Warnings About Regional and Burning Man Events

[mobilehomer]

Your location says Flagstaff, AZ. That would infer FAA is the controlling authority. It would help tremendously if you specified WHICH Burning Man event you are referencing!

 

[Flashheart]

I thought that E-2s are role specific, ie pilot and radar/IFF operator are seperate roles. I'm guessing those AIM-9s you mounted were the B/C variants? To mount a pair of AIM-9s on a CH-46E or HH-46E? is about as DACT as it gets. I'm guessing you had a B variant with an uncaged seeker using the 'growl' of the IR sensor as the cue for launch?

 

[Dogpilot]

I think I have mentioned I pretty much do my events overseas now. However, almost all the events, US based Burning Man has the same rules and very similar enforcement. We kind of all talk, not done in a vacuum. I travel around quite a bit in my work so I like the overseas events much more. The US based one is just too big and has far too much regulation for my taste. So I have passed doing it, aside from Renegade burn in 2021, since 2018. The no photo policy without consent is fairly consistent in all the events all over the world.

 

[Kywon McCain]

So if I were to have my drone confiscated, what would I have to go to get it back?

 

[Cafguy]

There are many large events with lots and lots of spectators and participants right here in Southern California. I also do survalience and security for large oilfield companies ( you know fence line checks and whatnot) watching from way up high. As for these huge Events I know of No one that has the authority to fly a drone remotely close to one of these without direct permission and all the applicable clearances, and thats still flying pretty far away ( remember zoom ). If you violate this rule Will you get caught? Most likely (Remember the authorities have eyes everywhere at these things, and choppers with zoom too.) If you do get caught. WELL, Get ready for a craptastic life of litigation, Becoming poor, and feeding some lawyers kid. That alone should make anyone keep the drone at home. The Laws where you Did this work are indeed different because here the only person that would confiscate your drown would be law enforcement and they are more likely to take your batteries and give you a court Date. But then comes the F.A.A.
P.S. You keep speaking of personal privacy but persons in public do not have those same personal privacy rights if you don't wish to be filmed in public I would suggest staying home.

 

[Torque]

P.S. You keep speaking of personal privacy but persons in public do not have those same personal privacy rights if you don't wish to be filmed in public I would suggest staying home.

The difference between a public event at a public venue vs a private event. The same laws that allow concerts, restaurants, etc to post signs prohibiting videos and photography.
You're entering into a contract - you agree to follow their rules, and they agree to let you into the event . Any event that requires a ticket or is held on private property isn't truly a "public" event, and the property holders or event organizers can set their own rules.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Weird perceptions here. My Medivac was coming in at dusk for a patient, as I said unfortunately passed. Had the Helicopter hit one of the drones operating illegally there, it would have killed the crew. Our pad is only .5 kilometers from the event. So let us take the Billionaire and just the one real twit drone guy. Billionaire was trying to crash the event. The BM philosophy is nobody is any better than others. Don't go for the animal farm thing with others being more equal than others. No ticket, jump the gate. Hmm what is a fellow to do. He tried plenty of intimidation on us. We use the Ranger philosophy, swarm. However we stood firm, as did the attending Rangers and the Box office perimeter folks. It was my call ultimately as it was an airspace issue, with the ticket issue from box office weighing in.

This is an excellent example where stern measures are appropriate.

What does it have to do with a violation of rules by someone ignorant of them at US Burning Man that results in absolutely no harm to people or property? Your rhetoric here suggests you think they should be treated the same as the jerk in your example above. Should your license be revoked for speeding?

And old saying: Punishment should fit the crime. There's even a constitutional requirement of that.

And so far, you seem utterly blind to this distinction. Its why you shouldn't be doing enforcement at all, and has me pondering registering a complaint with the organizers and participating LE, presenting these posts as my basis for concern.

I will be attending this year.

 

[mobilehomer]

How about for us in the US, post a copy or link to the TFR?

 

[Droning on and on...]

How about for us in the US, post a copy or link to the TFR?

Yes, please. I couldn't find it, and would like to see what it says.

 

[Dogpilot]

Again, I do not do the US event any more. If you go to the airspace portion of their webpage, you will find the links for the NOTAMS and the rules specific for that year. TFR's are different from NOTAMS, which is where it will be, the FAA publishes the NOTAM about 1 month before the event. It is however an airport operating area 88NV, and as I said has actual FAA controllers. Hey give Larry a ring at the Reno FISDO, he comes out there as well. The airport area at Burning Man USA encompasses the event, so same rules as operating in an airport go as well. In South Africa and the other international events, for our legal with waivers in place, licensed and insured. I have to stand there with the airband and make the announcement on our UNICOM frequency the location operating height and duration of that specific flight.

