past. I have participated in many of those discussions. Since it looks like you have already identified many examples on YouTube of wildlife and people being disturbed in national parks, please post the links here so we are all looking at the same thing and can discuss. Maybe minds will be changed.

 

[Classic flyer]

I'm with you Colin - I think it's properly outrageous that we are banned by default from these places, when the remit of these services is to make the parks available to everyone. But I also can see how a park full of multirotors could be annoying to everyone else, and don't have much in the way of viable solutions to that problem. But I don't see why there couldn't be 3 days a month when multirotors are allowed, for example, or why they can't issue limited permits to keep the numbers down and allow it all the time - 5 multirotors flying for half an hour each in a space as big as Yosemite is hardly a massive disturbance to anybody I wouldn't have thought... after all planes fly overhead, there are even helicopter tours - why isn't the (vastly louder) noise of those a problem for example ?

Yes sir, the x number

I'm with you Colin - I think it's properly outrageous that we are banned by default from these places, when the remit of these services is to make the parks available to everyone. But I also can see how a park full of multirotors could be annoying to everyone else, and don't have much in the way of viable solutions to that problem. But I don't see why there couldn't be 3 days a month when multirotors are allowed, for example, or why they can't issue limited permits to keep the numbers down and allow it all the time - 5 multirotors flying for half an hour each in a space as big as Yosemite is hardly a massive disturbance to anybody I wouldn't have thought... after all planes fly overhead, there are even helicopter tours - why isn't the (vastly louder) noise of those a problem for example ?

You are making a straw man argument. Attributing a something to him he never said and then attacking that argument. How about permits that allow only a limited number at a time. The waits would be long, very long, but people could take videos. Or charge a very large fee, cutting down those who are not serious, or allowing only 107 permit holders. There are lots of ways to allow it.

For one, they could do it by a lottery system much like they do for hunting permits on National Park land...just a thought...be safe, fly smart