VLOS ?

[Cookedinlh]

yes it is obligatory to have an observer within earshot of the pilot when using goggles to fly the drone ,but that does not improve how far the drone can be seen by the observer ,because of their size the drone is at some point going to be so small that it cant be seen with the naked eye

Should note that in Canada OBSERVER is optional . .nowhere in CARs PART IX does is say you MUST have an observer except FPV flight and night Flight . . . but that IF you use an Observer you must be able to communicate 901.20 (1) . . or if you fly FPV 901.38 and and no night NVG without observer or pilot NOT using NVG 901.39 (2)
UAVs can be flown legally with pilot only but if you want to see it at a mile or more without an observer then just get a machine with a bright spotlight like the Mavic 2 Entrerprise See my example HERE with Stobes only and see below with M2E Spotlight

I've also used FVLOS (Forward Visual Line of Sight) to overcome that 1500-2000ft visual by the pilot. . . just station an Observer within 2000ft or so and fly out to the OBS till they see it and then OBS watches the UAV for (sense and avoid) while the Pilot focuses on the photography . . then visual hand back to pilot on the way home. Very effective and just need radio communications between PLT/OBS to be legal (901.11PIC or OBS must have UAV visual at all times (VLOS) ) . . key word is OR

and For the Record . . .
Here is VLOS (no observer) Legal at a mile . . Only in Canada you say . . .by the way the spotlight is a lot more VISIBLE than these photo's suggest. . . easy to see at over a mile in daylight.

 

[BokiFly]

What VLOS means?
That drone must be so close that I can see it, even if I'm not looking at it because I'm looking at the screen?
Or it means that I must have my eyes on the drone all of the time?

In the second case you can't plan and compose recordings.
And there almost isn't any amount of fun flying like that, by looking at the drone all of the time.

I look at the drone all of the time if I'm practising some maneuvers, for example in the park, on 10-20m altitude.

But if I want to really enjoy flying, and that primarily means to look from the drone's eye(s), then I always fly at higher altitude than any surrounding objects, but not too high for helicopters or planes (usually at altitude 30-50-80m). Then I look at the drone on takeoff, and I look at the drone at landing (hand catch). But between that, and that can be 20+ minutes, I rarely lift my eyes from the screen.

Concerning perspective for the drone and surroundings, it depends on current situation (mine position, position of the drone, position and size of the surrounding objects, distances), in some cases it's definitely better to look at the drone, but in others it's much safer to look at the screen. For example when I want to go through some branches on the tree, or fly low over tree, I can much better determine if there is enough space to do that if I look at the screen (but need to be careful of the gimbal angle, than can confuse perspective if not properly set).

I usually look at the drone before it gains safe altitude (over any surrounding objects), and I usually don't go much higher than that, and after that I can enjoy looking at what he sees.

And Mavic Mini really doesn't help with his size and colors. Actually all Mavics have colors that blends them into the sky. On the other hand orange Autel EVO 2 is probably easier to spot.

 

[SpitFire]

I do the same thing old man Mavic does, only my strobes are on the back legs. I have two of them that are bright light, have to use a very dark pair of sunglasses to activate them. The firehouse strobes blink on and off alternately, and help me to see the drones location. I always do VLOS, always fly manually, Not as adventurous as some of the younger ones, and until things change abide by the rule.

 

[dronerdave]

My point is, why the hell would I need to worry about avoiding manned aircraft while flying at an altitude of 70 meters? I believe a manned Aircraft flying at 70 m is in far more danger hitting something else like power lines or windmills other than my drone!

Because (in the USA) aircraft often fly at low altitudes in rural areas and I don't want a mid air with something like a crop duster. In more populated spots Police and life flight helos are also are buzzing around below 400' as well. I don't understand why people think full size aircraft never fly below 400 feet. I've already had a full sized aircraft miss my quad by only a few feet when it was about 50 feet away from my landing pad. I frantically tried to get out of his way but it was way too close of an incident to my liking even though I wish I had a video of it. This was while flying at a local lake in the middle of nowhere. My AGL was about 40' and so was he. The look on his face was classic as he zoomed by. I will say you probably have a more of a chance to see and avoid at further distances than close by to your home point but that's a different issue. I often fly off an active runway and those planes coming in to land can be on you so quickly that it gives you very little time to react. Sure there are places (terains) that most manned aircraft wouldn't normally be below 500' such as populated areas or barely above tree top levels but the rules have changed and it's more black and white these days. Flying BVLOS is a poor choice and one reason why the rules are getting more strict.

 

[ajkm]

You get far better depth perception when looking at the screen, every time I’ve crashed drone it has been by flying visual line of sight looking at the drone believe it or notLike the previous oP wrote you get a far better picture of your surroundings through the display when you are passed 100 feet or whatever

But you have zero situational awareness other than the limited view the camera is providing. The method needs to be eyes on the drone except for very quick glances at the controller or device.

 

[old man mavic]

Which strobes do you use for that, and how do you have them mounted? Visible to camera? (Can you post a pic?)

they are strobon Cree and the mounts are from Mike singer see pic

 

[itismo]

Because (in the USA) aircraft often fly at low altitudes in rural areas and I don't want a mid air with something like a crop duster. In more populated spots Police and life flight helos are also are buzzing around below 400' as well. I don't understand why people think full size aircraft never fly below 400 feet. I've already had a full sized aircraft miss my quad by only a few feet when it was about 50 feet away from my landing pad. I frantically tried to get out of his way but it was way too close of an incident to my liking even though I wish I had a video of it. This was while flying at a local lake in the middle of nowhere. My AGL was about 40' and so was he. The look on his face was classic as he zoomed by. I will say you probably have a more of a chance to see and avoid at further distances than close by to your home point but that's a different issue. I often fly off an active runway and those planes coming in to land can be on you so quickly that it gives you very little time to react. Sure there are places (terains) that most manned aircraft wouldn't normally be below 500' such as populated areas or barely above tree top levels but the rules have changed and it's more black and white these days. Flying BVLOS is a poor choice and one reason why the rules are getting more strict.