Look, I think many of you are simply not getting what is going on. There is no way you can not land at the event if you fly a drone, they are too big. Once you touch down ergo, private. While I the air, yes FAA regulates but only in the USA. On the ground it is the use agreement in the USA for the event and the BLM. In the US you will have several different competing and overlapping jurisdictions. I suggest you go, after looking about on the airport web are for the links, fly and see what response you get from BLM LE, or Pershing County Sheriff or the Park Ranger LE or the FBI guys. Yes the Rangers will be there, but once LE is there we walked away as do the Rangers. There is a pilot blog associated with the airspace, where you can pose questions and you will get a whole lot of competing answers as most of the pilots know nothing about drone operations.

In our case at this last event I was working, private land, held in trust, once you land, our rules, no way to take off and land and not be on our land. In the Air CAA rules which are very specific about gatherings. As for when we confiscate. You can come to our VOC, with is where our administrative activities are and claim your drone after the event has ended. Which in our case is Sunday midnight or Monday morning. As for the US, I no longer have any idea. Depends on who took lead at the specific time.

If you want to go to BMORG Reno FISDO and mention this I have no problem with that. I have no dog in the US fight. I don't think you will be any happier with their response, most likely even more angry. However I think many are thinking the FAA has any influence beyond the borders of the US. They do not, kind of why there are different countries, get to set their own rules. I only put this out to let folks know and hopefully check first. I am not the king or any kind of LE, but I do enforce the rules once you land, we have, again private land. I would prefer people read the information pages prior to coming, so I never, ever have to do this. I deal with the regular airplanes normally, this stuff was thrust upon me by management, I have way more important and useful to the general attending population things to do. Yes I do have a Commercial Drone License as well, as I use them in my work, but not overseas, since I cannot get a license to operate in most countries, so I contract with a local operator. I do follow the rules.

 

[DoomMeister]

I actually threw out a not-to-be-named billionaire out for trying to enter illegally by landing his private helicopter on our Medivac Pad this event as well.

I know who this sounds like. Makes expensive EV’s and likes Mars.

 

[Felix le Chat]

I know who this sounds like. Makes expensive EV’s and likes Mars.

The OP makes a clear distinction in one of the "you will comply" posts regarding "illegal" drones and the "official" drone. If 'safety and security' were indeed the motivation driving the stamp-down on any punter who has a mini 3 in their hippy-bag, how does the "official" drone operator feel about contravening one of the two foundation legal restrictions governing all drone flights? You know.... The one about NEVER flying over crowds of uninvolved individuals. The only thing this sounds like is a policy to have a commercial monopoly on 4K footage.

 

[thispilothere]

The only thing this sounds like is a policy to have a commercial monopoly on 4K footage.

Agreed. This whole thread reads like agenda and feelings enforcement rather than actual law enforcement.

 

[DoomMeister]

Agreed. This whole thread reads like agenda and feelings enforcement rather than actual law enforcement.

When I looked up to see what Burning Man was I was shocked to find out that it was supposed to represent anti corporatism, anti establishment Ian, and freedom of expression. This thread makes it sound like just the opposite of what it started out as. The bigger it gets the more it seems to become what it is supposed to oppose.

 

[thispilothere]

When I looked up to see what Burning Man was I was shocked to find out that it was supposed to represent anti corporatism, anti establishment Ian, and freedom of expression. This thread makes it sound like just the opposite of what it started out as. The bigger it gets the more it seems to become what it is supposed to oppose.

Ha! Sounds right.

 

[Vic Moss]

When will the FAA issue a TFR. It's not on the site yet. There are currently no TFRs in Nevada at all.

 

[hiflyer201]

Just returned from AfrikaBurn. I am one of the Airspace Managers, for fixed wing, rotary wing and reluctantly function as the drone police. Just to let folks know, if they plan to attend any of the worldwide or US based Burning Man events there are specific rules, which prohibit any but our one or two permitted, possessing waivers, insurance and proper local licensing from FAA/CAA to film at the events. This year we started very aggressive policing of illegal drone flights. We captured 15 drones this year at AfrikaBurn alone, ranging from a Mavic 3 Pro to an assortment of 2's and minis. We do eventually give them back to the owners, but make it a colossal pain in the a$$ to teach them a lesson. A few argue with us, and I simply point out the nearby law enforcement officer, who lurks close by. Choice: we confiscate it, you eventually get it back, or face the local closed airspace, flight over large events, no commercial local license, no waiver and no insurance criminal violations. These charges will add up to many thousands in fines, many automatic, permanent loss of equipment and possible jail time. Depends on the local laws in that country.

