Upgraded from Spark to MP1, not very happy, M2 way to go ?

[webvan]

I've been flying the Spark for 18 months (after flying the Parrot AR Drone, Beebop 1 and 2) and it's been mostly great, with many terrific shots, panos and Spheres. Still I often felt constrained by the battery life and the connection so I recently got a DJI refurbed MP Alpine Combo and while the connection has been great (cuts through forests !) , the battery upgrade is nice (but not as spectacular as I thought) upgrade and flying fast with roll stabilized video is cool, I'm just not getting good shots. For a start the 9 picture panoramas are centered on the horizon, not where I was aiming at like with the Spark and the Spheres have been completely washed out (need to try manual) and the single shots are just not as sharp (yes I did tap to focus).

Have these "issues" been addressed on the M2 ? Sure it's a lot more expensive and heavier but if these issues are fixed I suppose I could try to "justify" it with its extra features like Hyperlapse, Asteroid, better active tracking thanks to its extra sensors.

Thanks for any input, especially if you've been down that road before.

 

[Deleted member 91193]

I am not aware of any systemic issues like that and I have never experienced it on either my M2P or Z... have you done anything with the camera or lense?

 

[PaulRC]

I've been flying an MP for a couple of years. When I started out, I had to do a lot of learning to get the shots right. But I get great photos/videos out of my MP so it might just be a setup/configuration issue that you need to tinker with.

 

[brett8883]

I've been flying the Spark for 18 months (after flying the Parrot AR Drone, Beebop 1 and 2) and it's been mostly great, with many terrific shots, panos and Spheres. Still I often felt constrained by the battery life and the connection so I recently got a DJI refurbed MP Alpine Combo and while the connection has been great (cuts through forests !) , the battery upgrade is nice (but not as spectacular as I thought) upgrade and flying fast with roll stabilized video is cool, I'm just not getting good shots. For a start the 9 picture panoramas are centered on the horizon, not where I was aiming at like with the Spark and the Spheres have been completely washed out (need to try manual) and the single shots are just not as sharp (yes I did tap to focus).

Have these "issues" been addressed on the M2 ? Sure it's a lot more expensive and heavier but if these issues are fixed I suppose I could try to "justify" it with its extra features like Hyperlapse, Asteroid, better active tracking thanks to its extra sensors.

Thanks for any input, especially if you've been down that road before.

The biggest difference between the Spark camera and the Mavic Pro is that the Spark camera is pretty well an automatic point and shoot device. Its like your iPhone camera where it has software which will adjust camera settings automatically to get you a prettty decent shot no matter what you do.

With the Mavic Pro it functions a bit more like a DSLR in that the automatic settings are an after thought because its expected to be used as a manual camera most of the time. So there's some learning curve if you aren't used to using a manual camera and even if you are there aren't many cameras that have a fixed aperture like the Mavic Pro. So therefore you don't just need to understand how to use a manual camera you have to understand how it works so you can make adjustments that wouldn't be necessary with adjustable aperture. This includes getting ND filters and understanding how to use them.

Yes you have to use manual exposure to get a good pano with the Mavic Pro manual focus as well.

The Mavic 2 Pro DOES have an adjustable aperture, probably the biggest upgrade IMO. It gives you much more flexibility in getting a good shot. Its noticeably quieter as well.

I get 22 mins on my Mavic Pro seemingly no matter what I do. If you aren't getting that you may need to look at the health of your batteries or how you are flying it. I see people flying their Spark full throttle full pitch in sport mode and I think to myself you can't do that with a Mavic Pro its just not quite as agile as the Spark due to its larger size.

 

[Thomas B]

Agree with above by brett8883. Use manual... set ISO to 100 and shoot for exposure of 1/30 to 1/60 at 30 fps, then adjust and consider filters. Use focus to get desired depth of field.

 

[webvan]

Thanks for the input guys.

Yes 22' is the max I've gotten (without sports mode) and don't get me wrong, like I wrote, it's a nice upgrade from the Spark that gets me around 14' but it still ends a too quickly ;-)

I've been using DSLRs (and before that SLRs) for 20+ years so I'm not worried about manual settings and I could work on that even if it's hard to give up on the P&S of the Spark. I'll definitely try another Sphere with manual AE this time. I've also noticed that Spheres use only 34 shots vs 46 on the Spark and ICE has more alignment issues.

It seems that for 9 picture panos there's no way to have them centered on where you're pointing at when you start the pano. It's hard to understand why given the much more advanced gimbal that the MP1 has compared to the Spark. I'm not sure if this is no longer an issue on the Mavic 2 ?