Thank you for the explanation but aren't there rules for manned aircraft as well to not fly below certain altitudes unless taking off or landing?

 

[Earthman]

I dont see how that puts anyone else in danger.

Exactly, you need to be able to see! Hence, VLOS.

 

[Cookedinlh]

Just spotting a drone when you are flying a slow helicopter . ..even when you know what it looks like . . and exactly where it is . . .is harder than you think . .
Close Encounters

 

[RonW]

this subject has been and still is a bone of contention for many people ,it does not matter how good or bad your eyesight is ,VLOS is a requirement imposed on us by legislation
a persons VLOS distance is dependant on many things apart from how good their eyesight is,weather conditions,background colouration being just a couple
i quite often loose sight of my drone when i am out at around 1000ft, i am watching it ok, then i look down at the screen to compose a shot or check my status levels on the screen,
and when i look back up to see the drone I struggle to find it, my method of helping to regain VLOS, is to have two white strobes on the front legs ,so if i cant reestablish VLOS i yaw the drone till it is facing me and then i am able to see the strobes flashing

Hello, OMM, have you tried Litchi with your ipad? You can set it to 'talk' to you through ipad speakers all the info required; height, speed, batt level, etc. Works well for MP's, I know Litchi won't work with your MA2 though.

 

[old man mavic]

Hello, OMM, have you tried Litchi with your ipad? You can set it to 'talk' to you through ipad speakers all the info required; height, speed, batt level, etc. Works well for MP's, I know Litchi won't work with your MA2 though.

thanks for the info

 

[dronerdave]

Thank you for the explanation but aren't there rules for manned aircraft as well to not fly below certain altitudes unless taking off or landing?

Yes, but from my limited knowledge there are exemptions. This is how crop dusters are allowed to fly 5 feet above the ground when they spray. Also over water pilots often drop low which is legal. That is what happened to me. The guy came out from over the water and up a channel where I was flying. While he was close to me, he was never over people, vehicles, or any boats. I don't know the exact rules but since that close call, I've seen this same guy flying low over the lake and keep aware he might show up a different day.
In town I have a hospital landing pad across the street and those choppers often come in below 400' as they approach which (depending on the wind) is right over my home.

 

[Rojillio Santoro]

I think the FAA or whoever came up with the acronym VLOS could have used something less ambiguous. I usually think of a line in the mathematical sense as infinitely long, so for a long time I thought I was ok as long as there were no obstructions between my eye and my drone. I found out I was breaking the law when I told a guy who worked for the FAA I'd flown my drone over a mile. Why don't they just say the drone must be within sight and forget the line?

 

[Hamish McSporran]

Thank you for the explanation but aren't there rules for manned aircraft as well to not fly below certain altitudes unless taking off or landing?

Most places have exemptions for law enforcement and EMS aircraft too. And don't forget that military pilots pretty much make the rules up as they go.

 

[Cookedinlh]

Yes, but from my limited knowledge there are exemptions. This is how crop dusters are allowed to fly 5 feet above the ground when they spray. Also over water pilots often drop low which is legal. That is what happened to me. The guy came out from over the water and up a channel where I was flying. While he was close to me, he was never over people, vehicles, or any boats. I don't know the exact rules but since that close call, I've seen this same guy flying low over the lake and keep aware he might show up a different day.
In town I have a hospital landing pad across the street and those choppers often come in below 400' as they approach which (depending on the wind) is right over my home.

If you get to know some of them . . . this is how you fly with crop dusters

 

[Cookedinlh]

Yes . . Flixed wing civilain arcraft are supposed to be above 500ft by 1 mile off the end of the runway they used to take-off and not supposed to descend below 500ft AGL before 1 mile in final approach . . .Helicopters are a different thing and many heli jogs are often below 500ft . . so they are the ones to watch out for

 

[butterflyslicer]

I think you have posed an interesting question but I have to wonder how many people will be inhibited to answer because it would be an admission of guilt. I'll be interested to read the responses.

I use binoculars and if need be, a telescope .
NOT GUILTY.

 

[old man mavic]

I use binoculars and if need be, a telescope .
NOT GUILTY.

very thought provoking post hoping to get some sort of reaction ,or maybe just an attempt at some humour ,who knows

 

[Cookedinlh]

You are allowed to use binoculars or telescope . . . .heck use a radar if you have one . . just not if that's the only means to keep track of your drone. . . for VLOS , ONE person has to be able to see it UNAIDED at all times. I've never considered that looking down at your screen occasionally count's as losing track of it. . . even using an observer who is doing his job properly, watching for obstacles and other aircraft as well, looks away occasionally.

So as long as someone can see it that counts. but that brings up the technicality of "Who's an observer?" . . and it can't be just a friend who likes watching or anyone around, they have to be designated as "a trained crew member" (see definitions) and responsible for certain things besides looking at the drone. Observer is mentioned about 17 times in the rules but the only rule that requires an Observer is 901.38 FPV flight. The section for "Observers" is 901.20 and there are 4 sub paras that describe their duties and restrictions

Still . . nowhere in the Canadian rules are they required for VLOS flight

 

[itsneedtokno]

China is your observer.

One of the best exports they have is DJI .

Westerners love the product .

We map the terrain for them.

They flick a switch and make ALL your drones inoperable.

Next move is a chinese family moves into your house.

...hmmmm

I think you are posting on the wrong forum...

This is MAVICpilots after all.

if you are so against DJI, what are you doing here?

Just wondering