We are in the process of buying the latest flight ID tracking devices, but we seem to be doing quite well with hand-talkies and eyeballs. What goes up must come down. So In next years events, we will be electronically logging and passing to local CAA, violators. It is a safety hazard to the participants and a violation of their right to privacy and a severe hazard to our medivac helicopters and fixed wing traffic. Spread the word, we would prefer not to have this as a primary job, but

Just returned from AfrikaBurn. I am one of the Airspace Managers, for fixed wing, rotary wing and reluctantly function as the drone police. Just to let folks know, if they plan to attend any of the worldwide or US based Burning Man events there are specific rules, which prohibit any but our one or two permitted, possessing waivers, insurance and proper local licensing from FAA/CAA to film at the events. This year we started very aggressive policing of illegal drone flights. We captured 15 drones this year at AfrikaBurn alone, ranging from a Mavic 3 Pro to an assortment of 2's and minis. We do eventually give them back to the owners, but make it a colossal pain in the a$$ to teach them a lesson. A few argue with us, and I simply point out the nearby law enforcement officer, who lurks close by. Choice: we confiscate it, you eventually get it back, or face the local closed airspace, flight over large events, no commercial local license, no waiver and no insurance criminal violations. These charges will add up to many thousands in fines, many automatic, permanent loss of equipment and possible jail time. Depends on the local laws in that country.

We are in the process of buying the latest flight ID tracking devices, but we seem to be doing quite well with hand-talkies and eyeballs. What goes up must come down. So In next years events, we will be electronically logging and passing to local CAA, violators. It is a safety hazard to the participants and a violation of their right to privacy and a severe hazard to our medivac helicopters and fixed wing traffic. Spread the word, we would prefer not to have this as a primary job, but rather the occasional dufus to deal with.

Sounds self imposed

 

[hiflyer201]

The US Burn has a controlled actual air traffic area with FAA contract employees in the tower, look on the charts, 88NV

Wrong

 

[hiflyer201]

Sounds like cult rules to me

 

[Droning on and on...]

When I looked up to see what Burning Man was I was shocked to find out that it was supposed to represent anti corporatism, anti establishment Ian, and freedom of expression. This thread makes it sound like just the opposite of what it started out as. The bigger it gets the more it seems to become what it is supposed to oppose.

No, it's pretty much what you've read about. I'm a repeat attender

Frankly, I'm starting to suspect this guy's phony. I've never seen anything like what he's talking about at BM. Any enforcement volunteer group that had the attitude he's showing here and acted the way he's talking about enforcement is so counter to the spirit of the attendees I expect he and his gang would have a MASSIVE confrontation with dozens of attendees who would not like this sort of behavior.

I've had plenty of contact with the relatively few (compared to the number of attendees) LEOs and they're nothing like this guy, or how he describes them.

Some serious insecurity here, maybe steroid abuse. It's notable that he's ignored the objections to his Gestapo enforcement attitude, but instead doubles down on warning us all not to fly – something no one's been arguing for.

I don't think he's even reading our responses. I'm forming an impression that he's one of those 5'5" guys with a raised truck with earth mover tires on it.

I had no plans to, but I will be bringing my Cheerson CX-10WD this year, and flying it around our camper, because of this guy. Come get it, I look forward to the confrontation, and may even know the LEO you drag along.

I suspect it will come out very differently than he claims, because my understanding of the FARs and local laws I will not be violating anything.

Government power is not absolute. You can't be prohibited by law from eating, for example, no matter how much some jerk wants to. There's something called rights. The FAA has only the regulating authority Congress gives it. My reading of the FARs prohibits regulation of toys in the CX10 class. The state of NV has no laws regulating such tiny, innocuous toys.

I call BS on much of what has been claimed here. Not all, but the manner in which violators are handled. These "enforcers" are private citizens, can't lay a finger on you or your property. You don't even need to stick around and wait with these jerks for a real LEO to come over.

If you do, however, I'm confident in an entirely different outcome than has been asserted here. I've gotten to know (as in seen every year, chatted a little – my wife and I are huge fans and supporters of LE) several of these guys. They're all about de-escalation, not punishment. If there's been no egregious violation, I suspect the violator will be informed, told not to do it again, and left to enjoy the rest of the event.

This is how other problems are handled... drunkenness, unsanctioned bonfires that get a bit too large, speeding on electric scooters, and a dozen other nuisances that always occur.