 

[Thomas B]

Thanks for the input guys.

Yes 22' is the max I've gotten (without sports mode) and don't get me wrong, like I wrote, it's a nice upgrade from the Spark that gets me around 14' but it still ends a too quickly ;-)

I've been using DSLRs (and before that SLRs) for 20+ years so I'm not worried about manual settings and I could work on that even if it's hard to give up on the P&S of the Spark. I'll definitely try another Sphere with manual AE this time. I've also noticed that Spheres use only 34 shots vs 46 on the Spark and ICE has more alignment issues.

It seems that for 9 picture panos there's no way to have them centered on where you're pointing at when you start the pano. It's hard to understand why given the much more advanced gimbal that the MP1 has compared to the Spark. I'm not sure if this is no longer an issue on the Mavic 2 ?

Regarding the last point. I fly Spark, MPP, and M2P... on my M2P I do have the issue with pianos that believe you are describing.

 

[webvan]

Ok so like on the MP and unlike on the Spark a 9 picture panorama on the M2P (or Zoom) will not be centered on where you're aiming when you start it but will be centered around the horizon ? How strange, I wonder if the MA is the same !

 

[Thomas B]

Ok so like on the MP and unlike on the Spark a 9 picture panorama on the M2P (or Zoom) will not be centered on where you're aiming when you start it but will be centered around the horizon ? How strange, I wonder if the MA is the same !

Of course, with the large sensor on the M2P most will allow reasonable cropping to get what you want.

 

[brett8883]

Thanks for the input guys.

Yes 22' is the max I've gotten (without sports mode) and don't get me wrong, like I wrote, it's a nice upgrade from the Spark that gets me around 14' but it still ends a too quickly ;-)

I've been using DSLRs (and before that SLRs) for 20+ years so I'm not worried about manual settings and I could work on that even if it's hard to give up on the P&S of the Spark. I'll definitely try another Sphere with manual AE this time. I've also noticed that Spheres use only 34 shots vs 46 on the Spark and ICE has more alignment issues.

It seems that for 9 picture panos there's no way to have them centered on where you're pointing at when you start the pano. It's hard to understand why given the much more advanced gimbal that the MP1 has compared to the Spark. I'm not sure if this is no longer an issue on the Mavic 2 ?

Nice ok so because there is no Aperture adjustment the filters are gonna have to work as your aperture. They do exactly the same thing btw, reduce the amount of light to the sensor. So to get more depth of field in a shot you’ll need to use a darker filter and a longer shutter.

I’ve also recently discovered that in camera mode changing the aspect ratio to 4:3 gives you a higher resolution then 16:9 which uses only part of the sensor.

I’ve also been using Litchi to do panos(an invaluable app that I think everyone should have) and it allows to you to control every part of the pano sequence. I personally like a lot of depth of field in my shots so I programmed Litchi to wait 2 seconds before taking each pano photo and 1.5 seconds before moving to the next photo. This gives the camera time to settle which is important if using a longer shutter speed. You can also control the #of rows and columns and the field of view with the pano. Must better then DJI Go 4’s “pano for dummies” settings ?

 

[webvan]

Might give Litchi a try then for the panos.

 

[Drbobk]

Nice ok so because there is no Aperture adjustment the filters are gonna have to work as your aperture. They do exactly the same thing btw, reduce the amount of light to the sensor. So to get more depth of field in a shot you’ll need to use a darker filter and a longer shutter.

I’ve also recently discovered that in camera mode changing the aspect ratio to 4:3 gives you a higher resolution then 16:9 which uses only part of the sensor.

I’ve also been using Litchi to do panos(an invaluable app that I think everyone should have) and it allows to you to control every part of the pano sequence. I personally like a lot of depth of field in my shots so I programmed Litchi to wait 2 seconds before taking each pano photo and 1.5 seconds before moving to the next photo. This gives the camera time to settle which is important if using a longer shutter speed. You can also control the #of rows and columns and the field of view with the pano. Must better then DJI Go 4’s “pano for dummies” settings ?

"So to get more depth of field in a shot you’ll need to use a darker filter and a longer shutter." Not sure about this...Depth of field is a function of the lens focal length (and that's not changing with a filter) and the aperture - a smaller aperture (higher number, like f11) gives greater depth of field. A Neutral Density filter cuts the amount of light, so if in any automatic mode, you will need to have a wider aperture (smaller number, such as f4) to let in the same amount of light. A wider aperture will result in shallower depth of field. Or if you leave the aperture unchanged, and let the shutter stay open longer, that will give the correct amount of light but will do nothing for depth of field.

 

[brett8883]

"So to get more depth of field in a shot you’ll need to use a darker filter and a longer shutter." Not sure about this...Depth of field is a function of the lens focal length (and that's not changing with a filter) and the aperture - a smaller aperture (higher number, like f11) gives greater depth of field. A Neutral Density filter cuts the amount of light, so if in any automatic mode, you will need to have a wider aperture (smaller number, such as f4) to let in the same amount of light. A wider aperture will result in shallower depth of field. Or if you leave the aperture unchanged, and let the shutter stay open longer, that will give the correct amount of light but will do nothing for depth of field.

It’s possible I didn’t use the correct term but the op is using a Mavic Pro which has a fixed aperture and fixed focal length. So neither of those things can changed.

Like I said maybe not the right technical term but since a far away object reflects light in a more dispersed angle then a closer object it takes longer for the same amount of light to collect on the sensor with the same clarity from a further object then a nearer object. So the exposure time must be increased to allow the light from the far off object to accumulate on the sensor.

Same idea as using ND filters for astrophotography where by using a long exposure the additive effect of the light on the sensor reduces the atmospheric haze and allows greater clarity of the light from a distant object.

Not sure what this is called.

 

[ff22]

It’s possible I didn’t use the correct term but the op is using a Mavic Pro which has a fixed aperture and fixed focal length. So neither of those things can changed.

Like I said maybe not the right technical term but since a far away object reflects light in a more dispersed angle then a closer object it takes longer for the same amount of light to collect on the sensor with the same clarity from a further object then a nearer object. So the exposure time must be increased to allow the light from the far off object to accumulate on the sensor.

Same idea as using ND filters for astrophotography where by using a long exposure the additive effect of the light on the sensor reduces the atmospheric haze and allows greater clarity of the light from a distant object.

Not sure what this is called. View attachment 70950
View attachment 70951

If that is your Delicate Arch - phenomenal. Even if it is not yours...

 

[brett8883]

If that is your Delicate Arch - phenomenal. Even if it is not yours...

I wish! I do have a Delicate Arch but it’s kinda a let down compared to that one

 

[webvan]

So can someone tell me if the M2 Zoom centers a 9 picture panorama on the current view even if it's tilted down ? The Spark does that but the MP doesn"t, it tilts up to the horizon. Thanks !

 

[Paul2660]

The ND filter will not change the DOF, but it will change the exposure. So for the fixed aperture of the MP1, a ND filter will allow video at optimum frame rates. As even with the ability to change the shutter speed, you can't get the needed frame frame for higher quality video.

For stills, on the MP1, I rarely use a ND filter as I am not looking to lower my shutter speed (only would think about that if working water), however I do at times add a CL-PL, but you are limited with that also since you have no ability to rotate the CL-PL as you move the camera. In photography, most common use is to allow for longer exposures at a set aperture, say a 1 second or 5 second exposure at ISO 50 at F 11. The other issue you have with the MP2 is the aperture and diffraction, you really can't take the aperture much past F 4.5, if you are looking for the best overall details.

To the OP, I am not current on the MP1 firmware, about 1 version back. As I recall the 9 shot pano feature centers the gimbal even if the gimbal is pointed down. But as I recall the Spark did the same thing but it's been a long time since flew my Spark. When I did the pano's with my Spark, it always centered the gimbal, so I guess they have added a firmware update. I still do 9 shot panos with both the Mp1 and MP2, but since I prefer raw, I do all the shots manually, in 5 exposure brackets. Gives me the best image quality to create the pano.

I have done quite a bit of astro photography, both Milky Way and or Star Trails. For my work, a ND filter would not help at all. You are looking for the fastest lens, F 1.4 ideal, nothing to darken the shot. For Milky Way, you are looking for exposures in the 5 sec to 17 sec range, and Star trails with the moon for illumination in the 1 minute to 2 minute range, (stacking exposures) But that's all for a different forum. Recently a few companies have come out with UV style filters to help remove city light pollution, but these are not ND style filters, i.e. they do not increase exposure time.

Paul C

 

[webvan]

Thanks, I can't remember the Spark recentering the gimbal vertically for 9 shot panos, it's always used the current position as the center. Your manual method would fix the problem on the MP1 of course ;-)

 

[ff22]

I wish! I do have a Delicate Arch but it’s kinda a let down compared to that one View attachment 70958

If I recall, that's from the other side of the "rift" rather than on its plateau. I've been to both perspectives a couple of times. Great National Park.

 

[brett8883]

If I recall, that's from the other side of the "rift" rather than on its plateau. I've been to both perspectives a couple of times. Great National Park.

Yep sure is!